‘Men’s rights’ group defends posters claiming women lie about rape
670 replies, posted
[QUOTE=katbug;41485636]I said I ~probably~ wouldn't post again, but this is totally ridiculous.
Everybody deserves a voice. "the patriarchy" is just a label to a societal ideal, which hurts both men AND women. Saying that someone shouldn't have a voice is simply inexcusable. EVERYONE deserves the right to stand up for themselves.[/QUOTE]
how was your high school debate class meeting - no seriously, you need to stop saying "WOW EVERYONE'S OPINION DESERVED TO BE RESPECTED"
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485631]How could one fight for equality when only focusing on one group? Why not fight for rights for humans, and not solely human females?[/QUOTE]
straight up, plain ol', no-nonsense progressive feminism is unisex and egalitarian. the MRA movement rides on a victim complex
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485680]how was your high school debate class meeting - no seriously, you need to stop saying "WOW EVERYONE'S OPINION DESERVED TO BE RESPECTED"[/QUOTE]
That's not what I'm saying at all.
When you openly go and attack a group for anything they cannot really control (their sexuality, race, gender, and in many cases their opinions, too) you are being just as bad as the current generation of intolerants.
Not to mention the fact that you're being hypocritical- you've said that feminism fights for everyone's equality- so what's wrong with men fighting for equality in different areas than women are? It's not like either side is being "put down" in a giant blanket term, they are conscripted to certain social ideals that not everyone wants to abide by.
No matter what my stance is on the posters, I think it's nice to see that there is finally some (organized) opposition to the feminist crap that's been spreading recently.
[QUOTE=cody8295;41485750]No matter what my stance is on the posters, I think it's nice to see that there is finally some (organized) opposition to the feminist crap that's been spreading recently.[/QUOTE]
It's really just how far you take it. People can say "feminism is for the equality of everyone!" all they want, but in the public eye (and action) it's mainly only promoting women. If I can get that image from a media that's supportive of women's rights, then there's something wrong with your movement, and it's not going the way you think it is.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;41485777]same reason why you don't deride NAACP for focusing on colored people and not entire humanity
same reason why you don't deride LGBT for focusing on guys and not hetereosexuals
same reason why you don't deride PETA for focusing on animals and not humans as well since they're animals too[/QUOTE]
Even mentioning PETA is completely pointless, and the LGBT movement supports lesbians, gay men, Bisexual people and Transsexual people, it's not LGBTS.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485631]How could one fight for equality when only focusing on one group? Why not fight for rights for humans, and not solely human females?[/QUOTE]
same reason why you don't deride NAACP for focusing on colored people and not entire humanity
same reason why you don't deride LGBT for focusing on homosexuals/lesbians/bi/transgender/queer and not hetereosexuals
same reason why you don't deride PETA for focusing on animals and not humans as well since they're animals too
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485680]how was your high school debate class meeting - no seriously, you need to stop saying "WOW EVERYONE'S OPINION DESERVED TO BE RESPECTED"[/QUOTE]
Come on, man. Why resort to personal attacks?
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485680]
straight up, plain ol', no-nonsense progressive feminism is unisex and egalitarian. the MRA movement rides on a victim complex[/QUOTE]
The progressive feminist movement is in no way egalitarian. Feminism is sexist philosophy.
[QUOTE=katbug;41485748]When you openly go and attack a group for anything they cannot really control (their sexuality, race, gender, and in many cases their opinions, too) you are being just as bad as the current generation of intolerants.[/QUOTE]
please quote me on where i'm attacking people for their race, gender, whatever
[QUOTE]Not to mention the fact that you're being hypocritical- you've said that feminism fights for everyone's equality- so what's wrong with men fighting for equality in different areas than women are? It's not like either side is being "put down" in a giant blanket term, they are conscripted to certain social ideals that not everyone wants to abide by.[/QUOTE]
read what maxofs2d said:
[QUOTE][B]I'm sure that you could cherry pick quotes from very extreme deranged 'feminists' but the fact is that the foundation of feminism is valid, that is establishing equal political, social and economic rights for women in a world where the balance is skewed towards men. Whereas the foundation of men's rights activism is wrong — statistically society favours men in almost all walks of life. Therefore Men's rights activism is a bunch of scared, bitter men trying to maintain a societal inequality. You can't say "oh there are complete mentals on both sides man, don't judge" when the foundation and ideology at the very basest level of men's rights activism is completely wrong.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;41485777]same reason why you don't deride NAACP for focusing on colored people and not entire humanity
same reason why you don't deride LGBT for focusing on homosexuals/lesbians/bi/transgender/queer and not hetereosexuals
[B]same reason why you don't deride PETA for focusing on animals and not humans as well since they're animals too[/B][/QUOTE]
You deride PETA for being hypocrites and being so extreme that no one can take them seriously.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485781]Come on, man. Why resort to personal attacks?
