‘Men’s rights’ group defends posters claiming women lie about rape
670 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;41430170]Yeah, you know why that is? It's because you're in no state to legally consent.[/QUOTE]
How much can you drink before you can't give consent? A sip? A beer? 2 beers?
What if they were both drunk? They are both rapists or only the man?
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41422343]"don't be that girl"? victim blaming HQ 2013. that literally disgusts me
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
if you signed a contract when incredibly drunk would you be like "yeah its okay i consented to it" lol ridiculous[/QUOTE]
What happens to the guys who are also drunk and all they want is sex, but [B]not[/b] rape, and they end up with the really drunk girl and she says she wants to? And they're both drunk? Who's fault? The person who asked the question? Or the person who answered it?
It's kind of disappointing how quickly Facepunch generally dismisses and laughs at things like this. No, not all rape reports are false reports. But quite a bit of them are. And it [I]is[/I] a problem. If there are posters that say [I]"Don't be that guy"[/I] and it's not looked down upon, why shouldn't the opposite be true?
False rape accusations happen. Very often. And they almost always ruin the accused person's life unless absolute proof can show them to be innocent. Why are you all mocking and acting like that never happens? I remember a thread that showed that happening and everyone took the man's side and demonized the woman, but here you're all demonizing the men with these posters. Why?
what happens to consent if both parties are piss krunk off their knockers?
[QUOTE=Quark:;41430251]It's kind of disappointing how quickly Facepunch generally dismisses and laughs at things like this. No, not all rape reports are false reports. But quite a bit of them are. And it [I]is[/I] a problem. If there are posters that say [I]"Don't be that guy"[/I] and it's not looked down upon, why shouldn't the opposite be true?
False rape accusations happen. Very often. And they almost always ruin the accused person's life unless absolute proof can show them to be innocent. Why are you all mocking and acting like that never happens? I remember a thread that showed that happening and everyone took the man's side and demonized the woman, but here you're all demonizing the men with these posters. Why?[/QUOTE]
Because it's more fun to pretend that everyone that says anything against someone who is pro-fem is anti-fem and we need to assert our dominance over them because we are clearly the morally upstanding manly men.
[QUOTE=Quark:;41430251]It's kind of disappointing how quickly Facepunch generally dismisses and laughs at things like this. No, not all rape reports are false reports. But quite a bit of them are. And it [I]is[/I] a problem. If there are posters that say [I]"Don't be that guy"[/I] and it's not looked down upon, why shouldn't the opposite be true?
False rape accusations happen. Very often. And they almost always ruin the accused person's life unless absolute proof can show them to be innocent. Why are you all mocking and acting like that never happens? I remember a thread that showed that happening and everyone took the man's side and demonized the woman, but here you're all demonizing the men with these posters. Why?[/QUOTE]
do you actually have any proof that false rape accusations are this common or uh
[QUOTE=Fish_poke;41422329]People lie about rape, but this isn't generally considered lying. Consent comes from a clear state of mind, which drunk people are not in in the slightest.[/QUOTE]
If they're both drunk, then shouldn't nobody be at fault?
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41430340]If they're both drunk, then shouldn't nobody be at fault?[/QUOTE]
I think the way that goes down in court is that they would have both raped each other, but women can't rape so only the guy raping is left.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41430227]How much can you drink before you can't give consent? A sip? A beer? 2 beers?
What if they were both drunk? They are both rapists or only the man?[/QUOTE]
It depends on the person. Each situation is different.
This is the second time I've mentioned this recently, but it's like that one judge said about porn. "I know it when I see it."
And if both are drunk, that's a completely different situation than if just one is drunk. Neither would be at fault.
[QUOTE=Quark:;41430251]It's kind of disappointing how quickly Facepunch generally dismisses and laughs at things like this. No, not all rape reports are false reports. But quite a bit of them are. And it [I]is[/I] a problem. If there are posters that say [I]"Don't be that guy"[/I] and it's not looked down upon, why shouldn't the opposite be true?
