‘Men’s rights’ group defends posters claiming women lie about rape
670 replies, posted
[QUOTE=katbug;41434607]You pulled sexism out of thin air.[/QUOTE]
There isn't an ironicat large enough
I take pride in that. I'm actually the most privileged person in my group of friends - I'm basically the only kid that is white, male, straight, cisgender, and middle-class all in one - and yet I'm the biggest social justice advocate :v:.
Wait wait. Why is everyone joking and being legitimately funny.
So I stop watching, and you all stop fighting eventually? Come on guys. This ceased to be entertaining, spawn another thread.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41436134]I take pride in that. I'm actually the most privileged person in my group of friends - I'm basically the only kid that is white, male, straight, cisgender, and middle-class all in one - and yet I'm the biggest social justice advocate :v:.[/QUOTE]
I'm white, (upper?)-middle class, straight, cisgender, etc.
I've got no quarrels with gay people, transgender people, women, or anyone else, really. The only people that bother me are those who are self-righteous, and people who are just sorta dicks.
The only quarrels I have with women in society (on my side, being male I cannot speak for women) is the fact that I can't really tell anyone how I feel without being told "deal w/ it" while I'm obligated to hear all their problems.
It is my honest belief that we are, in most first world countries, on fairly equal footing, though women still have a ways to go, the gap is closing extremely fast, with women doing better in education, employment, etc. Transgender needs WAY more support. Homosexuality needs a little less less support (It shouldn't be "special", it just needs to be viewed as "normal, because that's what it is)
let's see if we can't drum something out of that.
[QUOTE=gudman;41436373]Wait wait. Why is everyone joking and being legitimately funny.
So I stop watching, and you all stop fighting eventually? Come on guys. This ceased to be entertaining, spawn another thread.[/QUOTE]
Because on an internet argument, the slightest difference in belief will be a black and white difference.
Now that everyone has stopped fighting, can I ask why when I posted earlier about my friend whose life was practically completely ruined before he even finished high school because of a false rape claim was shrugged off or rated dumb/funny?
[QUOTE=Tovip;41436629]Now that everyone has stopped fighting, can I ask why when I posted earlier about my friend whose life was practically completely ruined before he even finished high school because of a false rape claim was shrugged off or rated dumb/funny?[/QUOTE]
Because to some people, just because it's a low (ish) chance of happening, it should be ignored or laughed off.
If your friend was falsely accused of rape, in my opinion, that's even worse than being raped; You're a victim through and through, nobody wants to support you, everyone thinks you're a rapist, you need to register as a sex offender, go to prison etc.
[QUOTE=katbug;41436503]Homosexuality needs a little less less support (It shouldn't be "special", it just needs to be viewed as "normal, because that's what it is)[/QUOTE]
its like you just randomly put in something super ambiguous just to solicit a response lol
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436673]its like you just randomly put in something super ambiguous just to solicit a response lol[/QUOTE]
Probably just my confrontational nature on forums.
I think it's being pushed as something that is to be seen as "different but a-ok" instead of something that should be normalized.
[QUOTE=katbug;41436668]
If your friend was falsely accused of rape, in my opinion, that's even worse than being raped; You're a victim through and through, nobody wants to support you, everyone thinks you're a rapist, you need to register as a sex offender, go to prison etc.[/QUOTE]
Ugh It's not worse. Because it's pretty much the same level of social isolation, if a bit more blatant, but without the physical trauma actual sexual assault brings.
Prison probablility is kind of entirely diffirent matter, it is not strictly connected to false accusation. It's trial going wrong.
Women blaming Men for rape due to some stupid reason+ the "All men are monsters/pigs" mentality are the only things [I][B]resembling[/B][/I] actual points MRAs bring up.
[QUOTE=gudman;41436718]Ugh It's not worse. Because it's pretty much the same level of social isolation, if a bit more blatant, but without the physical trauma actual sexual assault brings.
