• Nevada Prison To Charge Prisoners For Food and Healthcare
    183 replies, posted
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43850569]You don't see the obvious problems of those with little money and little job opportunity being forced into crime, then into jail, then they become even further indebted, come out of jail, and have fewer job opportunities? I think you may need to rethink your entire view.[/QUOTE] Honestly I think you need to rethink your entire view. Nobody is being held gunpoint being told to rob a store or steal a bike. You're acting as if the government made EVERYONE choose to do crime. Sure the government is a piece of shit just like a lot of people in this world. But you're simply acting as if 99% of the people in jail are there because they couldn't find a job... Sure there are people who had to resort to crime, or people who get put in jail for downloading some shitty song or a terrible Michael Bay movie but that's an entirely different discussion. My point being: Most of the people in jail, are in jail because they're a murdering/stealing piece of shit. So I don't see the problem with them having to pay for their stay. Although I do think that they should also give them an opportunity to earn money while being in prison.
/[QUOTE=Rangergxi;43850339]They should also make children who are under the care of the state pay for their social workers, food and housing. [I]No more free lunches. [/I] Prisons should be costly for the state, to discourage them from needlessly imprisoning people.[/QUOTE] Exactly The privatised prisons that they have got in the US is the biggest load of bullshit
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850628]Honestly I think you need to rethink your entire view. Nobody is being held gunpoint being told to rob a store or steal a bike. You're acting as if the government made EVERYONE choose to do crime. Sure the government is a piece of shit just like a lot of people in this world. But you're simply acting as if 99% of the people in jail are there because they couldn't find a job... Sure there are people who had to resort to crime, or people who get put in jail for downloading some shitty song or a terrible Michael Bay movie but that's an entirely different discussion. My point being: Most of the people in jail, are in jail because they're a murdering/stealing piece of shit. So I don't see the problem with them having to pay for their stay. Although I do think that they should also give them an opportunity to earn money while being in prison.[/QUOTE] Does the fact that crime is mostly committed by the poor not tell you that poverty, lack of work, lack of upwards mobility is the root cause of much crime? That they're not committing these crimes because they want to, but because they have no other way to survive or make money, they have no other way to provide for families. You want to treat them like savages and barbarians and expect them to come out better people for it, and expect them to not repeat offend, or end up in these situations again. I must point out how short sighted, ignorant, and naive this view is. [editline]9th February 2014[/editline] Prisons in the US are run for PROFIT. They make money off every prisoner they have inside their walls. They also use the prisoners as free labour. And you're saying they should make more money? Also, if you live in a gangland area, you may very well be held at gunpoint to go rob a store for a gang.
#prison4profit
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850628]Honestly I think you need to rethink your entire view. Nobody is being held gunpoint being told to rob a store or steal a bike. You're acting as if the government made EVERYONE choose to do crime. Sure the government is a piece of shit just like a lot of people in this world. But you're simply acting as if 99% of the people in jail are there because they couldn't find a job... Sure there are people who had to resort to crime, or people who get put in jail for downloading some shitty song or a terrible Michael Bay movie but that's an entirely different discussion. My point being: Most of the people in jail, are in jail because they're a murdering/stealing piece of shit. So I don't see the problem with them having to pay for their stay. Although I do think that they should also give them an opportunity to earn money while being in prison.[/QUOTE] I suppose that its just a coincidence that there is disproportionately high amount of minorities and the poor incarcerated then, huh?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;43850669]Does the fact that crime is mostly committed by the poor not tell you that poverty, lack of work, lack of upwards mobility is the root cause of much crime? That they're not committing these crimes because they want to, but because they have no other way to survive or make money, they have no other way to provide for families. You want to treat them like savages and barbarians and expect them to come out better people for it, and expect them to not repeat offend, or end up in these situations again. I must point out how short sighted, ignorant, and naive this view is. [editline]9th February 2014[/editline] Prisons in the US are run for PROFIT. They make money off every prisoner they have inside their walls. They also use the prisoners as free labour. And you're saying they should make more money?[/QUOTE] You're acting as if 90% of the people in jail are hard working citizens who were just trying to provide for their family's..... Yeah right and then you're telling me I'm short sighted, ignorant, and naive. Have a look in the mirror, or better yet have a look inside of some prisons.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850729]You're acting as if 90% of the people in jail are hard working citizens who were just trying to provide for their family's..... Yeah right and then you're telling me I'm short sighted, ignorant, and naive. Have a look in the mirror, or better yet have a look inside of some prisons.[/QUOTE] A large population of people in American prisoners are in there for dumb reasons.
