[QUOTE=Singo;48952530]Comparing American working conditions in the 1930's to those of Saudi working condtions in the 2000's.[/QUOTE]
So?
I'm just saying that the times were we did what we criticize are not that far gone.
Slaves may have built the early United States, but claiming the use and death of actual slave labor in present day countries is equatable to that is just not true. One was a little over a hundred years ago, one is today. Besides, a majority of the things built by slaves in the US have been built over by paid workers with rights/labor unions. The American south didn't flourish until after the wide-spread use of air conditioning. The size of the cities built today by construction workers is not comparable to the size of the cities built by slaves. Even underpaid, poor, migrant workers doing construction in the US under-the-table have it better than the workers trucked into Dubai.
Unless you're going the "we're all slaves to the evil corporations, man" route, then I'm not even going to respond.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48952557]So?
I'm just saying that the times were we did what we criticize are not that far gone.[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked Germany didn't have the best track record either.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48952557]So?
I'm just saying that the times were we did what we criticize are not that far gone.[/QUOTE]
Just because our past is riddled with slavery doesn't mean we can't criticize slavery today. Nor should we condone it because of that.
"Bu-but America did that too over 100 years ago!" Is stupid.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48952557]So?
I'm just saying that the times were we did what we criticize are not that far gone.[/QUOTE]
You know there is a difference between early-1900s workers building brand new designs never thought of before and in a unregulated industry, compared to a country in 2015 that works people worse then those conditions even though it has the capabilities to prevent such situations.
No it is not just "not that far gone."
Wouldn't it be great if the administration of the school that got him arrested had the insight that all this would happen to him, and did it on purpose to help him pay for his education?
[QUOTE=pod;48952794]Wouldn't it be great if the administration of the school that got him arrested had the insight that all this would happen to him, and did it on purpose to help him pay for his education?[/QUOTE]
Right like how the KKK oppressed black people to make Obama president?
Qatar sucks dick anywhere you go. I feel as though they're punishing the guy :1
Didn't he actually not "make" the clock at all, just removed the digital clock pieces from an actual one put them in a box and say "I made this"?
If doing that can get me scholarships, I'm about to rip open this here laptop I'm typing on and apply to MIT.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48953905]Didn't he actually not "make" the clock at all, just removed the digital clock pieces from an actual one put them in a box and say "I made this"?
If doing that can get me scholarships, I'm about to rip open this here laptop I'm typing on and apply to MIT.[/QUOTE]
Yea from what I heard he just popped open a clock and dumped it's guts into a briefcase.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48952125]Not because of the clock. Because of systematic racism towards middle-easterners that we haven't done anything to prevent, but everything to cause. The media saturation after 9/11 really kind of screwed anyone from those regions living here.
I remember a time when middle easterners were considered normal citizens. One of my friends growing up was from Iraq. 2001 was a really bad year for their family, and it only got worse over the next few years. Eventually they moved back, couldn't stand the social isolation and prejudice.
I think that's why this incident is really important. It's put that racism in the spotlight. It's an impetus for change. What the kid himself did is insignificant compared to what the situation means overall. It means we're finally recognizing that there is a problem here, and we're talking about that. That's important.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no it hasn't. I hate how some people managed to turn this into a matter of race when it's perfectly apparent that this has happened to different students who build bomb-like objects and they were ruined. Why does this guy get a free pass?
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;48953905]Didn't he actually not "make" the clock at all, just removed the digital clock pieces from an actual one put them in a box and say "I made this"?
If doing that can get me scholarships, I'm about to rip open this here laptop I'm typing on and apply to MIT.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much.
He doesn't deserve the publicity nor the rewards.
[QUOTE=Killuah;48952509]I'm not your buddy, "buddy"
and the working conditions were horrible[/QUOTE]
at least they weren't wage slaves, and had their passports confiscated, and shoved into inhuman lodging conditions, sure the sites were unsafe, but they're a hell of a lot better back then in new york than quatar's slave workers are today
I wouldn't be jealous of him going to Qatar.
when i was 13 i made lag switches for CoD out of foot pedals and cat5 cable
where's my fuckin scholarship
[QUOTE=OvB;48952603]Just because our past is riddled with slavery doesn't mean we can't criticize slavery today. Nor should we condone it because of that.
"Bu-but America did that too over 100 years ago!" Is stupid.[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying that though? Just reminding.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tudd;48952736]You know there is a difference between early-1900s workers building brand new designs never thought of before and in a unregulated industry, compared to a country in 2015 that works people worse then those conditions even though it has the capabilities to prevent such situations.
No it is not just "not that far gone."[/QUOTE]
What do you think the biggest buildings and stadiums in the world are if not new designs never thought of before?
What do you think the building sector in Quatar is ? It's very much an unregulated industry?
I'm not defending anything or anyone, especially not Quatar.