[/QUOTE]
Because it's easier to argue that way.
And Ownered, I've read what maxofs2d said, and I disagree with him. I reserve that right. Not to mention that maxofs2d's opinion proves another one of my points; feminism is only for women.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485804]You deride PETA for being hypocrites and being so extreme that no one can take them seriously.[/QUOTE]
yeah, good job ignoring the others and missing the entire point so you don't have to respond to the answer to your question then try argue a completely different point
10/10
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485804]You deride PETA for being hypocrites and being so extreme that no one can take them seriously.[/QUOTE]
like people deride MRA?
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485781]The progressive feminist movement is in no way egalitarian. Feminism is sexist philosophy.[/QUOTE]
then i guess the MRA movement is sexist philosophy as well if you're just gonna narrow it down to that. no seriously, cite an professionally-done, academic source from some university that says that progressive feminism is explicitly sexist
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485786]please quote me on where i'm attacking people for their race, gender, whatever
read what maxofs2d said:[/QUOTE]
You just proved katbug's point. You indeed said that feminism fights for everyone's equality, yet Maxof2D's quote states that feminism is a movement for social and economic rights for [B]women[/B]. It's not for everyone's equality, it is only to get more rights for women.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485853]You just proved katbug's point. You indeed said that feminism fights for everyone's equality, yet Maxof2D's quote states that feminism is a movement for social and economic rights for [B]women[/B]. It's not for everyone's equality, it is only to get more rights for women.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15238127[/url]
took me five seconds to google
[QUOTE=KigJow;41485631]How could one fight for equality when only focusing on one group? Why not fight for rights for humans, and not solely human females?[/QUOTE]
Literally every equality movement does this. Gay rights activists focus on people attracted to the same sex, for example. There's nothing wrong with specializing in an issue that you're passionate in and/or personally affects you, and being a feminist isn't mutually exclusive with fighting for the rights of other groups.
[QUOTE=katbug;41485636]I said I ~probably~ wouldn't post again, but this is totally ridiculous.
Everybody deserves a voice. "the patriarchy" is just a label to a societal ideal, which hurts both men AND women. Saying that someone shouldn't have a voice is simply inexcusable. EVERYONE deserves the right to stand up for themselves.[/QUOTE]
He's not saying people shouldn't be able to stand up for themselves, but the thing they're standing up for is silly. That's not to say men don't have problems, but that MRA's tend to blame women and feminists for the problems, when in actual fact they're generally caused by the same inequality that feminists are fighting against.
I think the big problem is that you're all seeing this as a "vs" situation.
Let men advocate for men's rights, women advocate for their own rights, or intermingle as necessary. Saying that we have to compartmentalize progression is naive.
[QUOTE=katbug;41485933]I think the big problem is that you're all seeing this as a "vs" situation.
Let men advocate for men's rights, women advocate for their own rights, or intermingle as necessary. Saying that we have to compartmentalize progression is naive.[/QUOTE]
~ but the problem is when MRA advocates rights such as this, it hurts women's advocacy by downplaying rape, blaming the victim, or creating a false epidemic of false-rape dilemmas ~
[QUOTE=katbug;41485933]I think the big problem is that you're all seeing this as a "vs" situation.
Let men advocate for men's rights, women advocate for their own rights, or intermingle as necessary. Saying that we have to compartmentalize progression is naive.[/QUOTE]
anyone with at least an ounce of academic feminism in their head would tell you otherwise. both genders are disadvantaged by a patriarchy, feminism is an example of response to this.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485958]anyone with at least an ounce in academic feminism in their head would tell you otherwise. both genders are disadvantaged by a patriarchy, feminism is an example of response to this.[/QUOTE]
So is men's rights activism.
[QUOTE=katbug;41485964][B]So is men's rights activism.[/B][/QUOTE]
please tell me where you're going to find the MRA movement in a professional, academic, college environment. i'll buy you a metaphorical soda if you do
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485990]please tell me where you're going to find the MRA movement in a professional, academic, college environment. i'll buy you a metaphorical soda if you do[/QUOTE]
Why should feminism be in an academic environment?
[editline]16th July 2013[/editline]
Isn't academic feminism an oxymoron?
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41485990]please tell me where you're going to find the MRA movement in a professional, academic, college environment. i'll buy you a metaphorical soda if you do[/QUOTE]
Good thing feminism wasn't held to this standard before it become an actual thing or it would have died before it ever started.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41486005]Why should feminism be in an academic environment?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement#Equal_rights_vs._sexism[/url]
[QUOTE=katbug;41485636]I said I ~probably~ wouldn't post again, but this is totally ridiculous.
