• Supreme Court to weigh police use of TASERs
    163 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Monkey Arms;35868645]Protect and serve doesn't mean "all officers need to disregard their own safety and jump in front of bullets to protect people". Contrary to what you seem to think that's not part of the job description or their training.[/QUOTE] If it's between the safety of the officer and the safety of an innocent bystander, bystander comes first. That's what it means when you wear a badge.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868657]But you can justify tazing a pregnant woman with a gun, despite the fact that it's the worst idea ever. (???)[/QUOTE] No, you can justify a shooting pregnant woman who is pointing a gun at you, willing to kill you. Does it look bad on paper, and in the media? Of course. Its the sad reality of it
[QUOTE=areolop;35868693]No, you can justify a shooting pregnant woman who is pointing a gun at you, willing to kill you. Does it look bad on paper, and in the media? Of course. Its the sad reality of it[/QUOTE] And that is why you're a bad cop. The sad reality is that you give more of a shit about yourself than an innocent. I hope to a God I don't even believe in that you don't work anywhere that isn't behind a desk. Because at the end of the day, when it's down to you and someone else, you're going to choose you.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868673]If it's between the safety of the officer and the safety of an innocent bystander, bystander comes first. That's what it means when you wear a badge.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make it the duty of police to act like personal body guards and jump in front of bullets. It would be heroic if they did, but it's not a requirement or a duty. You will not find a document anywhere detailing it as a duty.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868709]And that is why you're a bad cop. The sad reality is that you give more of a shit about yourself than an innocent. I hope to a God I don't even believe in that you don't work anywhere that isn't behind a desk. Because at the end of the day, when it's down to you and someone else, you're going to choose you.[/QUOTE] [B]SHE ISNT INNOCENT. [/B]
[QUOTE=Monkey Arms;35868718]That doesn't make it the duty of police to act like personal body guards and jump in front of bullets. It would be heroic if they did, but it's not a requirement or a duty. You will not find a document anywhere detailing it as a duty.[/QUOTE] It's what separates good cops from bad cops. The cops that worry about themselves are in it for a career. The cops that worry about others are the ones that want to do right. They're the ones you can trust. Not the ones who are more concerned about going home than doing a civil service. [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=areolop;35868724][B]SHE ISNT INNOCENT. [/B][/QUOTE] The kid is. Kid didn't do shit. Seven months pregnant, that kid is survivable and ready to be popped out in most cases. Killing the mother is infanticide
Go back to your desk. Lawyer Work is not the same as Street work. No officer wants to take a bullet. Ever. It will happen, but its not in any cops mindset that they will have to take a bullet for someone else. Thats not their explicit job. Their job is to maintain the peace.
[QUOTE=areolop;35868773]Go back to your desk. Lawyer Work is not the same as Street work.[/QUOTE] You're a fucking trainee. Don't go all street on me. Drop the big-talk. You could get washed out for having a public conversation like this. I've seen cops get washed out for much less.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868741]It's what separates good cops from bad cops. The cops that worry about themselves are in it for a career. The cops that worry about others are the ones that want to do right. They're the ones you can trust. Not the ones who are more concerned about going home than doing a civil service. [/QUOTE] We aren't talking about good cops vs bad cops, we're talking about the baseline duties of a police officer Being a civilian meat-shield isn't one of them.
So to open another can of worms: Is killing the unborn murder, because if so that means it's a person, which would mean that abortion is also murder.
[QUOTE=Monkey Arms;35868793]We aren't talking about good cops vs bad cops, we're talking about the baseline duties of a police officer Being a civilian meat-shield isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] Not civilian meat-shield. A cop that values other lives above his own. That is an inherent value of a good law enforcer. It doesn't mean they're reckless. It means if push comes to shove, they'll take a hit if it means doing the right thing. Whether that's protecting a bystander or trying to talk-down an armed pregnant woman for the sake of the child alone.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868783]You're a fucking trainee. Don't go all street on me. Drop the big-talk. You could get washed out for having a public conversation like this. I've seen cops get washed out for much less.[/QUOTE] At this point, im not even concerned about being washed. You are trying to argue a point that killing the mother is the same as killing the innocent fetus. Its not. It sucks that an action would have to come down to that but, i'll have you know, officers and EMT's will do everything in their power to save the kid.