Prison probablility is kind of entirely diffirent matter, it is not strictly connected to false accusation. It's trial going wrong.[/QUOTE]
No, if a false accusation is made they're pretty much going to prison, it's a package deal, I'm only talking about if it isn't proven false because if it is, everyone knows that, you aren't a sex offender any more, not a felon, etc.
If you get accused of rape falsely it will fuck with you FOREVER, even if you get over the emotional trauma of being fucked with so hard there's still physical repercussions. Your kids will know of you as a rapist, if you're even allowed to talk to them anymore(if they even WANT to talk to you any more). When you first move to a neighborhood, you have to tell everyone you're a rapist. You are almost guaranteed to never get a job, and if you had a high paying one, you can kiss that goodbye. You will probably never be able to make friends again, or get married. You're pretty much destined to float through this life (assuming you don't get killed in prison) alone, forever. Hated by everyone- for something you didn't even do.
Edit: are you saying that a rape victim is looked down upon for their entire lives, hated by just about literally EVERYONE?
if youre accused of rape and its not proven false then you're by the law a rapist
i dont know how youd expect a law system to work otherwise
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436794]if youre accused of rape and its not proven false then you're by the law a rapist
i dont know how youd expect a law system to work otherwise[/QUOTE]
That was my explanation for why being accused and charged (falsely) is worse (in my opinion) than being raped; It literally destroys your entire life. Forever.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436794]if youre accused of rape and its not proven false then you're by the law a rapist
i dont know how youd expect a law system to work otherwise[/QUOTE]
It's not exactly an easy thing to disprove.
[QUOTE=katbug;41436783]
Edit: are you saying that a rape victim is looked down upon for their entire lives, hated by just about literally EVERYONE?[/QUOTE]
Not exactly by that, no. But she/he is indeed looked down upon. "Asked for it" and other forms of blaming the victim are indeed present very widely. Victim of rape and victim of false accusation are on the same level in these terms - a lot of people, chances are, a lot of people who they trusted, were close with, are going to dismiss them.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436794][b]if youre accused of rape and its not proven false[/b] then you're by the law a rapist
i dont know how youd expect a law system to work otherwise[/QUOTE]
What?
That's not how it should work.
That's almost like you just randomly put in something super ambiguous just to solicit a response.
[editline]13th July 2013[/editline]
"lol"
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436794]if youre accused of rape and its not proven false then you're by the law a rapist.[/QUOTE]
So if someone has an enemy they can simply accuse them of rape and have them imprisoned? What happened to innocent before proven guilty?
[QUOTE=gudman;41436857]What?
That's not how it should work.
That's almost like you just randomly put in something super ambiguous just to solicit a response.
[editline]13th July 2013[/editline]
"lol"[/QUOTE]
ugh how insulting
obviously i meant if you are convicted by law and not proven innocent then by law you are a rapist
idk how else it would work
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41436879]So if someone has an enemy they can simply accuse them of rape and have them imprisoned? What happened to innocent before proven guilty?[/QUOTE]
i shoved it up my butt thats what happened to it
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436888]ugh how insulting
obviously i meant if you are convicted by law and not proven innocent then by law you are a rapist
idk how else it would work[/QUOTE]
So you meant "convicted" by "accused". It's not obvious. We're talking about accusation, that happens kind of [b]before[/b] the trial takes place.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436888]ugh how insulting
obviously i meant if you are convicted by law and not proven innocent then by law you are a rapist
idk how else it would work[/QUOTE]
unfortunately, right now it's pretty much we have to prove we were not raping you at that time to be innocent. It's really, really hard to disprove, unfortunately.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=gudman;41436857]Not exactly by that, no. But she/he is indeed looked down upon. "Asked for it" and other forms of blaming the victim are indeed present very widely. Victim of rape and victim of false accusation are on the same level in these terms - a lot of people, chances are, a lot of people who they trusted, were close with, are going to dismiss them.
What?
That's not how it should work.