It just seems to me that people like to get all riled up and on the high horse about stuff like that while forgetting that the riches they live in are based and sustained by the very same conditions.
It used to be slavery or wage slavery back then, nowadays we just outsourced that shit.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sableye;48954274]at least they weren't wage slaves, and had their passports confiscated, and shoved into inhuman lodging conditions, sure the sites were unsafe, but they're a hell of a lot better back then in new york than quatar's slave workers are today[/QUOTE]
Dude the building was built during the great depression. How do you think they saved 20 Million bucks(modern equivalent: 285,714,285.71 $) during its construction?
This kid is so damn lucky the US' news culture is so sensationalist. Or I guess I should say western news culture, I think we're all guilty of this.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5e/Ahmed_Mohamed_Clock_by_Irving_PD.jpg[/IMG]
Look at this dumb clock. Firstly, he didn't build the actual [I]clock[/I], he moved the innards of one into another container. Rather poorly. And the container is a metal briefcase, it looks like a stereotypical bomb. Not only should he not have been punished as severely as he was (I mean, at worst it's a dumb prop he never should have brought to school), he also shouldn't have been as praised as he was. This kids entire life has been changed by how people [B]completely[/B] over react without even knowing the facts, from the moment he brought that clock to school. I'm so curious, what is he thinking right now? If I was in his position at his age, I couldn't even comprehend what was happening - one day I'm making a janky fake bomb, the next I'm talking to the president and getting my scholarship funded by fucking Qatar. :v:
[QUOTE=Killuah;48954753]I'm not defending anything or anyone, especially not Quatar.
It just seems to me that people like to get all riled up and on the high horse about stuff like that while forgetting that the riches they live in are based and sustained by the very same conditions.[/QUOTE]
Is that relevant?
I live in a country not made by slaves or based on slave labour, in fact during the turkish raids into europe people from this country were dragged off to be slaves. And there is definitely nothing rich about it today. Does this mean I have more of a right to criticise Qatar?
I think historical background doesn't really matter that much when the critique given is based strictly on Qatar as it is today. What americans did hundreds of years ago doesn't make Qatar's transgresions any smaller. What happens anywhere else in the world [I]today[/I] doesn't make the shit some people in Qatar go through any less shitty.
But yes, you did say yourself you're not defending Qatar, though I have to ask what exactly are you criticizing then? Because I don't think this high horse you claim people are riding on exists.
If we're going to ride this moral high horse, we're going to ride it into the sunset.
[URL="http://www.wired.com/2015/04/inside-chinese-factories/"]Here's how your phones are made. [/URL] I'd say this is at the same level, if not worse, than what Qatar's doing with their construction industry.
We're the ones funding this one. Not some rich Sheikhs. This is all on us, and we don't care. And yet, somehow, we find it in ourselves to complain about construction practices in a country most of us will never visit, or contribute to in any way.
At least I've been part of an organization that helps provide sustainable non-factory jobs for people in Southeast Asia. What are you all doing to help the construction workers in Qatar, aside from debating the morality of the situation on the Internet?
The world's built on inhospitable conditions and sketchy business practices. Every major company you can think of has committed unspeakable atrocities in foreign countries, but I'm sure everyone here drinks Coca-Cola or buys Nestle products, and doesn't think about the nastiness that they're involved in.
I'm not apologizing for Qatar or the UAE. Their construction practices are gross and disturbing. But we have to realize that everything else is too, and we're not throwing a fit about anything else. What makes labor in the middle-east different, aside from a few VICE documentaries and a bystander position?
Now... If you all want to contribute to an organization that helps migrant workers in the middle east, then complain all you want. But just complaining with no action does nothing other than make you feel better about yourself.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48952094]My mother told me about this this morning... Said it was because the kid hates America and wants to go become a terrorist.
My mother is incredibly conservative.
.[/QUOTE]
your mom needs to lay off whatever idiot things she's taking, because this is the stupidest and most racist stereotype I've ever heard
The point is, this thread about a boy being sent to Qatar, so it's reasonable to bring up Qatar's inhuman practices. Criticizing one country isn't condoning the others. It's criticizing a thing relevant to the topic at hand. If the kid was being sent to Mumbai, or Southeast Asia, or Rio de Janeiro, or wherever else. I'm not saying Qatar is the worst place on earth, just that it's a [I]bad[/I] place on earth. One of many.
Saying "Well X place is just as bad", or "well X place did this too so..." doesn't bring much to the discussion, since this happens to be about Qatar. I agree that a lot of the world is shit, and we as westerners apathetically benefit from much of it. It's not a moral high horse, it's just the United States has nothing to do with the discussion.