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;35868803]So to open another can of worms: Is killing the unborn murder, because if so that means it's a person, which would mean that abortion is also murder.[/QUOTE] Seven months is beyond abortion-period in almost all states. It's third-trimester. The baby is livable and ready to go, even if premature. Most abortions only happen during first trimester, before the baby is a baby. [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=areolop;35868826]At this point, im not even concerned about being washed. You are trying to argue a point that killing the mother is the same as killing the innocent fetus. Its not. It sucks that an action would have to come down to that but, i'll have you know, officers and EMT's will do everything in their power to save the kid.[/QUOTE] And you wouldn't. You'd shoot. "Everything in their power" means a hell of a lot more than mopping up the blood and hoping for the best. That's what you don't seem to be getting. Cops volunteer for a duty, not for a career. It's this career bullshit that creates untrustworthy cops. The ones that are there out of a sense of duty, one they don't throw away when their life is on the line, those are the real cops. Those are the ones that deserve respect.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868829] And you wouldn't.[/QUOTE] How could you even make that assumption.
[QUOTE=wallyroberto_2;35868803]So to open another can of worms: Is killing the unborn murder, because if so that means it's a person, which would mean that abortion is also murder.[/QUOTE] No. We're not getting into this here. It's wrong if the fetus had the potential to become a person, which means it's not wrong if the carrier decides to abort within the proper time frame and wrong if someone other than the carrier kills it regardless. This is reflected in law in every state in this country. End of sub-topic.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868829] And you wouldn't. You'd shoot. "Everything in their power" means a hell of a lot more than mopping up the blood and hoping for the best.[/QUOTE] I dont think your processing this. After the mother has been shot, its the officers job [I]then[/I] to treat any injuries that they have done. This includes saving the mother's and child's life.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868812]Not civilian meat-shield. A cop that values other lives above his own. That is an inherent value of a good law enforcer. It doesn't mean they're reckless. It means if push comes to shove, they'll take a hit if it means doing the right thing. [/QUOTE] I think your expectations of police officers need to go back to the disney film they apparently came from. Brush up on what the [I]actual [/I]duties of a police officer are while you're at it.
[QUOTE=areolop;35868847]How could you even make that assumption.[/QUOTE] Because you don't have to shoot. It is within your power to risk your own life for the sake of another. That you would not do so makes me wonder why you would volunteer for the job. [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Monkey Arms;35868885]I think your expectations of police officers need to go back to the disney film they apparently came from. Brush up on what the [I]actual [/I]duties of a police officer are while you're at it.[/QUOTE] Sorry for being idealistic. I'll just go back to accepting police shootings, excessive force and brutality. I prefer idealism. So should the people with the guns and the badges. We have no need for cynical cops. [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=areolop;35868868]I dont think your processing this. After the mother has been shot, its the officers job [I]then[/I] to treat any injuries that they have done. This includes saving the mother's and child's life.[/QUOTE] Or you do everything you can that doesn't involve shooting them. Plenty of police know how to defuse situations without gunfire. As mentioned previously in this thread, the British police have become particularly adept at it, using deadly force at an embarrassingly low rate compared to the US.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868886]Because you don't have to shoot. It is within your power to risk your own life for the sake of another. That you would not do so makes me wonder why you would volunteer for the job. [/quote] Dude, its self-defense. If someone is shooting at you, are you just going to stand there? Nope. You are going to fight for your life over theirs. This is not like Saints: The Third where you can run up and kick them in the nuts. I volunteer for this job because I believe in making a difference in this world. I like helping people when they are at their worst. If you cannot understand that any-type of officer-involved shootings can ruin one's career, or even cause the officer to commit suicide then I'm sorry. You just dont understand. You may call me out on my rulings but when it happens in real life, I know that I will be protected by the law, justifying a taking of another life to save my own.
[QUOTE=areolop;35868933]Dude, its self-defense.[/QUOTE] Self-defense is for civilians. Police don't defend themselves first and foremost, they defend others. To Protect and fucking Serve. You are not the priority. Nobody is suggesting you jump in front of bullets, but when you're in a situation like that, you CAN NOT put yourself as the top priority. That's how innocent people die. That's how mistakes get made. That's how jumpy cops shoot people in the back, how pregnant women get tazed and how peaceful protesters get tear-gassed. You VOLUNTEERED. If you aren't willing to put your own welfare second to others, then you need to find a new profession. You volunteered yourself for a service not to yourself but to your constituents: the people. You enforce the law for the betterment of society. That means when push comes to shove, you risk yourself for others. If firefighters had your attitude, do you think they'd go running into burning, collapsing buildings? No. And they're not even paid half the shit you'll get paid.
