• Nevada Prison To Charge Prisoners For Food and Healthcare
    183 replies, posted
[QUOTE=turd dad;43852304]Are we discussing the same thing?[/QUOTE] you're saying people choose to steal. we say that their economical situation is often what ends up pressuring them into stealing. then you bring up that most criminals aren't even in jail for theft so the discussion is irrelevant, so one would assume that you're saying that the argument that pressure is what leads a lot of people to committing crimes is also irrelevant
capitalism +1 make prisons for profit
[QUOTE=areolop;43852396]Thats only the US marshal's. I found a better one than the one I even posted. [url]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p12tar9112.pdf[/url] Table 3[/QUOTE] even better for me, it puts larceny at 3.2%
[QUOTE=turd dad;43852424]even better for me, it puts larceny at 3.2%[/QUOTE] ... which is under property theft... which is what you said. [QUOTE=turd dad;43852076]And it's all irrelevant anyway because 85% of prisoners are incarcerated for drugs or public order offenses, with another 8% for violence. Only around 5 or 6 percent of criminals are in for property theft.[/QUOTE] Drugs + Public order: You: 85%, Data: 27.2% Violence: You: 8%, Data: 53.6% Property: You: 5(or6)%: Data: 18.6%
[quote]Good idea, Why should the taxpayer pay for their mistakes. [/quote] Imagine this scenario. A corrupt government arrests you for questionable reasons, you are forced to pay for food and etc, yet prisoners generally don't earn enough to do it so they are jailed indefinitely. The latter part is swept under the rug. Does this still seem like a good idea? Conspiracy Theories 101.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43850284]Good idea, Why should the taxpayer pay for their mistakes.[/QUOTE] I believe, that prison itself tends to be a extraneous measure. By simply shooting every violent criminal, or sex offender, we can reduce prison healthcare costs to 0%.
[QUOTE=Xystus234;43852520]I believe, that prison itself tends to be a extraneous measure. By simply shooting every violent criminal, or sex offender, we can reduce prison healthcare costs to 0%.[/QUOTE] I think someone doesn't understand you were being satirical. Agree though. Not all prisoners are "serial killers and rapists" and should have rights.
[QUOTE=areolop;43852468]... which is under property theft... which is what you said.[/QUOTE] property theft is a big catchall number that that only a fraction of is relevant to the discussion. In absence of more specific data I gave the big catchall number
[QUOTE=turd dad;43852589]property theft is a big catchall number that that only a fraction of is relevant to the discussion. In absence of more specific data I gave the big catchall number[/QUOTE] No you didn't, you gave a teeny tiny number that represents a specific subcategory of property theft. The entire theft category is relevant to this discussion
I'm not okay with people defining what right and wrong are, and then saying you have to give them money if you don't fit into the good people list. Incarcerating dangerous criminals is a necessary evil, but imprisoning people and then telling them, "Now you owe us for this inconvenience," is downright disturbing.
[QUOTE=Maloof?;43852651]No you didn't, you gave a teeny tiny number that represents a specific subcategory of property theft. The entire theft category is relevant to this discussion[/QUOTE] motor vehicle theft isn't relevant to people stealing food to live
[QUOTE=turd dad;43852877]motor vehicle theft isn't relevant to people stealing food to live[/QUOTE] Sure it is. People steal cars all the time and part them out.
