Horrifying Audio of Man Killing Unarmed Teens Released By Court
249 replies, posted
I for one will never break into a house in the US.
The system works.
After reading through this thread, I want to know something. I don't understand why people get so worked up about defending their homes. Is your property so important that you feel justified in killing any intruders? This is a genuine question, I do actually want to hear people's opinions on this.
I guess I never really thought about what I'd do if someone broke into my house, and I live in a country where firearms are banned (and effectively so, it's almost impossible to get your hands on one), so defending one's home becomes a lot harder in a way, yet easier as well since you know the intruder has, at the most, a knife. I want to hear what you guys think of this.
[QUOTE=CyberHawk;44711095]I for one will never break into a house in the US.
The system works.[/QUOTE]
In Africa, you go to other man's home and say good day to him.
In America, you don't go to other man's home.
[QUOTE=SomeENG;44709451]People keep pointing out that they're "kids" or "teens" like breaking into peoples houses is normal for youth. I don't see how their age makes a difference if they're realistically capable of physically harming someone. [/QUOTE]
As far as I gathered, he was sitting in the dark in his house and he shot first because he didn't want them to have the chance to draw their weapons on him. How the devil was he supposed that they were teens and that they were unarmed if the house was dark enough that people would assume he wasn't home
I'm not saying he was in the right, I'm just saying I don't think of the victims as "two unarmed helpless teenagers" rather than "two burglars"
I really regret listening to the audio recording. It totally fucked me up. Last night I spiralled into a shitty depressed feeling and couldn't shake it. Feeling much better today.
Stuff like this seriously makes me wish things were different. Especially reading Dai's explanation (the girl waiting in the car and dying a horrible death, just because she came to check on a friend, that really sucks).
I mean, even if you look at it in the worst light possible, as the guy being a burglar, stealing to fuel his drug habit (since he stole from his sister's house?), it still doesn't deserve death. I just wish the old man did the right thing and just called the cops. It sucks thinking it could have been some stupid dare, or a spur of the moment act of idiocy that ended up getting them killed.
Now two kids are dead, an old man lives the rest of his life in jail and will die in there, and two families are left without their children. The old man waiting for the girl to come downstairs was honestly twisted.
[QUOTE=Simski;44711168]As far as I gathered, he was sitting in the dark in his house and he shot first because he didn't want them to have the chance to draw their weapons on him. How the devil was he supposed that they were teens and that they were unarmed if the house was dark enough that people would assume he wasn't home
I'm not saying he was in the right, I'm just saying I don't think of the victims as "two unarmed helpless teenagers" rather than "two burglars"[/QUOTE]
spot the guy who didn't even bother watching the video in the OP
[editline]3rd May 2014[/editline]
it's actually a pretty easy game because i quoted his post
[QUOTE=loopoo;44711230]I really regret listening to the audio recording. It totally fucked me up. Last night I spiralled into a shitty depressed feeling and couldn't shake it. Feeling much better today.
Stuff like this seriously makes me wish things were different. Especially reading Dai's explanation (the girl waiting in the car and dying a horrible death, just because she came to check on a friend, that really sucks).
I mean, even if you look at it in the worst light possible, as the guy being a burglar, stealing to fuel his drug habit (since he stole from his sister's house?), it still doesn't deserve death. I just wish the old man did the right thing and just called the cops. It sucks thinking it could have been some stupid dare, or a spur of the moment act of idiocy that ended up getting them killed.
Now two kids are dead, an old man lives the rest of his life in jail and will die in there, and two families are left without their children. The old man waiting for the girl to come downstairs was honestly twisted.[/QUOTE]
I know that feel, happened to me when I watched an equally disturbing video recording (with audio) of an officer being shot and executed, it's fucked up. But after a while it stops being as disturbing. It has for me at least.
I jumped off a building and died. I wouldn't have died if the building were shorter. Fuck the building, what sort of idiot made it so tall?
