‘Men’s rights’ group defends posters claiming women lie about rape
670 replies, posted
not to mention most rapists know the victim, they're not bogeymen in the night like Silly Sil assumes.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41468896]You're making it sound like men aren't expected to do things and aren't looked down upon if they don't meet the "standards".[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41469248]Well yes that exactly why I asked. There are gender roles for both men and women so I don't understand why would someone say "you won't understand because you're not going to be discriminated against or expected to do something"
...
The post basically said "you won't understand how it is to be expected to do things or be this and that and getting discriminated if you don't." I'm sorry I can understand that completely because men get the same shit, although in different fields and less but still. [/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, I know all too well that guys have unfair expectations place on them as well. I wasn't saying that you wouldn't know discrimination at all, I was saying you wouldn't know the discrimination that women face. Because you're not a woman, and would have to learn of it second-hand.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41469441]Everybody knows there are men who go to bars/clubs to get laid and will buy women drinks or even spike them. If you ignore that these men exist and you get really drunk with strangers, the chance of you getting hurt one way or another is bigger if you didn't do that.[/QUOTE]
The majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41469461]So the onus is on women to deal with rape, and the likelihood of rape?[/QUOTE]
Umm?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41469441]
It's not responsibility of victims to take precautions against people who might hurt you, but as long as the danger exist, take precautions.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41469461]So in the end, you do think they need to be more responsible?
Rape victims that is.[/QUOTE]
Ever heard of telling your children not to take candy from strangers and or follow them? Fuck that right? Child rape apologizing.
Same goes for getting wasted with strangers.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41469516]Because it's addressing the symptoms instead of the root of the problem. Instead of saying "women should be taking steps not to be raped", why not say "men should be taking steps to not rape people" ?
I could as well say something like "there will always be women who go out at night therefore it's unwise to rape them" (??)
And between "tell women to restrict their liberty" and "tell men to not perform a crime", it seems to me that the one which makes the most sense would be the latter.[/QUOTE]
You miss the "take precautions as long as the danger (these men) exist". Of course the root of the problem are those men and the main thing is to make them stop, that goes without saying. But at this moment, they are out there and we all know that, so don't make it easier for them.
I don't understand what's with you people and your black and white thinking. You can't possibly have both. If I advocate women taking steps not to be raped I must think that it's okay for men to do that and that they shouldn't be taking steps not to rape right?
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41469516]However, all of that is forgetting, that, the majority of rapes are not done for a sexual need but power. You could tell all women to cover from head to feet (see: burquas) and rapes would still occur. Because women can't possibly avoid rape if you don't try to address the perpetrators.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Last or First;41469547]Don't get me wrong, I know all too well that guys have unfair expectations place on them as well. I wasn't saying that you wouldn't know discrimination at all, I was saying you wouldn't know the discrimination that women face. Because you're not a woman, and would have to learn of it second-hand.
The majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41469528]not to mention most rapists know the victim[/QUOTE]
Yeah I know all that. However I'm not making the same argument for all rapes but only about those that happen to drunk girls. Because this type of danger is conceivable and so you can take precautions.
There's nothing you can do when someone who you trust does that to you.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41469528]they're not bogeymen in the night like Silly Sil assumes.[/QUOTE]
Where did I assume that? Is it one of your wild baseless assumptions?
[editline]15th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Last or First;41469547]Don't get me wrong, I know all too well that guys have unfair expectations place on them as well. I wasn't saying that you wouldn't know discrimination at all, I was saying you wouldn't know the discrimination that women face. Because you're not a woman, and would have to learn of it second-hand.[/QUOTE]
Alright, sorry I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about overall not about specific types of situations.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41469658]You miss the "take precautions as long as the danger (these men) exist". Of course the root of the problem are those men and the main thing is to make them stop, that goes without saying. But at this moment, they are out there and we all know that, so don't make it easier for them. [/QUOTE]
"make it easier for them" ?
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41469808]"make it easier for them" ?[/QUOTE]
I thought we were clear on this. There are men who wait in clubs/bars and will buy drinks to women to make them drunk, possibly spike their drinks all that in order to make them unable to resist / say no. Don't get wasted with strangers, take friends with you who'll take care of you etc.
If you do get wasted with strangers and there are no people who could look after you the possibility of getting hurt one way or another increases. I'm a guy and I don't get smashed with people I don't trust or in places that aren't really safe.
And I'm not saying this is the way things are supposed to be. Ideally you shouldn't be afraid of getting hurt in any way by anyone and that's where we should aim but for now, if you can foresee danger, take precautions.
And again. I'm only talking about this kind of situation not all rapes.
You're a horrible spokesperson for rape advice.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470103]You're a horrible spokesperson for rape advice.[/QUOTE]
Why? Because I think that in case of men who want to take advantage of drunk girls you can protect yourself to some degree? Because I think that while we deal with the root of the problem, men taking advantage of drunk girls and the culture where it's okay to have sex with a wasted girl and so on, women should be aware that these men exist and that they should be careful and not get smashed with people who they don't trust?