[QUOTE=turd dad;43852877]motor vehicle theft isn't relevant to people stealing food to live[/QUOTE] Do you even have a clue about how these things work? You buy a car, you sell it (or parts of it), you make money, you can now buy food
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43851094]I don't understand how everyone is acting as if people in prison are pathetic. I just think most people who are in prison are scum and thus I don't really give 2 shits about them. Then again maybe the cultural differences are really big and I'm unaware of the fact that the people in american prisons really are hard working, tree hugging poor sads who need help.[/QUOTE] We should just execute everyone in prison then regardless of what they've done. I mean like you said, they're just irredeemable good-for-nothing scum so they'd be better off dead. Would you like that? God, you're insufferable and your view of prisons is just utter shit.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43851094]I don't understand how everyone is acting as if people in prison are pathetic. I just think most people who are in prison are scum and thus I don't really give 2 shits about them. Then again maybe the cultural differences are really big and I'm unaware of the fact that the people in american prisons really are hard working, tree hugging poor sads who need help.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Strontboer;43850784]I haven't exactly been brought up in a mansion either, I grew up in one of the poorest towns in my country, I started from nothing. And maybe it's different for murica but here from what I've personally seen. Crime isn't something they choose for because they need to support their family, it's something they do because they are simply fucked up individuals.[/QUOTE] Do you believe that being poor turns people into scum and fucked up individuals? Because more poor people are incarcerated proportionally than rich.
[QUOTE=turd dad;43852877]motor vehicle theft isn't relevant to people stealing food to live[/QUOTE] yeah it's not like they're going to get rid of a car with hot plates and an illegal vin number they stole it obviously to have something to drive around in! Nope, i'm being sarcastic, that car was turned into scrap by a scrap shop and he was paid for the car which let him eat.
[QUOTE=DiscoBiscut;43850328]Because everyone deserves a second chance.[/QUOTE] Nah. There are some people so badly fucked in the head that they will never rehabilitate. You can look at the world through rose-tinted glasses all you want but it doesn't change the fact that they do exist.
[QUOTE=TestECull;43854634]Nah. There are some people so badly fucked in the head that they will never rehabilitate. You can look at the world through rose-tinted glasses all you want but it doesn't change the fact that they do exist.[/QUOTE] and that is your opinion and opinions can be wrong!
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43852147]Like I said before, I don't really know how life is in america or any other country. I only have experience with my own country. Our justice system lacks severe punishment to those who really deserve it, let me elaborate : people who do the worst things only get very light punishment. Thus meaning that you'd really have to fuck up badly to get in jail here. The justice system here is really good, it just lacks proper punishment to those who deserve it. Now you can mock me all you want but I don't wish for anyone to have the same youth as I had, I really grew up in the most terrible area's of the country where I'd wake up to go to school and had to walk around a puddle of blood because someone's head had been smashed in. I'm not saying that some people don't commit crimed because they need to. I'm simply saying that with most of the people I've seen that's not the case. Our country has massive problems with immigration and people coming here to live of other people's money. There are so many safety nets for the poor and unhealthy people that it's piss easy to live of the governments money. Then there's the way money is spend in this country, if you were to compare some elderly homes with certain prisons you'd almost say they should be swapped. It's horrible really how terrible elderly are treated and wonderful prisoners are living. Like I said, I don't know how it's like in other country's. When I said that tax payers shouldn't pay for other people's mistakes I meant it. Just not for everywhere so I'm sorry if I offended people but this is just my view.[/QUOTE] Prison shouldn't be about punishment, it should be about rehabilitation. All you have with punishment is a pissed-off ex-con without a chance in the world of having a stable life from now on that was brought up in shit, feels wronged by society and the system, and now has to deal with even more injustice. Rehabilitation, though? Productive members of society with a chance at achieving better for themselves, not becoming a repeat offender, and working with the tools given to them by the system, for the system. At a personal level it will convince them not to do "bad", at a societal level it provides the workforce with an educated, right-minded, productive member of society. You may think these people are just being criminals for shits and giggles and many are. But it's not like they just woke up one day and did it, it's because there's a social and economic structure and a culture which emphasizes these pathways and that pushes people to do this as part of life. A teacher sitting up there saying what's right and wrong doesn't mean shit