[QUOTE=areolop;35868933]You just dont understand. [B]You may call me out on my rulings[/B] but when it happens in real life, I know that I will be protected by the law, justifying a taking of another life to save my own.[/QUOTE] What the fuck? Do you think you're Judge Dredd here or what? Irrelevant of your actual point the way you're trying to convey it is bizarre and worrying.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868988]Nobody is suggesting you jump in front of bullets [/QUOTE] ..? [QUOTE=Lankist;35868531]Yeah it's not like that's sort of what cops signed up for. Take the bullet so an innocent doesn't have to? [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;35869005]What the fuck? Do you think you're Judge Dredd here or what? Irrelevant of your actual point the way you're trying to convey it is bizarre and worrying.[/QUOTE] He is the law!
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;35869005]What the fuck? Do you think you're Judge Dredd here or what? Irrelevant of your actual point the way you're trying to convey it is bizarre and worrying.[/QUOTE] Like I said, dude could damn well get washed out of training if this makes its way to his superior. If he can't learn to stay quiet, he's not going to get a badge for very long. [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Monkey Arms;35869008]..?[/QUOTE] There is a difference between stopping trouble and looking for trouble.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35869013] There is a difference between stopping trouble and looking for trouble.[/QUOTE] I've never actually said otherwise I'm just confused as to you saying nobody expects cops to jump in front of bullets for civilians .. when our argument last page was on the subject of your expectation of cops to jump in front of bullets for civilians.
[QUOTE=Monkey Arms;35869038]I've never actually said otherwise I'm just confused as to you saying nobody expects cops to jump in front of bullets for civilians .. when our argument last page was on the subject of your expectation of to cops to jump in front of bullets for civilians.[/QUOTE] I said that in reference to the choice between shooting a pregnant woman and risking taking a bullet himself, he should be prepared to take the bullet. Motherfucker has a vest for a reason. It isn't so he can shoot everyone who looks at him funny.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35868988]Self-defense is for civilians. Police don't defend themselves first and foremost, they defend others. To Protect and fucking Serve. You are not the priority. Nobody is suggesting you jump in front of bullets, but when you're in a situation like that, you CAN NOT put yourself as the top priority. That's how innocent people die. That's how mistakes get made. That's how jumpy cops shoot people in the back, how pregnant women get tazed and how peaceful protesters get tear-gassed. You volunteered yourself for a service not to yourself but to your constituents: the people. You enforce the law for the betterment of society. That means when push comes to shove, you risk yourself for others.[/QUOTE] Officer do indeed put themselves in danger everyday, however, that is not the direct danger of an officer losing his life to protect and serve another. Traffic Stops, and Domestics are commonly referred to being the most dangerous things that an officer does because of the imminent danger of them losing their life. You stated earlier that the bystander's life is greater then yours, that is the case 99% of the time. However, when you life becomes endangered by someone who is physically attacking you, you're life is not #1. Not the bystanders. Because if you cannot win, he cannot win. In a perfect world, we dont have these situations but, we do. They teach us, within statute, to not become a statistic, a number, or a word on the wall. We are taught to survive. If our survival in those situations means that another can also survive, i'll tell you that officers will take the shot. Every time you put on that uniform, you are a target to everyone. Officer risk themselves over others because [U]that[/U] is their job. Them taking a bullet, is not. Officers dont like using their guns because that could mean the end of their career and thats why they use tasers. We're done here. Mod's please Lock and DDT this thing [editline]7th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Lankist;35869047]I said that in reference to the choice between shooting a pregnant woman and risking taking a bullet himself, he should be prepared to take the bullet. Motherfucker has a vest for a reason. It isn't so he can shoot everyone who looks at him funny.[/QUOTE] You dont even understand.
Shooting people is NOT a cop's job. That is NEVER a cop's job. That's why every OIS is followed by extreme scrutiny and internal investigation.
[QUOTE=Lankist;35869099]Shooting people is NOT a cop's job.[/QUOTE] No shit.
[highlight]OCRP Admins to consider removing tazers from Police Officers ingame.[/highlight] Welcome to Garry's Mod Roleplay News. Brought to you by: [B]garry[/B] Today we heard that the OCRP admins are considering removing the tazer. It is constantly abused by failrpers who consider them "ub3r pro police officers" of the server. The violations include tazing people randomly at the market, tazing people to get them unstuck, tazing other government officials and things related. This has been a News Flash with Garry's Mod Roleplay News [quote=The Serious Side of Me] Tazers can be useful if they are armed with knifes and such, but if they are unarmed and are not a threat in anyway do not need to be tazed. Any cop who does taze someone who is unarmed and not a threat should have their badge stripped and suffer a fine and some jailtime. [/quote]
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