Horrifying Audio of Man Killing Unarmed Teens Released By Court
249 replies, posted
[QUOTE=seano12;44706216]Does anyone know why they broke into the home? Did they believe the old man was out of town and they wanted to steal some of his belongings?[/QUOTE]
not gonna go check if this was posted yet but he knew these kids, he gave them work around his house for a while and let them come in and served them dinner and stuff, but eventually stuff started to go missing
he never locked his doors and only called the police once
the "thirty times" figure is probably bullshit conflating the times he's let them in because how would you even count the break-ins
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;44707810]Yes because premeditated murder is a justified response to breaking and entering.[/QUOTE]
Where do you get that I think the guy was justified? You even quote my post.
Death is a likely result from breaking into someone's house in America, yes.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=draugur;44707809]Uhh, no, they would have not died had this fucking mentally ill person not owned guns and actually sought help through the PROPER channels of the justice system. Are you really this incompetent or playing devil's avocado?[/QUOTE]
Look in the mirror, pal.
I'm fine with protecting your life with a firearm even if you're not100% sure they are unarmed but this was a brutal act. You do shoot to terminate the threat. But you don't execute them after they're clearly no longer a threat.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44707599]Lol! Is that what you think? No, but I know how strongly people in America feel about their property and guns, and I wouldn't dare break into someone's house knowing how many of my own neighbors own guns.
Teens died because of their own actions.[/QUOTE]
The teens died because the old man broke the law.
[QUOTE=plunger435;44707919]The teens died because the old man broke the law.[/QUOTE]
It's both sides of the coin, I agree he was at fault and is a crazy nut for executing them and recording the whole thing, but the teens would be alive if they had not broken into his house.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44707962]It's not both sides of the coin, he's already been convicted of murder.[/QUOTE]
And the teens died... from their own actions. And the man is convicted, for his own batshit insane actions. Both sides... of the coin.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44707934]It's both sides of the coin, I agree he was at fault and is a crazy nut for executing them and recording the whole thing, but the teens would be alive if they had not broken into his house.[/QUOTE]
It's not both sides of the coin, he's already been convicted of murder.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44707934]It's both sides of the coin, I agree he was at fault and is a crazy nut for executing them and recording the whole thing, but the teens would be alive if they had not broken into his house.
And the teens died... from their own actions. And the man is convicted, for his own batshit insane actions. Both sides... of the coin.[/QUOTE]
The teens actions only put them in the position, their actions didn't directly lead to their own murders, the old guy gunning them down then executing them afterwards did.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44707934]And the teens died... from their own actions. And the man is convicted, for his own batshit insane actions. Both sides... of the coin.[/QUOTE]
no when people are convicted of murder that means the victim was not at fault or it would be manslaughter
and the people who decided this are much more informed than you and your single news article you just read today
so please stop presuming you know the whole story
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44708007]no when people are convicted of murder that means the victim was not at fault or it would be manslaughter
and the people who decided this are much more informed than you and your single news article you just read today
so please stop presuming you know the whole story[/QUOTE]
Oh my... I have never said that the old man is not at fault nor have I said he is not crazy. The teenagers died because they broke into that man's house, if they had made the obvious choice not to do so, they would not be dead.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=plunger435;44707998]The teens actions only put them in the position, their actions didn't directly lead to their own murders, the old guy gunning them down then executing them afterwards did.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because deciding to break into a crazy nut's house who shoots you is not your fault.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44708057]Oh my... I have never said that the old man is not at fault nor have I said he is not crazy. The teenagers died because they broke into that man's house, if they had made the obvious choice not to do so, they would not be dead.[/QUOTE]
okay who gives a shit. since you agree their death was not a fault of their own what you're saying is literally meaningless. It carries no legal weight and no moral weight. It's just a stupid observation that is impossible to derive any actual point from.
like "hey you shouldn't have walked through that dark alley that's why you got stabbed" cool captain hindsight thanks a lot
[QUOTE=dai;44706429]he laid a trap for kids, sat in wait for 6 hours recording silence, then shot them multiple times with the added bonus of shooting them in the faces after already putting them down with numerous shots. Yes they had been in there a many times before (they say violent? did they beat the dude up or something? maybe it wasn't even those two before and it was some stupid dare some stupid group of friends had been making the rounds on).
from the sound of it, the guy was going to be in and out quick, and the girl wasn't supposed to be involved at all. Seems she waited in a nearby car for him to return, and when he didn't for 40 minutes, she came in to see if he was alright. The old man didn't say "get the fuck out I have a rifle", he just waited for her to amble over to the stairs as she called out for the boy and shot her from the darkness, before muttering shit at her and unloading more shots.