False rape accusations happen. Very often. And they almost always ruin the accused person's life unless absolute proof can show them to be innocent. Why are you all mocking and acting like that never happens? I remember a thread that showed that happening and everyone took the man's side and demonized the woman, but here you're all demonizing the men with these posters. Why?[/QUOTE]
False rape accusations do happen quite often. It's just that rapes happen [I]much much [B]MUCH[/B][/I] more often. False rape accusations are at about the same rate as false rape accusations for other crimes, about 2-3%. But only half of rapes are reported, which is a much bigger problem. A problem that's exacerbated by bringing up "omg false rape accusations" every time someone mentions rape. You don't get that for other crimes, at least not nearly as often as you do for rape. If someone says "My store was robbed!", you don't hear a bunch of people saying "you liar you probably just hid your stuff and are crying theft for attention".
[QUOTE=katbug;41430195]As long as you put yourself in that position, you are in EVERY state to legally consent.[/QUOTE]
So, does this statement apply to any position you put yourself in? Or just ones that make you feel superior to party-goers?
[QUOTE=katbug;41429834]The problem is that if a woman has consumed any quantity of alcohol and has sex, people can call that rape, which it is not.
If they are passed out, then it is rape. But if you get drunk and have sex, it is not. Same with if you get drunk and shoot someone or drive and hit someone and kill them, it's your fault because you put it in your body (once again, this is excluding passed-out, because you are, well, passed out.)[/QUOTE]
Again. Being raped is something done to you. Drinking and driving is something that you do. What about that do you not understand?
In drinking and driving (or similar crimes committed while drunk like theft or property damage), the one holding the power over the actions is the person doing them, the drunk person. However, when a sober person has sex with a drunk person, the one holding the power over the situation is the sober person.
the thing about feminism is, you don't necessarily have to be a misogynist to support things that are detrimental to women as a whole. not every MRA actually [I]hates[/I] women (although a lot of them still do), but they still feel that things that are good for women are bad for men, and that eventually results in them acting in a way that could be called misogynist. for example, this whole idea that egalitarianism is especially different from feminism isn't necessarily borne out of hating women or feminists, but it does result in otherwise perfectly reasonable people seeing things the wrong way and doing things that hurt women.
In high school I had two friends who used to have sex like rabbits until one day the male friend decided he was going to brake up with the female friend, so she filed a rape report on the man and now he has that on his record forever.
I don't think these false reports are a huge epidemic but they are not as rare as some people here are saying that they are.
I'm really far removed from this thread from missing about 90 posts, but I want to point out that debating using terms like Patriarchy and Rape Culture does not remove one from the problem of misogyny. Focusing on specific problems instead of looking at the bigger picture removes one from productive discussion.
Also, the point of Patriarchy as a term in sociology is the collection of everything involving misogyny and oppression in society. Saying that Patriarchy should not be talked about next to rape is idiotic.
Also I agree with everything thisispain said
[QUOTE=Tovip;41430672]In high school I had two friends who used to have sex like rabbits until one day the male friend decided he was going to brake up with the female friend, so she filed a rape report on the man and now he has that on his record forever.
I don't think these false reports are a huge epidemic but they are not as rare as some people here are saying that they are.[/QUOTE]
you knowing a guy that it happened to is not indicative of it being common.
[QUOTE=Last or First;41430556]
False rape accusations do happen quite often. It's just that rapes happen [I]much much [B]MUCH[/B][/I] more often. False rape accusations are at about the same rate as false rape accusations for other crimes, about 2-3%. But only half of rapes are reported, which is a much bigger problem. A problem that's exacerbated by bringing up "omg false rape accusations" every time someone mentions rape. You don't get that for other crimes, at least not nearly as often as you do for rape. If someone says "My store was robbed!", you don't hear a bunch of people saying "you liar you probably just hid your stuff and are crying theft for attention".