I have looked inside prisons. That's why I have the view I have. I didn't say that and you'd know that if you read what I said. People who end up in prison are not in there because they one day said "OH YEAH MOFUCKA IMA COMMIT CRIIIIIIME TODAY". No. Not even slightly. They're there because they had to feed themselves like everyone else and no one would hire them at a real job, they're forced to pay some kind of gang protection fee, they're in a gang themselves, or any number of reasons that pushes a person to desperation. They don't have the opportunities you have or might have because they don't live in an area with those opportunities. What do you expect them to do? What do you expect treating them like this will do for the recidivism rates? Do you think we should simply punish people who have to commit crime? Not help them fit back into society? They won't fit themselves back in after they're broken in prison, so you just want an endless chain of sending people back and forth from prison because they don't fit in anywhere else? Please, have a serious look at your views
I haven't exactly been brought up in a mansion either, I grew up in one of the poorest towns in my country, I started from nothing. And maybe it's different for murica but here from what I've personally seen. Crime isn't something they choose for because they need to support their family, it's something they do because they are simply fucked up individuals.
yeah you don't know what you're talking about if that's what you legitimately think
Maybe it's because I have a personally lived in between the poor and the criminal that I have this zero-tolerance policy. I just cannot defend the people in jail or justify them being there in any way.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850784]I haven't exactly been brought up in a mansion either, I grew up in one of the poorest towns in my country, I started from nothing. And maybe it's different for murica but here from what I've personally seen. Crime isn't something they choose for because they need to support their family, it's something they do because they are simply fucked up individuals.[/QUOTE] nope
[QUOTE=Maloof?;43850941]nope[/QUOTE] Great post, incredible arguments. Overall great addition to the thread!
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850956]Great post, incredible arguments. Overall great addition to the thread![/QUOTE] thanks Your anecdotal and localised subjective experience seems to have given you a very unforgiving and unrealistic view of prison populations and I wonder if perhaps exercising empathy instead of just going 'nah they are just fucked up individuals' (which is itself a hugely unempathetic view that doesn't look at any sort of objectivity or subtlety in behaviour) would result in you being able to humanise them a little bit more, which is the key factor in helping them to reform and become helpful members of society again. Don't get a job at a correctional facility please
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850806]Maybe it's because I have a personally lived in between the poor and the criminal that I have this zero-tolerance policy. I just cannot defend the people in jail or justify them being there in any way.[/QUOTE] Someone as biased towards it as yourself, should not be the one making the decisions affecting it then. If you think everyone in prison should pay to eat, maybe we should put you in a building where everyone is a hustler or a crook, strip you of contact with the outside world, reduce you to sitting in concrete box, and starve your ass to boot. Maybe then you'd become a functioning, well rounded person who is in no way bitter towards society.
[QUOTE=Tmaxx;43850511]emotion has no place in the law, or determining people's fates. I don't care if a person raped 34895734 people and killed 12 billion more, he deserves a fair trial and possible second chance.[/QUOTE] If emotion has no place in the law then our jails/prisons would be beyond over-flowing. Everyone would be incarcerated for misdemeanors. Probation and Parole are emotional parts of the law.
Charging them for healthcare in a prison is just plain retarded imo. Food, so long as they keep their standard meals free and those meals are regulated to a minimum quality, I could see no issue with having a higher quality extra additions being available ac a cost. However, only through external funds or through work hours at the prison(which needs to be regulated much better imo), but those would have to have stringent regulations as well, to prevent them from being needed to get balanced meals or meals that taste good. Maybe being able to purchase snack foods with money your family sends you and limit their purchase prices to the current supermarket costs?
