Unsurprisingly, Donald Trump supports waterboarding and will move to end it's "status as a war crime
455 replies, posted
[QUOTE=wystan;49693162]Non-US citizens aren't entitled to Habeas Corpus.
Now comes the slippery slope post about saying how I want to torture Europeans or something.[/QUOTE]
no I can and people have felt entirely comfortable destroying your wafer-thin logic by using examples of the worst people on this planet, like ISIS fighters and convicted serial rapists and murderers.
The conversation takes place on two levels, the practical and the moral, and you have defended your position on neither.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693084]Yea that makes no sense from a PR point of view, millions of people will never be ok with torture, there is no reason making it public.[/QUOTE]
what? if they were making up data, why not fabricate some that backs it up? doesn't it make more sense, from a PR point of view, to say "yeah its terrible but hey it works"? you think they went with "yeah it's terrible also it never worked" because this is [I]good[/I] PR? do you have any idea what PR even means?
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
You think it does because you don't understand how humans work. In real life practical scenarios this doesn't really seem to be the case.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
You're actually right about something, it can be used to give hardons to braindead republicans with a fetish for mutilating foriegners
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
the other use you mentioned is that it keeps people from turning to terrorism
and you then discredited yourself with a source that said the exact opposite
[quote]2. Torture doesn't work because it breed ill will. As will discuss later in the week, the French won the battle but lost the war. Though they killed the leaders of the FLN, their methods turned the population against them. Their extreme methods lost the population, as did our early tactics in Iraq.[/quote]
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
The only use I can think of is giving satisfaction to a fucking sociopath.
Regardless of the morality of waterboarding, propaganda is a major factor in the war against ISIS. Legalizing and employing waterboarding or other forms of torture would add more fuel to the fire, and it'd be even worse if specifics were ever leaked. I think the public image of the US has to be a high priority, otherwise ISIS will have a much easier time attracting more members and support. They can't be allowed to push the narrative that the US is the bad guy. That's why I think Trump is by far the worst candidate for this war, he's a brash loudmouth that'll give them plenty of ammunition for propaganda with his anti-Muslim policies, disregard for civilian casualties and support of torture.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]Such as
[QUOTE=Damjen;49693219]The only use I can think of is giving satisfaction to a fucking sociopath.[/QUOTE]
That's narrow thinking.
[editline]7th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49693213]the other use you mentioned is that it keeps people from turning to terrorism
and you then discredited yourself with a source that said the exact opposite[/QUOTE]
That same source you all didn't accept?
Waterboarding will kill you.
[B]I repeat. IT WILL KILL YOU.[/B]
It simulates drowning.
Water cure (which is another form of water torture) can lead to water intoxication or ruptured organs, most if not all forms of torture will kill a person before you get the information out of them. It's just fucked up, you could get the same result by punching them in the face.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
No it doesnt, you're just a sociopathic sadomasochist who loves torture because you like when people suffer.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693225]That same source you all didn't accept?[/QUOTE]
aint it crazy how you can like
agree with one thing
disagree with another
but the million dollar question is whether or not you agree with that bit
because if you don't, then get to explaining how barbaric policies don't turn people against you
and if you do, you better start listing the numerous other 'advantages' to torture
It's painfully obvious when someone has come to a conclusion through emotion and then tried to back it up with logic afterwards. You'll see tons of contradictions, clear fallacies, and ignoring every fact in their way. Wystan's reasoning for supporting torture clearly come from hatred, because otherwise he'd be able to see his constant logical contradictions and nonsense. But he thinks he's better than that. So he has to come up with a flimsy logical structure to say that he's supporting torture for "pragmatic" reasons. If he really had that mindset, though, he'd see the glaring holes in his logic. The only reason he's able to ignore them is because supporting torture is so important to him, because those damn dirty terrorists deserve it in his eyes.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;49693280]No it doesnt, you're just a sociopathic sadomasochist who loves torture because you like when people suffer.[/QUOTE]
That isn't true, I don't know why you all want to label and insult me so bad. I haven't done the same to you people. I don't enjoy human suffering, I'm not a sociopath. I just value my country and the lives of my fellow citizens more than anything else and have absolutely no qualms usually whatever means to fight those who want to kills my countrymen.