So, does this statement apply to any position you put yourself in? Or just ones that make you feel superior to party-goers?
Again. Being raped is something done to you. Drinking and driving is something that you do. What about that do you not understand?
In drinking and driving (or similar crimes committed while drunk like theft or property damage), the one holding the power over the actions is the person doing them, the drunk person. However, when a sober person has sex with a drunk person, the one holding the power over the situation is the sober person.[/QUOTE]
The 1-2% statistic is incorrect. Due to the almost impossible nature of tracking such a statistic, most of the ones you find online are incorrect. Women's rights sites say it's 2%, men's rights sites say it is 40%+. Until we find a real way to track this, all such statistics should be considered invalid.
Yeah, pretty much. If you get drunk as fuck in public and you did it to yourself, then you are fully responsible. Same thing with if you take drugs. You don't hear people saying "Ooh that poor guy who was on bath salts, silly police should've known he wasn't in the right state of mind"
What part about "getting yourself drunk" do you not understand? If you get drunk and have CONSENTUAL sex, it is still CONSENTUAL.
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=person11;41430738]I'm really far removed from this thread from missing about 90 posts, but I want to point out that debating using terms like Patriarchy and Rape Culture does not remove one from the problem of misogyny. Focusing on specific problems instead of looking at the bigger picture removes one from productive discussion.
Also, the point of Patriarchy as a term in sociology is the collection of everything involving misogyny and oppression in society. Saying that Patriarchy should not be talked about next to rape is idiotic.
Also I agree with everything thisispain said[/QUOTE]
"the patriarchy" does not exist.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;41430806]you knowing a guy that it happened to is not indicative of it being common.[/QUOTE]
It just doesn't take a wild imagination to think of a number of other situations where it could have happened, iirc there was even someone here on facepunch a while back that went to jail for domestic abuse and was not allowed to appeal it.
The problem with false reports is that percentages are thrown out the window due to their nature so obviously the numbers are going to be a bit low.
[QUOTE=Cone;41430567]the thing about feminism is, you don't necessarily have to be a misogynist to support things that are detrimental to women as a whole. not every MRA actually [I]hates[/I] women (although a lot of them still do), but they still feel that things that are good for women are bad for men, and that eventually results in them acting in a way that could be called misogynist. for example, this whole idea that egalitarianism is especially different from feminism isn't necessarily borne out of hating women or feminists, but it does result in otherwise perfectly reasonable people seeing things the wrong way and doing things that hurt women.[/QUOTE]
The way a lot of hardcore feminists act is misandrist (yes, that is a thing). Extremes of ANY side make the entire thing look bad.
[QUOTE=Tovip;41430943]It just doesn't take a wild imagination to think of a number of other situations where it could have happened, iirc there was even someone here on facepunch a while back that went to jail for domestic abuse and was not allowed to appeal it.
The problem with false reports is that percentages are thrown out the window due to their nature so obviously the numbers are going to be a bit low.[/QUOTE]
im sorry but you cannot use your imagination as evidence - wild or not
and considering that the number of unreported cases of actual rape (which suffers from the same problem as stats about false claims) compared to that of false accusations, the relative number is still tiny
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=katbug;41430958]The way a lot of hardcore feminists act is misandrist (yes, that is a thing). Extremes of ANY side make the entire thing look bad.[/QUOTE]
do you have any valid examples of this, or...?
[QUOTE=Tovip;41430672]In high school I had two friends who used to have sex like rabbits until one day the male friend decided he was going to brake up with the female friend, so she filed a rape report on the man and now he has that on his record forever.
I don't think these false reports are a huge epidemic but they are not as rare as some people here are saying that they are.[/QUOTE]
To the people rating this dumb and funny, I'm sure my male friend deserved to only be able to find employment as a janitor now that we are out of high school.
Just because it isn't an issue that happens a lot doesn't mean that it cant ruin peoples lives.
