• ‘Men’s rights’ group defends posters claiming women lie about rape
    670 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41433034]You never said your hypothetical wife was dangerous, you just said that in California it was "impossible" for you to get your kid if you get a divorce[/QUOTE] In my personal hypothetical situation, she was dangerous. But I am automatically considered a pedophile/dangerous/unstable in california, and you calling me vindictive for no reason and assuming I would be a bad father is proof of that train of thought. Ask anyone from cali who's impartial, they will affirm that it's really, really hard to get custody as a father.
[QUOTE=katbug;41432914]63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census) – 5 times the average. 90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes – 32 times the average. 85% of all children who show behavior disorders come from fatherless homes – 20 times the average. (Center for Disease Control) 80% of rapists with anger problems come from fatherless homes –14 times the average. (Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26) 71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes – 9 times the average. (National Principals Association Report)[/QUOTE] congrats on not reading the italics, all of this happens because women are still facing a big pay gap and still have to deal with childcare on top
[QUOTE=katbug;41433072]In my personal hypothetical situation, she was dangerous.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but this is hilarious, especially outside of context.
[QUOTE=katbug;41433072]In my personal hypothetical situation, she was dangerous.[/quote] Then it might be a good idea to make this clear instead of relying on the telepathy that you believe us feminists have. [QUOTE=katbug;41433072]But I am automatically considered a pedophile/dangerous/unstable in california[/quote] oh my fucking please Also, why is the hypothetical woman dangerous? Are you saying that [b]all[/b] women involved in divorces are dangerous?? (Not as funny when someone else is doing it eh)
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41433104]Then it might be a good idea to make this clear instead of relying on the telepathy that you believe us feminists have.[/QUOTE] "You should know she was dangerous... you feminazis know everything!!"
[QUOTE=Eltro102;41433086]congrats on not reading the italics, all of this happens because women are still facing a big pay gap and still have to deal with childcare on top[/QUOTE] The pay gap was explained earlier as a lack of ambition. In general, women get payed the same as men for the same work. Childcare is covered by child support.
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;41433060]man how quickly this thread turned in to a bunch of shitheads on both sides of the fence yelling and flinging their shit at each other while screeching like animals it's great[/QUOTE] this was extremely helpful and has moved the thread swiftly towards a resolution thank you
[QUOTE=katbug;41433129]The pay gap was explained earlier as a lack of ambition.[/QUOTE] Oh wow you cracked the fucking case.
u know how you're meant to believe that there's a well reasoned argument for every side well you look at mractivism and then you thing naaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
[QUOTE=katbug;41433129]The pay gap was explained earlier as a lack of ambition. In general, women get payed the same as men for the same work.[/QUOTE] ok well unless you can prove that women inherently have less ambition (you cant because they dont) then im sorry but im going to have to chalk it up to sexism
[QUOTE=katbug;41433129]The pay gap was explained earlier as a lack of ambition. In general, women get payed the same as men for the same work. [/QUOTE] cite this shit up [quote]Childcare is covered by child support.[/quote] not very well, and even if it is covered adequately not many women take advantage of it because a) pay gap! b) pressure to keep working by other people
[QUOTE=katbug;41433129]The pay gap was explained earlier as a lack of ambition. In general, women get payed the same as men for the same work. Childcare is covered by child support.[/QUOTE] There are two figures for the pay gap, adjusted and unadjusted. The "70 cents on the dollar" thing is the unadjusted one and not a very good indicator of anything (for [b]this[/b] debate, I could go into a big tirade about how pregnancy is treated as a punishment using that number though!) but the adjusted figure takes all of this into account (women working less hours, easier jobs, etc) and you're still left with 7-10% that can't be explained by anything except discrimination