Everybody deserves a voice. "the patriarchy" is just a label to a societal ideal, which hurts both men AND women. Saying that someone shouldn't have a voice is simply inexcusable. EVERYONE deserves the right to stand up for themselves.[/QUOTE]
i want you to seriously consider this: men are only hurt by proxy to women. you get judged by other men for acting like a woman, you're expected to go get killed in a war just to prove that you have a dick, 80% of suicides are caused by young men being pushed over the edge because they aren't man enough to take it, you don't get custody of your child because women are supposed to do that for you, and the only reason you get paid more is because you're probably going to get killed by a lack of OSHA compliance or some crazy guy with a gun.
all of this evidence of men being oppressed or hurt that you yourself cited as fact is a direct result of patriarchy, but you still think it's because men lack a voice that these things happen. let me ask you; if men had more power over society than they do right now, do you think these things would stop happening? would you not need to get shot at in foreign countries to prove your worth as a man? would you finally be seen as a worthy carer for your children? would acting like a woman not be a bad thing anymore?
now, if women and men were instead working together, would that not, you know, fix all that? men don't need to act like walking cocks with assault rifles anymore, and women don't need to make you cakes and wear frilly dresses before you go out to shoot at people, ignore your children, and have an existential crisis about your lack of masculinity. everybody can benefit from this in the end, you just need to be willing to help yourself and everyone else become better, more liberated people.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41486034][url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement#Equal_rights_vs._sexism[/url][/QUOTE]
Ooh boy, the opinions from a feminist site, that'll sure prove your argument.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41486005]Why should feminism be in an academic environment?
[editline]16th July 2013[/editline]
Isn't academic feminism an oxymoron?[/QUOTE]
do you understand what any of the words, "academic", "feminism" or "oxymoron" mean or did you just feel like it would be clever to mention something you dislike and then call it an oxymoron
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41486034][url]http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights_movement#Equal_rights_vs._sexism[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3175510?uid=3739616&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102467892391[/url]
[editline]16th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41486075]do you understand what any of the words, "academic", "feminism" or "oxymoron" mean or did you just feel like it would be clever to mention something you dislike and then call it an oxymoron[/QUOTE]
You check the link, too.
[QUOTE=Cone;41486054]i want you to seriously consider this: men are only hurt by proxy to women. you get judged by other men for acting like a woman, you're expected to go get killed in a war just to prove that you have a dick, 80% of suicides are caused by young men being pushed over the edge because they aren't man enough to take it, you don't get custody of your child because women are supposed to do that for you, and the only reason you get paid more is because you're probably going to get killed by a lack of OSHA compliance or some crazy guy with a gun.
all of this evidence of men being oppressed or hurt that you yourself cited as fact is a direct result of patriarchy, but you still think it's because men lack a voice that these things happen. let me ask you; if men had more power over society than they do right now, do you think these things would stop happening? would you not need to get shot at in foreign countries to prove your worth as a man? would you finally be seen as a worthy carer for your children? would acting like a woman not be a bad thing anymore?
now, if women and men were instead working together, would that not, you know, fix all that? men don't need to act like walking cocks with assault rifles anymore, and women don't need to make you cakes and wear frilly dresses before you go out to shoot at people, ignore your children, and have an existential crisis about your lack of masculinity. everybody can benefit from this in the end, you just need to be willing to help yourself and everyone else become better, more liberated people.[/QUOTE]
But that's lumping by association, and therefore concluding that because I am a man, I am the problem.
You should be vilifying a thought process, and not a gender. If I want to advocate for my own rights, as a man, against something that other men have deduced is the "correct way", I should not be discouraged.
[quote]if men had more power over society than they do right now, do you think these things would stop happening?[/quote]
No, of course not, I never even implied that. I never said that men needed MORE power, only that the power that there is needs to be more equally distributed.
[QUOTE=KigJow;41486081][URL]http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3175510?uid=3739616&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102467892391[/URL][/QUOTE]
'cultural marxism is bad' woo
dwell on this for a moment, and think where i'm getting at:
you also know that there are 'heterophobia' advocacy groups, while in reality, no one is going to be put down for being straight; these 'heterophobia advovacy' groups are simply just attempts at nagging and de-legitmizing LGBT awareness about 99.5 percent of the time?
[QUOTE=KigJow;41486081][url]http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3175510?uid=3739616&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102467892391[/url]
[editline]16th July 2013[/editline]
You check the link, too.[/QUOTE]
holy shit, feminism is worse than marxism, while marxism is just bad
10/10 argument
i am on your side now
fuck feminazis, men's rights 4 lyfe, lying sluts that cry rape every 5 minutes
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