That's almost like you just randomly put in something super ambiguous just to solicit a response.
[editline]13th July 2013[/editline]
"lol"[/QUOTE]
Ok, just going to say this now, to no extent is victim blaming even comparable in a first or even second world country to what a convicted rapist gets.
[QUOTE=gudman;41436913]So you meant "convicted" by "accused". It's not obvious. We're talking about accusation, that happens kind of [b]before[/b] the trial takes place.[/QUOTE]
oh whoops i did write accused instead of convicted
this one is my fault MY BAD
[QUOTE=katbug;41436921]unfortunately, right now it's pretty much we have to prove we were not raping you at that time to be innocent. It's really, really hard to disprove, unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
Well assuming there weren't any other witnesses around, you can't really prove it one way or the other, all you have is testimony of each person involved. But of course you can't just leave all rape accusations up to chance or ignore them. What would you recommend, without just spouting another generalization about the criminal justice system?
[QUOTE=Megafan;41436946]Well assuming there weren't any other witnesses around, you can't really prove it one way or the other, all you have is testimony of each person involved. But of course you can't just leave all rape accusations up to chance or ignore them. What would you recommend, without just spouting another generalization about the criminal justice system?[/QUOTE]
There is no clean way out of this and I would not recommend anything considering the fact that I am not a lawmaker.
The only solution I see out of this is some way to read minds, or track everyone everywhere at once, both of which are impossible.
[QUOTE=katbug;41436955]There is no clean way out of this and I would not recommend anything considering the fact that I am not a lawmaker.[/QUOTE]
So then what are you doing going on about how hard or easy it is to defend against a rape accusation?
[QUOTE=sp00ks;41431935]oh no, the dictionary definition! the best argument i've ever seen. the dictionary is always right, all hail the dictionary.[/QUOTE]
What argument? I'm not making any argument. You told me to look for the definition of racism and that's what I've found and I thought the dictionary is where you find definition of words.
I guess I'm a moron for using definition of words from the dictionary.
Also it's the second time you failed to answer what racism is according to you.
[QUOTE=katbug;41436921]
Ok, just going to say this now, to no extent is victim blaming even comparable in a first or even second world country to what a convicted rapist gets.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you're right. You see, I've been very close with some girls who have been victims of sexual assault in the past, but I haven't been friends with a victim of false accusation. Maybe I don't see the whole picture, it's just from where I'm standing, any kind of social isolation is going to fuck you up very hard.
[QUOTE=Megafan;41436962]So then what are you doing going on about how hard or easy it is to defend against a rape accusation?[/QUOTE]
I'm one who can be effected by it?
I didn't say anything about how less fake rapes should be prosecuted, I'm saying getting accused of it is awful and there's a really slim chance you'll get out if you're put in that position.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41436936]oh whoops i did write accused instead of convicted
this one is my fault MY BAD[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna screencap that, hold on.
[QUOTE=gudman;41436977]Maybe you're right. You see, I've been very close with some girls who have been victims of sexual assault in the past, but I haven't been friends with a victim of false accusation. Maybe I don't see the whole picture, it's just from where I'm standing, any kind of social isolation is going to fuck you up very hard.[/QUOTE]
Imagine their social isolation + criminal intent and the crime they "committed" is so bad that even the victim is getting residual blame.
[QUOTE=katbug;41436978]I'm one who can be effected by it?
I didn't say anything about how less fake rapes should be prosecuted, I'm saying getting accused of it is awful and there's a really slim chance you'll get out if you're put in that position.[/QUOTE]
You keep saying there's 'a really slim chance' with an implication that you get baselessly convicted at the drop of a hat.
As an analogy, I can be shot or mugged or stabbed in the street, but just being the street lends me no idea of how likely or unlikely that is. I can only make a vague guess at best, and even then I have no means to tell how accurate that guess is.
[QUOTE=gudman;41436980]I'm gonna screencap that, hold on.[/QUOTE]
no stop that
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