Liberals trying to tell me about doublethink, that's rich.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693298]That isn't true, I don't know why you all want to label and insult me so bad. I haven't done the same to you people. I don't enjoy human suffering, I'm not a sociopath. I just value my country and the lives of my fellow citizens more than anything else and have absolutely no qualms usually whatever means to fight those who want to kills my countrymen.[/QUOTE]
"I don't enjoy human suffering" says the man advocating for humans to be purposefully made to suffer
[QUOTE=wystan;49693298]That isn't true, I don't know why you all want to label and insult me so bad. I haven't done the same to you people. I don't enjoy human suffering, I'm not a sociopath. I just value my country and the lives of my fellow citizens more than anything else and have absolutely no qualms usually whatever means to fight those who want to kills my countrymen.[/QUOTE]
So you admit to being a sociopath while saying that you are not a sociopath.
Okay
[QUOTE=wystan;49693089]Been over this, that shit is deplorable and shouldn't be happening, I won't ever defend that.[/QUOTE]
But you are! How do you not fucking get that? You've said this whole thread, that a person being tortured will surrender information, if that information is bunk, then they just get more torture! So, how exactly in your world, does an innocent person not get tortured?
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;49693301]"I don't enjoy human suffering" says the man advocating for humans to be purposefully made to suffer[/QUOTE]
You can advocate something and not enjoy it. I'm pro-legalization of weed but am personally against it.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693314]You can advocate something and not enjoy it. I'm pro-legalization of weed but am personally against it.[/QUOTE]
Did you seriously just compare legalizing pot to torture
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;49693313]But you are! How do you not fucking get that? You've said this whole thread, that a person being tortured will surrender information, if that information is bunk, then they just get more torture! So, how exactly in your world, does an innocent person not get tortured?[/QUOTE]
You can not know the desired information and still not be innocent. I said earlier, torturing a low level courier or militant won't net much.
[editline]7th February 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starlight 456;49693319]Did you seriously just compare legalizing pot to torture[/QUOTE]
No, I was giving an example of advocating something but not enjoying it, chill.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693298]That isn't true, I don't know why you all want to label and insult me so bad. I haven't done the same to you people. I don't enjoy human suffering, I'm not a sociopath. I just value my country and the lives of my fellow citizens more than anything else and have absolutely no qualms usually whatever means to fight those who want to kills my countrymen.
Liberals trying to tell me about doublethink, that's rich.[/QUOTE]They're calling you that because you don't really come off as empathetic or sympathetic.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
So you go from your key argument that it was always a good method of info gathering to this trite
[QUOTE=Damjen;49693305]So you admit to being a sociopath while saying that you are not a sociopath.
Okay[/QUOTE]
Please define sociopath for me.
Wystan, when you hear that ISIS tortures people, does that work as a deterrent for you? Does that make you want to fight them less?
If not, why would you think it works the other way around?
[QUOTE=wystan;49693322]You can not know the desired information and still not be innocent. I said earlier, torturing a low level courier or militant won't net much.
[editline]7th February 2016[/editline]
No, I was giving an example of advocating something but not enjoying it, chill.[/QUOTE]
Did you even read the sentence you said to yourself before you posted it? It's literal nonsense.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
still waiting for all them other uses
[QUOTE=wystan;49693322]You can not know the desired information and still not be innocent. I said earlier, torturing a low level courier or militant won't net much.[/QUOTE]
This is some impressiove logic you've developed.
Innocent people shouldn't be tortured, however there's no way to tell if someone is innocent by the info they tell you because if they don't tell you, then they're simply too low-level to know the info, but if they do, than they're a terrorist
Reminds me of the "if she sinks and drowns, she wasn't a witch, if she floats, she was a witch and we burn her"
[QUOTE=wystan;49693333]Please define sociopath for me.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and [B][U]who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.[/U][/B]
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sociopath"]Source[/URL]
[QUOTE=wystan;49693314]You can advocate something and not enjoy it. I'm pro-legalization of weed but am personally against it.[/QUOTE]
The legality of weed is an issue of personal liberty, torture is about the government's ability to strip personal liberty. The ethics of the action are far more significant here.
[QUOTE=wystan;49693182]Said it already. Torture has more uses outside info gathering.[/QUOTE]
Just because Ramesy Bolton was able to make Theon his bitch through torture does not mean the US has to mimic him to achieve the same ends.
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