[QUOTE=katbug;41433129]The pay gap was explained earlier as a lack of ambition. In general, women get payed the same as men for the same work. Childcare is covered by child support.[/QUOTE] This makes no sense. There's no statistic evidence suggesting that non-white, non-male workers are "less ambitious" than their privileged counterparts. Most of the studies on wage gap seem to suggest that the reason the wage gap is so prevalent is because the statistics are tallied falsely. The AAUW's studies, for instance, put male lawyers and female librarians into the same category, as well as economic majors and social science majors ("other white collar" and "social sciences," respectively). However, if you recalculate the gap, you still see that there is an 8- 10 cent difference. Which, as Huffington Post suggests, is from men's superiority in negotiation skills (aka an unfair skill gap). Likewise, "lack of ambition" and poor statistics does not explain for non-whites and trans* people. [editline]12th July 2013[/editline] PS - Look at my list above and tell me if you've ever gotten a two page e-mail explaining why you shouldn't wear shorts or t-shirts in the summer. I would honestly like to know.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41433138]this was extremely helpful and has moved the thread swiftly towards a resolution thank you[/QUOTE] thank you for your kind words ;-)
[QUOTE=katbug;41432700]The bare fact that "men's rights" is in quotes in the OP shows that men have really no voice.[/QUOTE] Actually that's because most self-proclaimed "men's rights" groups are really just guys upset that women are getting more rights and / or not fucking them. They share a huge overlap with "nice guys", who have "nice" in quotes because they're only self-proclaimed as nice. But most of the time online MRAs will only bring up men's troubles as a way to try and discredit feminists.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41433250]PS - Look at my list above and tell me if you've ever gotten a two page e-mail explaining why you shouldn't wear shorts or t-shirts in the summer. I would honestly like to know.[/QUOTE] As an objective observer, that seems to be a very weird part of the world you live in. Then again, the same people sending you such mails likely consider northern/eastern Europe morally bankrupt, so what do I know...
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;41433060]man how quickly this thread turned in to a bunch of shitheads on both sides of the fence yelling and flinging their shit at each other while screeching like animals it's great[/QUOTE] And what's really important is that you feel superior to [I]everyone.[/I] If you're not going to actually make a useful contribution, why are you even in the thread? -edit- that's what I get for trusting automerge
[QUOTE=Reimu;41433250]This makes no sense. There's no statistic evidence suggesting that non-white, non-male workers are "less ambitious" than their privileged counterparts. Most of the studies on wage gap seem to suggest that the reason the wage gap is so prevalent is because the statistics are tallied falsely. The AAUW's studies, for instance, put male lawyers and female librarians into the same category, as well as economic majors and social science majors ("other white collar" and "social sciences," respectively). However, if you recalculate the gap, you still see that there is an 8- 10 cent difference. Which, as Huffington Post suggests, is from men's superiority in negotiation skills (aka an unfair skill gap). Likewise, "lack of ambition" and poor statistics does not explain for non-whites and trans* people. [editline]12th July 2013[/editline] PS - Look at my list above and tell me if you've ever gotten a two page e-mail explaining why you shouldn't wear shorts or t-shirts in the summer. I would honestly like to know.[/QUOTE] No, I haven't. But I have been told to "suck it up" in nearly every situation (not including this one) whenever I get vocal about pretty much anything. I never said discrimination against both sides does not exist, only that the discrimination levels were basically equal. And from the horror story you've put forward, that really just sounds like that person has a shitty family and deals with assholes. And 4chan isn't really a good example, they're pretty much just offensive to everyone. Everything else in that is sexism though, and there's no way to defend it. Though it sounds like you're in a less-than first world country?
[QUOTE=katbug;41433502]only that the discrimination levels were basically equal. [/QUOTE] which is wrong
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41433520]which is wrong[/QUOTE] I can't even advocate for my opinion without being attacked. What does that tell you about equality.