Wow yeah, I'm a sexist pig, rape apologist, double fedora neckbeard and probably a rapist too.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470364]women should be aware that these men exist[/QUOTE]
pretty sure they already are
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470364]Why? Because I think that in case of men who want to take advantage of drunk girls you can protect yourself to some degree? Because I think that while we deal with the root of the problem, men taking advantage of drunk girls and the culture where it's okay to have sex with a wasted girl and so on, women should be aware that these men exist and that they should be careful and not get smashed with people who they don't trust?
Wow yeah, I'm a sexist pig, rape apologist, double fedora neckbeard and probably a rapist too.[/QUOTE]
I think what ever weak point you were trying to provide has been lost in all this incoherent noise.
Its hilarious these hypothetical rape scenarios you invent. Drunk wimmen getting drunk with strangers.
And its downright offensive that you think that is the root cause of rape. You seriously need to speak to a real rape victim or something.
Because yes, you sound exactly like a sexist pig, rape apologist, double - maybe even triple fedora neckbeard sorry.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41470394]pretty sure they already are[/QUOTE]
Pretty weird part of my post to pick as my main "point" or whatever you're trying to do here. Why would you ignore the rest of the post anyway, that's not the only thing I've said. How about what came after that "and that they should be careful and not get smashed with people who they don't trust"?
Since you know, if you're aware that these men exist, it should be a natural reaction and common sense to take precautions against them? What are you even arguing against?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470493]Pretty weird part of my post to pick as my main "point" or whatever you're trying to do here. Why would you ignore the rest of the post anyway, that's not the only thing I've said. How about what came after that "and that they should be careful and not get smashed with people who they don't trust"?
Since you know, if you're aware that these men exist, it should be a natural reaction and common sense to take precautions against them? What are you even arguing against?[/QUOTE]
Silly Sil - have you ever crossed a road?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470446]I think what ever weak point you were trying to provide has been lost in all this incoherent noise.
Its hilarious these hypothetical rape scenarios you invent. Drunk wimmen getting drunk with strangers.
And its downright offensive that you think that is the root cause of rape. You seriously need to speak to a real rape victim or something.
Because yes, you sound exactly like a sexist pig, rape apologist, double - maybe even triple fedora neckbeard sorry.[/QUOTE]
Wow. I'm sorry but you're just illiterate.
Do you not understand what "that certain scenario/situation" means? I'm only talking about a specific case of girls getting taken advantage of by men when they are drunk. Who the hell said it's the root for all rapes? How many times have I said that I'm [B]not [/B]talking about all rapes but only about this type of scenario? Do you even read my posts or you just skim over them, assume what I said and reply to that?
And are you shitting me that these rapes don't exist? Where men buy women drinks to make them drunk to make them "easier"?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470542]Where men buy women drinks to make them drunk to make them "easier"?[/QUOTE]
Yeah but they're often people the girls already trust so what stellar advice do you have for that?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470518]Silly Sil - have you ever crossed a road?[/QUOTE]
Have you ever learned to reply to what people actually say and not to what you assume they said?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470569]Have you ever learned to reply to what people actually say and not to what you assume they said?[/QUOTE]
Hey buddy I'm not the one who builds a boxfort with every post.
I recommend you all listen to some people named Paul Elam and Girlwriteswhat on Youtube. I'm a MGTOW, and actually found the posters comical, but yes a bit iffy in terms of how they're saying what they are saying. Have a good one y'all.
A few minutes later googling what exactly a MGTOWogla actually is, I'm laughing.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470563]Yeah but they're often people the girls already trust so what stellar advice do you have for that?[/QUOTE]
1. If your trust gets betrayed by someone you already know, it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about so I don't understand why are you bringing this up. For the 5th time I'm not talking about all rapes. Again what do you not understand about "certain type of scenario"?
2. There isn't anything you can really do because it's not something you can foresee. And I was never talking about this kind of situation.
And that quote you brought up was also only talking about that specific scenario. You completely missed my point. All that time you assumed that I was thinking that that's the only way women get raped or something like that.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470589]Hey buddy I'm not the one who builds a boxfort with every post.[/QUOTE]
You are not the only person here who jumps to ridiculous assumptions the moment someone disagrees even slightly.
Like really. Take this post. And tell me what do you disagree with, that's actually written in that post and not implied, assumed, in other words made up by you jumping to conclusions.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470364]Why? Because I think that in case of men who want to take advantage of drunk girls you can protect yourself to some degree? Because I think that while we deal with the root of the problem (in that particular scenario), men taking advantage of drunk girls and the culture where it's okay to have sex with a wasted girl and so on, women should be aware that these men exist and that they should be careful and not get smashed with people who they don't trust?
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470838]1. If your trust gets betrayed by someone you already know, it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about so I don't understand why are you bringing this up. For the 5th time I'm not talking about all rapes. Again what do you not understand about "certain type of scenario"?