[editline]21st October 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mio Akiyama;48955027]your mom needs to lay off whatever idiot things she's taking, because this is the stupidest and most racist stereotype I've ever heard[/QUOTE]
Imagine having such a strong opinion about a [I]child[/I] you didn't know existed until the media made him a celebrity.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48954924]If we're going to ride this moral high horse, we're going to ride it into the sunset.
[URL="http://www.wired.com/2015/04/inside-chinese-factories/"]Here's how your phones are made. [/URL] I'd say this is at the same level, if not worse, than what Qatar's doing with their construction industry.
We're the ones funding this one. Not some rich Sheikhs. This is all on us, and we don't care. And yet, somehow, we find it in ourselves to complain about construction practices in a country most of us will never visit, or contribute to in any way.
At least I've been part of an organization that helps provide sustainable non-factory jobs for people in Southeast Asia. What are you all doing to help the construction workers in Qatar, aside from debating the morality of the situation on the Internet?
The world's built on inhospitable conditions and sketchy business practices. Every major company you can think of has committed unspeakable atrocities in foreign countries, but I'm sure everyone here drinks Coca-Cola or buys Nestle products, and doesn't think about the nastiness that they're involved in.
I'm not apologizing for Qatar or the UAE. Their construction practices are gross and disturbing. But we have to realize that everything else is too, and we're not throwing a fit about anything else. What makes labor in the middle-east different, aside from a few VICE documentaries and a bystander position?
Now... If you all want to contribute to an organization that helps migrant workers in the middle east, then complain all you want. But just complaining with no action does nothing other than make you feel better about yourself.[/QUOTE]
You might be surprised to learn that criticism of Qatar in this thread has less to do with how people want to fix/criticise Qatar itself and more to do with this 14 year old and how getting a scholarship from Qatar might not be all that glamorous because, well, they do pretty shitty things. You can ask why all these other countries are being ignored, but you have to understand they are ignored only in this discussion, because this kid isn't going to [I]China[/I], he's going to [I]Qatar[/I].
Though you are probably [I]not[/I] wondering why this kid matters more than all the suffering of cheap labor across the world, because it's pretty obvious that such an incredibly ridiciulous series of events that basically parodies itself is much more pleasant to discuss than how the electronics industry is powered by the blood of the poor. There should be no doubt in you that this news article is going to be more popular than anything more globally important, because it was just the dumbest disney shit from the very start and you know we fucking love that shit.
[QUOTE=OvB;48952196]Qatar has this really interesting education district.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/AAO9gHy.jpg[/img_thumb]
A bunch of American universities there, like he said.[/QUOTE]
My GF's university (VCU) has a campus there.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;48955465]My GF's university (VCU) has a campus there.[/QUOTE]
My Uni has a campus there (Texas A&M). It's mainly a Petroleum engineering school from what I hear, which makes sense.
[QUOTE=woolio1;48952094]My mother told me about this this morning... Said it was because the kid hates America and wants to go become a terrorist.
[/QUOTE]
Ok, I heard the exact same thing, who the hell's been spreading that info?
[QUOTE=CreeplyTuna;48955491]Ok, I heard the exact same thing, who the hell's been spreading that info?[/QUOTE]
sorry it was me #ObamaWarOnReligion
[QUOTE=wewt!;48954848]
Is that relevant?
I live in a country not made by slaves or based on slave labour, in fact during the turkish raids into europe people from this country were dragged off to be slaves. And there is definitely nothing rich about it today. Does this mean I have more of a right to criticise Qatar?
I think historical background doesn't really matter that much when the critique given is based strictly on Qatar as it is today. What americans did hundreds of years ago doesn't make Qatar's transgresions any smaller. What happens anywhere else in the world [I]today[/I] doesn't make the shit some people in Qatar go through any less shitty.
But yes, you did say yourself you're not defending Qatar, though I have to ask what exactly are you criticizing then? Because I don't think this high horse you claim people are riding on exists.[/QUOTE]
No. I don't want to deny or discuss away anyone any rights to criticize anyone, that's not my point.
And additionally I think it's not very smart to disconnect historical circumstances from todays. People are still working in slave-like conditions, we just outsourced that stuff.
My main point is just reminding people because usually along with the critique comes the weird idea of "everything is better here at our place" which is definitely not the case as it's most often just a case of putting it where noone sees it.
Out of the frying pan and into the fire, huh?
And here I'm eating dirt and bending over my back trying to secure a job in Qatar.
[QUOTE=SelfishDragon;48952124]I think the kid got way too much, most he deserved in my opinion was media support and an apology from the school
Instead he's heralded as a young inventor and genius, gets to meet the President, numerous television appearences, and now this.
I think it's a bit much when your accomplishment is just being a victim[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't even call it an accomplishment, more of a fucking hand-out. There are many talented people who don't get this treatment. The fact that the he got all this treatment for gutting a clock and putting it into a different housing/case is asinine.
America did nothing wrong
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