[QUOTE=katbug;41432700]I've really never seen feminists do anything that promoted general equality, only quality of life for women.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI6dQaUhKMY[/media] if you dont know gloria steinem then you know absolutely nothing about feminism lmao
[QUOTE=katbug;41433548]I can't even advocate for my opinion without being attacked. What does that tell you about equality.[/QUOTE] should probably tell you that your opinion is wrong and goes against equality
[QUOTE=katbug;41433548]I can't even advocate for my opinion without being attacked. What does that tell you about equality.[/QUOTE] attacked?? people are disagreeing with you because you are straight-up, real talk, 100% wrong that discrimination levels are "basically equal"
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41433573]attacked?? people are disagreeing with you because you are straight-up, real talk, 100% wrong that discrimination levels are "basically equal"[/QUOTE] Explain how this is even remotely true in the first world.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41433183]There are two figures for the pay gap, adjusted and unadjusted. The "70 cents on the dollar" thing is the unadjusted one and not a very good indicator of anything (for [b]this[/b] debate, I could go into a big tirade about how pregnancy is treated as a punishment using that number though!) but the adjusted figure takes all of this into account (women working less hours, easier jobs, etc) and you're still left with 7-10% that can't be explained by anything except discrimination[/QUOTE] Having complete equality is completely ridiculous. Every group, no matter the distinction, will have some difference. As I cited earlier, there are bigger pay gaps between short and tall people than between men and women.
[QUOTE=katbug;41433601]Explain how this is even remotely true in the first world.[/QUOTE] think about it like this: if you think heterophobia is a comparable issue to homophobia, then you'd be woefully wrong
[QUOTE=katbug;41433601]Explain how this is even remotely true in the first world.[/QUOTE] well for starters note the number of incumbent elected heads of state that are women: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_female_heads_of_state[/url]
[QUOTE=just-a-boy;41433436]As an objective observer, that seems to be a very weird part of the world you live in. Then again, the same people sending you such mails likely consider northern/eastern Europe morally bankrupt, so what do I know...[/QUOTE] Actually, I live in a very liberal area. I'm in Northeast US, which is one of the more open-minded areas of America. Granted, that situation was very weird and really stood out. But slut shaming and clothes shaming happens a lot across the country. [QUOTE=katbug;41433502]No, I haven't. But I have been told to "suck it up" in nearly every situation (not including this one) whenever I get vocal about pretty much anything. I never said discrimination against both sides does not exist, only that the discrimination levels were basically equal.[/quote] I just wanted to say that I respect what you have to say below, but also that being told to "suck it up" is pretty modest compared to what feminist activists often have to go through. One of which includes hostile and confrontational males constantly harassing women offline and online. As well as creepy individuals acting as rape apologists. I get a free pass since I'm a male feminist, so I don't really have to deal with any of the negative perks of social justice. That isn't necessarily true for my feminsit friends who are women and work heavily within the feminist coalitions on campus. [quote]And from the horror story you've put forward, that really just sounds like that person has a shitty family and deals with assholes. And 4chan isn't really a good example, they're pretty much just offensive to everyone. Everything else in that is sexism though, and there's no way to defend it. Though it sounds like you're in a less-than first world country?[/QUOTE] At first it sounds like it, but actually many Latino cultures have a major problem with misogyny within families. I hate him as a writer, but Junot Diaz's "This is How You Lose Her" really covers how Dominican society is so ass-backwards. Puerto Rican culture has a very similar climate, where patriarchy and misogyny run deep within family blood lines. My friend's story is pretty much mirrored across my college campus's Latino community. 4chan isn't the best example in some ways, but it's also a haven for misogyny, racism, and overall regressive social attitudes. To a certain extent, its flamboyancy towards being offensive dulls the blow. But, then again, 4chan wasn't the only place where she faced sexism based on her gender. Also thanks for agreeing that this was sexism. A lot of these were really upsetting to deal with throughout the year, so it's nice to see that you respect that they were shitty for the women involved.
[QUOTE=sgman91;41433620]Having complete equality is completely ridiculous. Every group, no matter the distinction, will have some difference. As I cited earlier, there are bigger pay gaps between short and tall people than between men and women.[/QUOTE] well this an extremely defeatist attitude. even if complete equality is unattainable doesnt mean it shouldnt be striven for and moved towards
And yes, I'm in a 3rd world country. New Jersey :v:.
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