if at every turn you're exposed to crime or poverty or both and it's part of your world at a normal level. No one has time to think about things deeply and wonder by themselves, at a personal level, just what is right and wrong and okay and not okay, when they're worried about having food, money, or any stimulus necessary for a healthy life. Someone blabbering on about it is fine and dandy if you're well-off enough that you can actually consider that as an option, but if your only distinction of right and wrong is someone preaching it to you and then your closest friends pushing you to come steal something then guess which one the person who has nothing is going to choose? The abstract concept that stealing is wrong or the very real stimulus and connection of doing this cultural expectation? If your personal connections are saying one thing, and your society is fine with it, no problems. But if those conflict, then you have a culture of crime. This is most prevalent in the lower classes because, guess what, they have the least ability to have free thought and enjoy life, and the most conflict between their lifestyles and the expectations and rule of society at large. People are a combination of their experiences. You want to fix welfare abuses and crime? Fix your fucking society then. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;43854634]Nah. There are some people so badly fucked in the head that they will never rehabilitate. You can look at the world through rose-tinted glasses all you want but it doesn't change the fact that they do exist.[/QUOTE] Yea they're called psychopaths and sociopaths and they're statistically a tiny amount of the population and those who commit crimes. Even fucking Hitler could be rehabilitated. Mussolini was a communist before he was a fascist, and that's a radical swing in one's beliefs. If someone can change their entire worldview and self-perceived place in the world then I think the state can convince some rapist that rape is bad and turn him towards playing into the basic, fundamental, ever-present social relationships of empathy and mutual common good.
[QUOTE=TestECull;43854634]Nah. There are some people so badly fucked in the head that they will never rehabilitate. You can look at the world through rose-tinted glasses all you want but it doesn't change the fact that they do exist.[/QUOTE] Otherwise known as mentally ill. The mentally ill should be in more effective and secure mental institutions, not jails.
Seeing as this is for prisons I think it's safe to assume everyone in there is a felon. To get a felony is pretty tough if all you're doing is stealing to get by. There's a difference between taking food or basic clothing and stealing $1000+ worth of stuff. When it comes to felons I've got no problem with them paying. Like I said, to commit a felony there's a lot more going on then being in a tough situation. I will say I'm a bit biased towards this, but that's because I deal with what lands people there everyday. The folks stealing food or cloths I more or less sympathize with, because a lot of the ones I arrested were doing so out of necessity. It's the guys who walk in trying to take the expensive shit purely to make a quick buck at the pawn shop that I have no sympathy for. In my mind, they damn better be paying for their food and such.
[QUOTE=Tmaxx;43850511]emotion has no place in the law, or determining people's fates. I don't care if a person raped 34895734 people and killed 12 billion more, he deserves a fair trial and possible second chance.[/QUOTE] #freehitler2014 #givehitleraseconchance
Are most inmates even in a financial disposition to pay for stuff?
ITT all people in prison got caught trying to steal food in order to survive.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43856366]ITT all people in prison got caught trying to steal food in order to survive.[/QUOTE] no you dolt stop simplifying it down so you can laugh at it and take a serious thought for a second. [editline]10th February 2014[/editline] you might as well be trolling if your "debate" is to stick your fingers in your ears
[QUOTE=DiscoBiscut;43850328]Because everyone deserves a second chance.[/QUOTE] So what about repeat offenders?
Honestly you dont just go to prison for straling a banana or watermelon. You have to fuck up real fucking bad if you want to end up in prison. It's not just trying to survive anymore.
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43856389]Honestly you dont just go to prison for straling a banana or watermelon. You have to fuck up real fucking bad if you want to end up in prison. It's not just trying to survive anymore.[/QUOTE] You're just not getting the core fucking principle. Feeding yourself, clothing yourself, providing a roof over your head, this is all expensive and a lot of criminals here don't have the ability to get jobs that allow them to do that. Crime allows them to do that. You HAVE to be trolling to be this dense.
Yes you're completely right and you've shown me the light! We should just free everyone in prison and give them free shelter and food. And that will stop crime everywhere and forever. Great thinking. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - Swebonny))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Strontboer;43856444]Yes you're completely right and you've shown me the light! We should just free everyone in prison and give them free shelter and food. And that will stop crime everywhere and forever. Great thinking.[/QUOTE] Said no one in this thead ever.
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