And nothing of value was lost. Everyone is at wrong here. The idiots who broke into his house several dozen times and the psycho who executed them.
[QUOTE=deanpfr;44711810]And nothing of value was lost.[/QUOTE]
woahh you are [I]ice cold[/I]
why did I listen to that i feel fucking terrible now.
[QUOTE=bdd458;44709706]Trust me, I'm not in support of the teens killed here. However, I find that the man that killed them is a far greater monster who [I]lured them to their deaths [/I]out of paranoia. He planned their murders. They were stupid for breaking into his house, but god damn he lured them in just so he could fucking murder them.[/QUOTE]
He didn't lure them to their deaths. He didn't sprinkle candy going down the stairs. They, of their own free will, with no coercion on his part, broke into his house and wandered into a room that he happened to be in.
[QUOTE=CheeseMan;44711310]spot the guy who didn't even bother watching the video in the OP
[editline]3rd May 2014[/editline]
it's actually a pretty easy game because i quoted his post[/QUOTE]
I watched the entire video AND read the thread before posting, what are you even trying to imply?
What did I say that in any way contradicts what we hear in the video, go ahead and quote me.
[QUOTE=Shreddinger;44706065]Shooting people that break into your house is ok, even if they're unarmed, wtf?[/QUOTE]
Obviously fucking not for reasons like this.
Can't imagine the panic/anxiety she experienced in those 11 minutes of near silence..
The things he were saying on the tape were pretty true to be honest.
Those kids, left unpunished, would continue making life worse for other people. Why are they innocent in all of this? Because they're young? Youth shouldn't excuse terrible character and morals. They broke into someone's property, he killed them, and everyone is sympathetic towards them. "Poor thieves! If only they managed to steal more things and get away safely!"
It might seem like he's the evil one, because he's old, mumbles, and seems so secure about his actions. But he was minding his own business and not interfering with other people's lives. He kept to himself. They, however, forced their disgusting pettiness into other people's lives. Who are the real criminals here?
The only thing chilling about this whole ordeal is the tolerance that everyone has towards the two kids. What purpose did their lives serve? To steal things from hard working people? How is this world not better without them?
[QUOTE=Saphirx;44711559]I know that feel, happened to me when I watched an equally disturbing video recording (with audio) of an officer being shot and executed, it's fucked up. But after a while it stops being as disturbing. It has for me at least.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather I not get exposed to stuff that disturbs me to the point that it ever becomes less disturbing. I'd feel terrible if I could listen to this kind of stuff and just feel neutral about it.
[QUOTE=Rusty100;44710968]Uh, that only applies if you're a police officer, and under enough of a potential threat.[/QUOTE]
No that's basic firearm safety. Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to destroy. You should not draw a firearm on someone who in unarmed unless they attempt to attack you, and if it comes to that, you must have intent to destroy. Be it you intend to destroy their capability to harm you, or destroy their mere existence.
why do psychos have to break "one liners" like that when they kill people?
reminds me about the wounded dude executer in military court some time back who was like "just the turning of the mortail coil~ (mm oh yea)" or whatever and I really wondered how on top of cold blooded killing they have to disgrace the recently dead with some asinine blurts like that.
[QUOTE=MWSunder;44714584]The things he were saying on the tape were pretty true to be honest.
Those kids, left unpunished, would continue making life worse for other people. Why are they innocent in all of this? Because they're young? Youth shouldn't excuse terrible character and morals. They broke into someone's property, he killed them, and everyone is sympathetic towards them. "Poor thieves! If only they managed to steal more things and get away safely!"
It might seem like he's the evil one, because he's old, mumbles, and seems so secure about his actions. But he was minding his own business and not interfering with other people's lives. He kept to himself. They, however, forced their disgusting pettiness into other people's lives. Who are the real criminals here?
The only thing chilling about this whole ordeal is the tolerance that everyone has towards the two kids. What purpose did their lives serve? To steal things from hard working people? How is this world not better without them?[/QUOTE]
well they were two pretty white kids. obviously the public will sympathise.