The kids were stupid to break into a house, but they weren't out to get him- they only showed up when the place was apparently empty because they clearly didn't want confrontation, what would amount to a potentially "violent" break-in.
fuck this guy for his awful attempt at vigilante justice[/QUOTE]
That sums this case up pretty much perfectly.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44706091]generally, not this case in particular.
Where are all the pro-rehabilitation people?, I need backup.[/QUOTE]
He's not being sentenced to death and just normally going to jail, all is fine. Only complaint I have is the jail system itself being for punishment and not rehabilitation, but this isn't the thread for that.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;44706344]fp is hilarious honestly
constantly going off about how if you knock down my door and come in my house i won't hesitate to shoot you in the chest and kill you and i'd be morally and legally in the right to do so
this guy does the same thing, and somehow people are trying to justify castle doctrine whilst decrying someone who used it![/QUOTE]
The right to defend yourself in your home should an intruder come =/= premeditated murder.
Either you're really bad at reading or just trying to start shit.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44708085]okay who gives a shit. since you agree their death was not a fault of their own what you're saying is literally meaningless. It carries no legal weight and no moral weight. It's just a stupid observation that is impossible to derive any actual point from.[/QUOTE]
As is yours, congratulations for starting a pointless argument based on what I never said. It's a forum and I put my opinion out there, you act as though I'm somehow wrong when the fact remains they died senselessly from their own decisions.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;44708085]like "hey you shouldn't have walked through that dark alley that's why you got stabbed" cool captain hindsight thanks a lot[/QUOTE]
Oh, okay, because that public alley is the same thing as a man's home which is his property.
I am conflicted. On one hand, he brutally murdered them. On the other, they were breaking into his home and kinda deserved it.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44708057]Oh my... I have never said that the old man is not at fault nor have I said he is not crazy. The teenagers died because they broke into that man's house, if they had made the obvious choice not to do so, they would not be dead.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
Yeah, because deciding to break into a crazy nut's house who shoots you is not your fault.[/QUOTE]
Except the man deliberately went out of his way to make the house appear empty until it was to late for them to know otherwise.
[QUOTE=Sokrates;44708166]I am conflicted. On one hand, he brutally murdered them. On the other, they were breaking into his home and kinda deserved it.[/QUOTE]
Teenagers don't deserve to die for breaking into what they think is an empty house with no violence intended.
honestly don't break into houses period, what the fuck do you expect to happen? wishing confrontation or not, you're pretty much asking for trouble when you break into people's homes. what happened was a fucking tragedy no two ways about it, but it is your own fucking stupid fault for breaking into someone's home in the first place idiot
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44707844]
Look in the mirror, pal.[/QUOTE]
I don't know what you mean by this, but if you're trying to bring my mental illness into this I'm just going to tell you that you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm nothing like this man, and I am capable of being a responsible owner of a firearm, in the event I am no longer able to, my family has already arranged to take them. Mental illness is no joke and I'm not going to treat it like one just so I can enjoy a dangerous hobby. Frankly I'm pretty disgusted that you'd stoop to that level and I really hope for the sake of your credibility that you're not.
[QUOTE=draugur;44708274]I don't know what you mean by this, but if you're trying to bring my mental illness into this I'm just going to tell you that you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. I'm nothing like this man, and I am capable of being a responsible owner of a firearm, in the event I am no longer able to, my family has already arranged to take them. Mental illness is no joke and I'm not going to treat it like one just so I can enjoy a dangerous hobby. Frankly I'm pretty disgusted that you'd stoop to that level and I really hope for the sake of your credibility that you're not.[/QUOTE]
You make an assumption, question if it was my intent, and then proceed as if that assumption were true without even knowing my intentions. Relax. This has nothing to do with whatever mental problems you suffer from and I had no prior knowledge of that.
You said earlier I'm either incompetent or playing devil's advocate for my belief and that is what I responded to.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44707844]
Death is a likely result from breaking into someone's house in America, yes.
[/QUOTE]
It really shouldn't be though.
You Americans need to fix that.
[QUOTE=aznz888;44705860]On one hand, those teens broke into a house, and knew the risk they were taking. On the other hand, that's just straight up cold-blooded execution from the old guy, and that's real fucked up.[/QUOTE]
Hey I was up and for what this guy did up until after they were stopped. Then he got tarps out for their bodies, executed them after they were stopped and no longer any threat at all, and that's where the line between Self/Home defense and murder is drawn so thick you'd need a first class ticket to get across it. He had to have known they were going to break in, too, because he set a lot of shit up to prepare for it beforehand. So I would even go so far as to say premeditated
[QUOTE=booster;44708420]It really shouldn't be though.