I don't understand how everyone is acting as if people in prison are pathetic. I just think most people who are in prison are scum and thus I don't really give 2 shits about them. Then again maybe the cultural differences are really big and I'm unaware of the fact that the people in american prisons really are hard working, tree hugging poor sads who need help.
and if you read the article [quote] Under the new policy, Elko County inmates will be exempt from the fees if they work at the jail or are incarcerated for less than 24 hours. Inmates ultimately found innocent will be reimbursed.[/quote] Thats not a bad gig at all. [quote]“I was aghast that anyone was even thinking of doing this,” he told The Associated Press. “It is unconstitutional — cruel and unusual punishment.”[/quote] The thing is with this, it has to be both cruel [I]and[/I] unusual. Paying for food is neither.
[quote]Those without any money would see their account accrue a negative balance, and that balance would remain in the event the inmate was released but later returned to jail for whatever reason.[/quote] [quote]Under the new policy, Elko County inmates will be exempt from the fees if they work at the jail or are incarcerated for less than 24 hours. Inmates ultimately found innocent will be reimbursed.[/quote] This is just..weird. The only way I thought it could [I][B]possibly[/B][/I] work was if the prisoners worked for money, and then spent some of that money on food and such. But if people that are working don't have to pay for food, what are they trying to do? Maybe try to discourage people from doing nothing with their time? I don't know.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43851094]I don't understand how everyone is acting as if people in prison are pathetic. I just think most people who are in prison are scum and thus I don't really give 2 shits about them. Then again maybe the cultural differences are really big and I'm unaware of the fact that the people in american prisons really are hard working, tree hugging poor sads who need help.[/QUOTE] no you're just not getting the central reason people commit crime and keep acting like your view of it is strangely objective and true when it just isn't.
[QUOTE=Hunterdnrc;43851127]This is just..weird. The only way I thought it could [I][B]possibly[/B][/I] work was if the prisoners worked for money, and then spent some of that money on food and such. But if people that are working don't have to pay for food, what are they trying to do? Maybe try to discourage people from doing nothing with their time? I don't know.[/QUOTE] Because why would deadbeats be rewarded with free meals? Housing them isnt free.
It seems like he thinks the reason that people commit crimes is because they are dickheads - and that's the end of their story. Which just shows a huge amount of ignorance regarding how and why people end up acting like dickheads. Where the compassion at, yo.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850729]Have a look in the mirror, or better yet have a look inside of some prisons.[/QUOTE] have a look down the road, away from your middle class neighborhood, and maybe you'll understand what he's talking about
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;43851259]have a look down the road, away from your middle class neighborhood, and maybe you'll understand what he's talking about[/QUOTE] nono apparently he grew up super poor and surrounded by criminals which is why he has such a deep knowledge of the intricacies of their social position
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850806]Maybe it's because I have a personally lived in between the poor and the criminal that I have this zero-tolerance policy. I just cannot defend the people in jail or justify them being there in any way.[/QUOTE] welcome to the facepunch sociopathic users list
I'm not trying to be nasty, Strontboer. It's just important that you understand that dehumanising people in prison just because the events of their lives have led them to prison doesn't help society at all.
[QUOTE=FunnyStarRunner;43850343]But... why would prisoners have money?[/QUOTE] A lot of prisons allow inmates to hold down jobs while they're incarcerated, so as a result they're required to pay them.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43851094]I don't understand how everyone is acting as if people in prison are pathetic. I just think most people who are in prison are scum and thus I don't really give 2 shits about them. Then again maybe the cultural differences are really big and I'm unaware of the fact that the people in american prisons really are hard working, tree hugging poor sads who need help.[/QUOTE] It's funny because you're from the Netherlands, which aren't even remotely similar to US prisons.
[QUOTE=Foda;43850326]because society caused them to make their mistakes. that's what crime is.[/QUOTE] The world is shit for everyone, you don't see me going around robbing people. [editline]9th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43851332]Starve to death or steal food, pick one.[/QUOTE] Head to any church and they'll be happy to feed you, clothe you, and bathe you. There's absolutely no excuse to steal.
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