Also your judgement is very arrognant. I'm sure there are people who could and would similarly reason why you should be killed.
[QUOTE=Falchion;44714770]why do psychos have to break "one liners" like that when they kill people?
reminds me about the wounded dude executer in military court some time back who was like "just the turning of the mortail coil~ (mm oh yea)" or whatever and I really wondered how on top of cold blooded killing they have to disgrace the recently dead with some asinine blurts like that.[/QUOTE]
They really should put a study into that. IIRC, the guy who attempted to assassinate Giffords actually said some weird shit before shooting as well. The whole thing with people doing one liners while killing people is weird. I mean I could understand if someone shot them, and they shot back at them and shouted, "FUCK YOU!" or something along those lines. I mean that's pretty much a natural reaction to pain and adrenaline, but what could exactly make someone say shit after they kill someone?
[editline]3rd May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=MWSunder;44714584]The things he were saying on the tape were pretty true to be honest.
Those kids, left unpunished, would continue making life worse for other people. Why are they innocent in all of this? Because they're young? Youth shouldn't excuse terrible character and morals. They broke into someone's property, he killed them, and everyone is sympathetic towards them. "Poor thieves! If only they managed to steal more things and get away safely!"
It might seem like he's the evil one, because he's old, mumbles, and seems so secure about his actions. But he was minding his own business and not interfering with other people's lives. He kept to himself. They, however, forced their disgusting pettiness into other people's lives. Who are the real criminals here?
The only thing chilling about this whole ordeal is the tolerance that everyone has towards the two kids. What purpose did their lives serve? To steal things from hard working people? How is this world not better without them?[/QUOTE]No one in this thread has really shown any tolerance to their actions, but rather is condemning the fact the man ambushed and executed the two thieves after they were incapacitated.
The fact that shooting intruders is generally acceptable in the United States is disturbing enough for me, even if it's just to incapacitate them.
[QUOTE=Niko_38;44715227]The fact that shooting intruders is generally acceptable in the United States is disturbing enough for me, even if it's just to incapacitate them.[/QUOTE]
It depends on the situation. You are allowed to shoot intruders if you reasonably feel that your life is in danger; you aren't allowed to kill them for shits n'giggles. What this man did is definitely not justified by the law, nor do I believe it is seen as acceptable by our country. He was basically acting as an executioner, not a home defender.
[QUOTE=Fausty;44706109]They broke into his house over 30 times. Instead of calling the police he killed them one after the other in his basement. This wasn't self defense, it was pure and simple murder.[/QUOTE]
While I understand you're upset over the death of two unarmed teens, look at what you just said
[QUOTE=Fausty;44706109]They broke into his house over 30 times.[/QUOTE]
If this was the first break in, then there may be a valid point. But this is the thirtieth time these fuckers broke into this guys house. Do you not think he's called the police before? Do you not think he's upped his security system and tried to prevent further break ins? also, they broke in THIRTY FUCKING TIMES. Something about them constantly breaking in, knowing that the owner is aware that he's been broken in, and how many times and all, makes them look like they have something that may make them capable of doing such a thing, like maybe a gun or weapon.
Is it sad that two young kids died? Yes. Is it worse that they were shot at numerous times and were unarmed? Absolutely. But I have no remorse for these kinds of people. They knew what they were doing was wrong, they knew that this could result in them being seriously hurt, killed, or arrested, yet they continued to break into this guys house.