[QUOTE=katbug;41430915][B]The 1-2% statistic is incorrect. Due to the almost impossible nature of tracking such a statistic, most of the ones you find online are incorrect. Women's rights sites say it's 2%, men's rights sites say it is 40%+. Until we find a real way to track this, all such statistics should be considered invalid.[/B]
Yeah, pretty much. If you get drunk as fuck in public and you did it to yourself, then you are fully responsible. Same thing with if you take drugs. You don't hear people saying "Ooh that poor guy who was on bath salts, silly police should've known he wasn't in the right state of mind"
[B]What part about "getting yourself drunk" do you not understand? If you get drunk and have CONSENTUAL sex, it is still CONSENTUAL.[/B]
[editline]12th July 2013[/editline]
[B]"the patriarchy" does not exist[/B].[/QUOTE]
oh my god dude, my side is gonna burst any moment now from this laughter
[QUOTE=katbug;41430958]The way a lot of hardcore feminists act is misandrist [B](yes, that is a thing). [/B]Extremes of ANY side make the entire thing look bad.[/QUOTE]
no it's not. ask any sociologist.
anyways, congratulations on being a rape apologist. i'll bet your parents are real proud of you, bravely standing up for rapists against all those awful rape victims.
[QUOTE=katbug;41430958]The way a lot of [B]hardcore feminists act is misandrist (yes, that is a thing)[/B]. Extremes of ANY side make the entire thing look bad.[/QUOTE]
no it's not. stop riding on a persecution complex
[QUOTE=sp00ks;41431145]no it's not. ask any sociologist.
anyways, congratulations on being a rape apologist. i'll bet your parents are real proud of you, bravely standing up for rapists against all those awful rape victims.[/QUOTE]
Hatred and prejudice towards men doesn't exist?
[QUOTE=katbug;41430958]The way a lot of hardcore feminists act is misandrist (yes, that is a thing). Extremes of ANY side make the entire thing look bad.[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
[QUOTE=sp00ks;41431145]no it's not. ask any sociologist.
anyways, congratulations on being a rape apologist. i'll bet your parents are real proud of you, bravely standing up for rapists against all those awful rape victims.[/QUOTE]
Congratulations on being an ad hominem user.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41431170]Hatred and prejudice towards men doesn't exist?[/QUOTE]
cite the last example that you were put down for being a male. some obscure tumblr blog that no one cares about doesn't count
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41431170]Hatred and prejudice towards men doesn't exist?[/QUOTE]
and then the fedora comes out from the cupboard
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;41431170]Hatred and prejudice towards men doesn't exist?[/QUOTE]
For simply being male? No.
[QUOTE=sp00ks;41431145]no it's not. ask any sociologist.
anyways, congratulations on being a rape apologist. i'll bet your parents are real proud of you, bravely standing up for rapists against all those awful rape victims.[/QUOTE]
So I'm a rape apologist for saying that hardcore extremists can be prejudice?
fuck off, you don't even know what you're arguing about any more. Extremists for ANYTHING make them look bad. This is a FACT. Extremist muslims blow up schools. Extremist men's rights activists act like assholes. Extremist women's rights activists act like assholes.
[QUOTE=katbug;41431217]So I'm a rape apologist for saying that hardcore extremists can be prejudice?
fuck off, you don't even know what you're arguing about any more. Extremists for ANYTHING make them look bad. This is a FACT. Extremist muslims blow up schools. Extremist men's rights activists act like assholes. Extremist women's rights activates act like assholes.[/QUOTE]
you're trying to get at some oddball niche of people. like i said, stop riding on a persecution complex because of said group
[QUOTE=katbug;41431217]So I'm a rape apologist for saying that hardcore extremists can be prejudice?
fuck off, you don't even know what you're arguing about any more. Extremists for ANYTHING make them look bad. This is a FACT. Extremist muslims blow up schools. Extremist men's rights activists act like assholes. Extremist women's rights activists act like assholes.[/QUOTE]
So you're just throwing Extremists around like a buzzword.
Great argument bud.
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