2. There isn't anything you can really do because it's not something you can foresee. And I was never talking about this kind of situation.[/QUOTE]
Why isn't it something you can't foresee.
I mean statistically girls should be more wary of guys who have groomed themselves into positions of trust guised as friends - maybe they should stick to drinking with strangers at a bar. Because its better that way, according to your logic.
They should just never have a male friend again, the risk is too great. And if they do get raped by a male friend they should have realised the risks and shoulder some blame - again according to you.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470902]Why isn't it something you can't foresee.
I mean statistically girls should be more wary of guys who have groomed themselves into positions of trust guised as friends - maybe they should stick to drinking with strangers at a bar. Because its better that way, according to your logic.
They should just never have a male friend again, the risk is too great. And if they do get raped by a male friend they should have realised the risks and shoulder some blame - again according to you.[/QUOTE]
How is any of this my logic what the fuck?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470902]Why isn't it something you can't foresee.
I mean statistically girls should be more wary of guys who have groomed themselves into positions of trust guised as friends - maybe they should stick to drinking with strangers at a bar. Because its better that way, according to your logic.
They should just never have a male friend again, the risk is too great. And if they do get raped by a male friend they should have realised the risks and shoulder some blame - again according to you.[/QUOTE]
You sound like those lovely briefings I've had to sit in an auditorium of some 200+ men listen to some 40-something year old woman tell us that 1 in 4 of us will go and rape a woman. Not statically, just that literally 1 in 4 of us will rape a girl. Yay Rape Education.
I'm pretty sure most women won't get drunk with someone they don't trust.
You have a really inane argument going on here.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41470959]I'm pretty sure most women won't get drunk with someone they don't trust.
You have a really inane argument going on here.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha and where was it in my post that "most women will get drunk with someone they don't trust". You are completely, utterly illiterate.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470989]Hahaha and where was it in my post that "most women will get drunk with someone they don't trust". You are completely, utterly illiterate.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41470989]they should be careful and not get smashed with people who they don't trust[/QUOTE]
That was your point.
Let's just say a friend was in a similar situation with a woman online who said yes and told him she was of age. Only for him to find out later from her father that she wasn't before they ever got a chance to meet.
[QUOTE=Secrios;41471044]Let's just say a friend was in a similar situation with a woman online who said yes and told him she was of age. Only for him to find out later from her father that she wasn't before they ever got a chance to meet.[/QUOTE]
what does this have to do with this thread
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41471020]That was your point.[/QUOTE]
I told you to post what you disagree with that's actually [B]written [/B] in my post and not implied, assumed, in other words made up by you jumping to conclusions and [B]nowhere [/B]in my post I see that I wrote that most women would get wasted with strangers. Sorry you can't read.
It wasn't implied either.
And not my point either. Why in the blue hell my point would be "most women like to get drunk with strangers"? Like where did that came from? Are you high by any chance?
My point is "don't get wasted with strangers, it's dangerous you don't know what they're gonna do to/with you, especially if you are a woman". That's literally my point. Nothing implied, assumed or anything of the sort. Just what's actually written.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41471174]I told you to post what you disagree with that's actually [B]written [/B] in my post and not implied, assumed, in other words made up by you jumping to conclusions and [B]nowhere [/B]in my post I see that I wrote that most women would get wasted with strangers. Sorry you can't read.
It wasn't implied either.
And not my point either. Why in the blue hell my point would be "most women like to get drunk with strangers"? Like where did that came from? Are you high by any chance?
My point is "don't get wasted with strangers, especially if you are a woman". That's literally my point. Nothing implied, assumed or anything of the sort. Just what's actually written.[/QUOTE]
But most women already know this. Why would a women want to drink with someone she thought might rape them? Where does this logic stem from. Why are you saying this? What relevance does it have with anything?
This has got to be one of the most long winded and inane arguments you've ever inflicted upon this thread.
I'm sorry that your reading comprehension is as bad as your writing.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;41471207]But most women already know this. Why would a women want to drink with someone she thought might rape them? Where does this logic stem from. Why are you saying this? What relevance does it have with anything?
This has got to be one of the most long winded and inane arguments you've ever inflicted upon this thread.
I'm sorry that your reading comprehension is as bad as your writing.[/QUOTE]
hahaha "reading comprehension" wow.
So hold on. Do I understand this correctly? There's nothing you disagree with in that post. You're just disagreeing with what you [B]assume [/B]I think, but what I never actually [B]wrote[/B]? lol
[editline]15th July 2013[/editline]
And it has relevance to the quote you brought up yourself so eagerly.
[QUOTE=blorgyboy;41470727]I recommend you all listen to some people named Paul Elam and Girlwriteswhat on Youtube.[/QUOTE]
Hahahaha no.
[editline]15th July 2013[/editline]
[url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men's_rights_movement[/url]
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