I've heard an analogy that a youth in constant trouble with the law is akin to a dog pissing on the family furniture. I mean, what do you do when a dog pisses on everything and wont learn to go to the bathroom the right way? You let him go, right?
haha holy shit you motherfuckers are rediculous
yeah sitting for 6 hours in a room with gun at the ready waiting for the kids to come in to murder them is totally cool cause the kids broke in
sure the kids were stupid, the dude was fucking insane though
[QUOTE=CaptainRagequit;44715477]While I understand you're upset over the death of two unarmed teens, look at what you just said
If this was the first break in, then there may be a valid point. But this is the thirtieth time these fuckers broke into this guys house. Do you not think he's called the police before? Do you not think he's upped his security system and tried to prevent further break ins? also, they broke in THIRTY FUCKING TIMES. Something about them constantly breaking in, knowing that the owner is aware that he's been broken in, and how many times and all, makes them look like they have something that may make them capable of doing such a thing, like maybe a gun or weapon.
Is it sad that two young kids died? Yes. Is it worse that they were shot at numerous times and were unarmed? Absolutely. But I have no remorse for these kinds of people. They knew what they were doing was wrong, they knew that this could result in them being seriously hurt, killed, or arrested, yet they continued to break into this guys house.
I've heard an analogy that a youth in constant trouble with the law is akin to a dog pissing on the family furniture. I mean, what do you do when a dog pisses on everything and wont learn to go to the bathroom the right way? You let him go, right?[/QUOTE]
Well that's a shitty, demeaning analogy and it's sounding damn near psychotic. Those kids were a couple of douchebag burglars, and shitty ones at that but how can that ever justify murder?
Could have just hold them there and pointed a gun to their head and call the cops, cold blooded execution is very uncalled for. Even with the speech in the end, this is insane, and anyone fucked up enough to kill someone should take responsibilities for it.
And yes, the robbers are ass-holes and do deserve punishment, jail-time but saying they deserve this? That is rather fucked.
[QUOTE=CaptainRagequit;44715477]
If this was the first break in, then there may be a valid point. But this is the thirtieth time these fuckers broke into this guys house. Do you not think he's called the police before? Do you not think he's upped his security system and tried to prevent further break ins? also, they broke in THIRTY FUCKING TIMES. Something about them constantly breaking in, knowing that the owner is aware that he's been broken in, and how many times and all, makes them look like they have something that may make them capable of doing such a thing, like maybe a gun or weapon.
Is it sad that two young kids died? Yes. Is it worse that they were shot at numerous times and were unarmed? Absolutely. But I have no remorse for these kinds of people. They knew what they were doing was wrong, they knew that this could result in them being seriously hurt, killed, or arrested, yet they continued to break into this guys house.
I've heard an analogy that a youth in constant trouble with the law is akin to a dog pissing on the family furniture. I mean, what do you do when a dog pisses on everything and wont learn to go to the bathroom the right way? You let him go, right?[/QUOTE]
This 30 times figure is from the killer's brother. He only made 1 police report about a break-in. Also, I find it highly doubtful that he did strengthen his home's security, since these kids obviously had no trouble breaking in again.
The way I see it, he had plenty of chances to find a better way to solve the problem. He could have rigged up cameras, gotten better locks, barred windows, etc. He could have made more police reports. Instead, he decided to camp out and lie in wait for them so he could shoot them and stop the break-ins for good.
Also, people /= dogs. Your analogy is incredibly superficial.
If I had a gun and someone broke into my house, I'd use it to scare them and if they had weapons and were willing to fight back, I'd use the gun.
But this...this is a fucking execution. This guy is clearly fucked up in the head.
[QUOTE=Niko_38;44715227]The fact that shooting intruders is generally acceptable in the United States is disturbing enough for me, even if it's just to incapacitate them.[/QUOTE]
Here in the US your home(house/apartment/cardboard box) is your castle. It's the safest place you can be, the most private. The place where you and your rights reign supreme. That's why if you break into someone's home you are fair game to be shot. If you are an intruder, in someone's home without their permission, you are considered scum and no one will cry over your death...except maybe your friends or family.
This guy though forfeits all that by shooting helpless people. He had his chance, the first time he shot both of them. If he had stopped there he wouldn't be going to prison. He chose to execute them when they were totally helpless though, that shit is not okay.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;44716424]Here in the US your home(house/apartment/cardboard box) is your castle. It's the safest place you can be, the most private. The place where you and your rights reign supreme. That's why if you break into someone's home you are fair game to be shot. If you are an intruder, in someone's home without their permission, you are considered scum and no one will cry over your death...except maybe your friends or family.