You Americans need to fix that.[/QUOTE]
I'll ignore the arrogance and simply say, absolutely, but I don't see an easy fix. Just this morning I heard on the radio that a gun store in my area was bullied out of selling "safe" guns which required you to wear a specific wrist watch in order to be able to fire the weapon. The gun store owner was sent death threats over this because people were afraid the technology might catch on and be forced onto their guns... are you kidding me?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44708508]I don't agree with the death-threats, but the concept of safe guns is a pretty bad one, and I can see why people are upset. States like New Jersey have laws stating that if any form of "safe-gun" comes on the market, that it'll be the only gun that can be sold in the state. It's a pretty reasonable fear to state the least.[/QUOTE]
I can see the pros and cons, but yeah, the death threats and "from my cold, dead hands" rhetoric is just sad.
[QUOTE=outlawpickle;44708453]I'll ignore the arrogance and simply say, absolutely, but I don't see an easy fix. Just this morning I heard on the radio that a gun store in my area was bullied out of selling "safe" guns which required you to wear a specific wrist watch in order to be able to fire the weapon. The gun store owner was sent death threats over this because people were afraid the technology might catch on and be forced onto their guns... are you kidding me?[/QUOTE]
I don't agree with the death-threats, but the concept of safe guns is a pretty bad one, and I can see why people are upset. States like New Jersey have laws stating that if any form of "safe-gun" comes on the market, that it'll be the only gun that can be sold in the state. It's a pretty reasonable fear to state the least.
[editline]2nd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=booster;44708420]It really shouldn't be though.
You Americans need to fix that.[/QUOTE]
The case isn't a matter of Castle Doctrine.
The guy's house has been broken into roughly thirty times[his words, not mine] by the same group of kids. So he set up an ambush(premeditated/1st degree) and waited on them to enter his household. Once they entered the household he could of been justified in holding them up at gunpoint, or shooting them had they went at him, but the thing where the line of justifiable self defense is removed is when he wounds them, and while they are suffering, goes up and executes them.
This is a major no-no as it shows intent to kill someone, and no remorse for doing so. The fact he did this has went across the line of justifiable self defense, and has aligned him with two counts of 1st Degree Murder.
Castle Doctrine protects you in cases of someone refusing to remove themselves from your home, people attempting to attack you after breaking in, someone attempting to rob your home with a weapon(crowbar, bat, firearm, ect.), and a few other reasons I can't be bothered with looking into.
The two major self-defense laws in the United States, Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine, would never be used to protect this man as he went cross the line of justifiable self defense.
For example: Under both laws, if someone has broken into your home, you have shot them, and they begin to retreat from your household, you stop attacking them. If you attempt to go after them, it's no longer self defense, it's 2nd Degree.
On the otherhand, if that person broke into your household with a weapon, shot at you, and you shoot them, and they attempt to retreat... You can kill them as they are still a threat.
Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground do not protect you in the cases of shooting someone who is unarmed and fleeing, someone who is incapacitated, and certainly does not protect you in the case of execution.
[QUOTE=Falubii;44706066]He parked his truck far away to make his home look empty. What a fucking sociopath.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't make any worse, IMO. The owner not being home doesn't make it any less bad to break into their house and do who knows what.
Dude is fucked up, sure. But this doesn't compound the issue at all.
I think castle doctrine is when you see intruders in your house and you shoot them, ONE round of shooting to end the threat. I'm okay with that. Don't want to get shot? Don't be an intruder.
What he did was shoot each one in turn, then shot them again to finish them off even though the threat was over. How anyone can see that as anything other than murder is beyond me. That they were burglars does not justify that deliberate killing of helpless people.
This is absolutely fucked up. "Sorry." As he continues to shoot the unarmed woman along with "Bitch."
When you know somebody is unarmed even if they are breaking in your house, why would you shoot to kill? I understand sometimes you don't have a choice some situations, but this seems very easy to avoid killing two kids jesus christ.
How can some of you even argue that "yes they did break in" but he "kind of totally is a psychopath who laid a trap out for some unarmed kids to shoot them dead without any mercy or second thought."?
[QUOTE=darunner;44709064]Doesn't make any worse, IMO. The owner not being home doesn't make it any less bad to break into their house and do who knows what.
Dude is fucked up, sure. But this doesn't compound the issue at all.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but he made his house look empty for the sole purpose of shooting them.
This is so evil I almost cried, what the hell. It hurt so badly reading what happened to the girl. I don't think I can stand to listen to the audio.
[QUOTE=bdd458;44709348]Yeah but he made his house look empty for the sole purpose of shooting them.[/QUOTE]
It makes no difference. They still chose to break into the home. It doesn't make their actions any less offensive.
I honestly think they both deserved it but at the same time sentencing the two to death was going a bit [I]too[/I] far. A sane man would've questioned them instead of killing them instantly.
guys, guys, relax.
he will go to prison where he will be rehabilitated for a year and then released back into the public! it's no biggie!
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