This guy though forfeits all that by shooting helpless people. He had his chance, the first time he shot both of them. If he had stopped there he wouldn't be going to prison. He chose to execute them when they were totally helpless though, that shit is not okay.[/QUOTE]
The punishment in many of these cases doesn't fit the crime though, that's my main issue with the whole idea.
[QUOTE=iFail;44716283]This 30 times figure is from the killer's brother. He only made 1 police report about a break-in. Also, I find it highly doubtful that he did strengthen his home's security, since these kids obviously had no trouble breaking in again.
The way I see it, he had plenty of chances to find a better way to solve the problem. He could have rigged up cameras, gotten better locks, barred windows, etc. He could have made more police reports. Instead, he decided to camp out and lie in wait for them so he could shoot them and stop the break-ins for good.
Also, people /= dogs. Your analogy is incredibly superficial.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, the 30 times figure has been re-iterated by news outlets and people on FP who were against what this guy did. If the figure isn't reputable, don't use it in an argument, dont even use it in an opinion. I only used it after i saw it being reported and mentioned several times. But here's the thing, thirty times is a big number, and it may not be accurate. But how off do you think that number is? How far away from 30 could the actual number be? 25? 20? 15? 10? Those numbers are still very high, especially when it's the same two people constantly breaking in. Also, It's funny how the post I quoted used the figure, and it wasn't questioned, even though it was used in defense of the slain kids and not the homeowner. If you know or believe that figure is inaccurate or unreputable, DON'T USE IT. PERIOD. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT DOESN'T EVEN HELP YOUR ARGUMENT.
Secondly, his audio recorder was supposedly a part of his home security, which was only a component. Not to mention, no home security is 100 percent B&E proof. You will never find a reputable security firm boast that there is no way to get past their defense. Even in a shitty movie like The Purge, you can see that, even they admit, not all security systems are people-proof. Sometimes, it takes a few setups to really get a decent system down. The problem is that most people don't know this because most people don't get their houses broken into that much. Very few people get their houses broken into 25-30 times within a short span by the same person/people.
Thirdly, This occurred in a small town in Minnesota, where the crime may not be that low compared to nearby areas, but compared to the US, it's minimal. The police department most likely just took a police report and didn't investigate. They probably even stopped responding to his calls. When the police in town cannot help, you are left to your own devices. He did what he had to do to stop the criminals. My guess is that he didn't know what they looked like and who they were. For all he could've known, it could've been an armed man who could've easily killed him as he killed them. He simply took no risks, and after shooting what was probably their central mass (which can easily cause fatal damage) he finished them off as moreso an act of mercy. If he landed his hits in the right spot, it would've still killed the kids, but they would've suffered for longer.
Finally, people are fucking animals. At the very least, dogs have the same basic functions and needs, many have a sense or system of loyalty, and a wide range of emotions and a very minor level of ethics. These kids can't even follow a basic law of "don't break into people's houses", and most likely did this because they disliked the man or thought it was funny. They clearly lacked ethics. In some aspects, they were less than dogs.
[QUOTE=Niko_38;44715815]Well that's a shitty, demeaning analogy and it's sounding damn near psychotic. Those kids were a couple of douchebag burglars, and shitty ones at that but how can that ever justify murder?[/QUOTE]
It's a great analogy that came out of a program derived to keep youth's from doing hard time in jails. It came from the original 1978 program, Scared Straight. It may be a flawed one, but it's an understandable correlation.
Also, what does justify murder to you people? Facepunch likes to play the peace card as much as they can. Half of you fuckers would probably let the robber come face to face with you and point a gun to your head before you'd even think of fighting back, and by then it's over. Pacifism does not work in this case.
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