[QUOTE=BrickInHead;42820247]that may just be because commonly the differences between countries, states, and nations aren't taught to the average citizen. a nation isn't a country, and it's a bit more ambiguous.
a state is simple - it's just a government that interacts with other governments. ie in the domestic US system, you would see the states as states. or, in the international system, the different governments around the world are states.
a country is the entire geographical territory that is controlled by one government entity. so in the case of the us, that's the continental us and hawaii / alaska. a country is generally easy to understand because it includes the civilian populace and the state. it's generally consistent, especially in federalist systems in which a local state government is forced to adhere to federal legislation, and there's a general integration of federal/national norms at the local level, at least in law. however, they're not mandated to be integrated into the culture in a lot of places - that is, the "nation".
a nation is super ambiguous. the easiest way to describe it is as a group of people who share the same ideological and culture, ehtnicity, history, etc. it's basically just a group that's stuck together and live in a given territory. a lot of scholars have made the argument that nations hardly exist any longer because of the fact that the world is becoming increasingly heterogenous, and that's why this guys work is really interesting. Scholars understand that culture plays a role, but for reasons of simplifying data collection they paint things as black and white (which even this guy is guilty of to a certain degree); to actually take the step and make the claim that these cultural differences are rooted from the fact that nations exist in the US is pretty radical
idk if these nations exist and i won't know exactly how i feel about it until I read the guy's full argument instead of just his results.
edit: im interested, which states have you lived in and did you see any sort of differences between them, even those that weren't laid out in this framework?[/QUOTE]
I've lived in florida, rhode island, california, new hampshire, and now north dakota, I've also spent time in other places.
I see what you mean now, your right. I work with people from all over the states and the world, I just think people are the same no matter where you are.
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;42820407]In michigan we have a city called 'Holland' just south of me, western Michigan has a lot of dutch history. We even have a wooden shoe factory 'little dutch village' tourist trap.
[URL]http://www.swierenga.com/CenturyClubLecc_lec.html[/URL]
That map isn't exactly accurate.[/QUOTE]
again haven't read it but
the new netherlands is different than just having a lot of dutch immigrants in one place, it's a historical evolution from the actual province owned by the dutch in the 1600s that influenced the cultural makeup of the location over the centuries. the fact that it served as a major port probably hugely influenced it and differentiated it from just being a bunch of dutchmen too
[QUOTE=archangel125;42820102]The fuck are parts of Canada included for? Anyone who's traveled here knows that it feels like you're entering a different dimension, because of the big differences in culture. The same goes for Mexico - They don't really belong on that map.[/QUOTE]
Born Canadian living in the states. They're not [I]that[/I] different. Bout the only difference is the flags, the cold, and there's a lot more poutine. But maybe that's because I went from Alberta to Texas which are almost twins.
[QUOTE=jaredop;42820613]I've lived in florida, rhode island, california, new hampshire, and now north dakota, I've also spent time in other places.
I see what you mean now, your right. I work with people from all over the states and the world, I just think people are the same no matter where you are.[/QUOTE]
where in florida? like i mentioned there's been a gradual shift going on in florida in the center/southern region of the state because of the migration of the baby boomers, which is going to effectively be identical to rhode island and new hampshire (and under this dudes framework california which shares the yankee stuff). i can't say anything for dakota because i don't know too much about it
ive lived in fl off and on for a couple of years now and man if you're in the north of the state it's ridiculously redneck, but the more south you go the more you get the cuban / yankee influences which is nice
i think that globally people are pretty similar in at least their interests, but notions of responsibility (of the state and of the individual) and a lot of other social phenomena vary pretty intensely
Excluding the urban centers like Milwaukee and Madison I don't see why the most of Wisconsin (or Minnesota) is considered part of the Yankeedom. If anything we're more part of 'The Midlands' group. I find it odd that the northern counties are considered part of it too when most of those people are off-the-grid and keep to themselves.
[QUOTE=OvB;42820673]Born Canadian living in the states. They're not [I]that[/I] different. Bout the only difference is the flags, the cold, and there's a lot more poutine. But maybe that's because I went from Alberta to Texas which are almost twins.[/QUOTE]
Which is probably it. Not to put too fine a point on it, but Alberta isn't known for its cosmopolitan attitudes.
I wouldn't stick Northern Alabama in Greater Appalachia, maybe the eastern most side like Madison,Jackson,Marshal,DeKalb,Etowah,and Cherokee counties there isn't really mountains aside from the ones in out near Huntsville
not to seem like an ass but is there any nation out there that doesn't appreciate "hard work" or "work ethic"? i mean like wherever you go people claim they are a hard working, honest people. it seems weird that you would identify that as a trait unique to a nation.
something tells me besides the toledo war, ohio and michigan would probably be part of the same country
[editline]10th November 2013[/editline]
at least northern Ohio, its interesting that they made the distinction between north and southern Ohio but northern Ohio would probably be with Michigan or southern Michigan
Eh. The thing about Florida is that it's really three seperate cultural entities.
The northern part is an extension of Alabama, but once it becomes a peninsula it starts to mix off. Central florida is very much half deep south-half tidewater.
In the urban centers, it's very much tidewater, but in the rural lands inbetween them, it's extremely hickish.
anything west of the great lakes is definitely not "yankeedom"
i could nitpick a lot of it and point out considering a i grew up in the technical south (south florida) and now live in chicago and also lived in pennsylvania, but as a whole its not too far off
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;42820714]where in florida? like i mentioned there's been a gradual shift going on in florida in the center/southern region of the state because of the migration of the baby boomers, which is going to effectively be identical to rhode island and new hampshire (and under this dudes framework california which shares the yankee stuff). i can't say anything for dakota because i don't know too much about it
ive lived in fl off and on for a couple of years now and man if you're in the north of the state it's ridiculously redneck, but the more south you go the more you get the cuban / yankee influences which is nice
i think that globally people are pretty similar in at least their interests, but notions of responsibility (of the state and of the individual) and a lot of other social phenomena vary pretty intensely[/QUOTE]
Pensacola, but I was a kid at the time and I've only been back twice
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42820837]not to seem like an ass but is there any nation out there that doesn't appreciate "hard work" or "work ethic"? i mean like wherever you go people claim they are a hard working, honest people. it seems weird that you would identify that as a trait unique to a nation.[/QUOTE]
esp given that it's effectively useless to differentiate between the far west and el norte with those, because they're basically the same thing minus the influence of the spanish empire and the speaking of spanish. im curious if the indigenous population plays into it whatsoever as well
Central Florida, I grew up there and there isn't so much of the super Cuba as is in Miami. The general Miami area has a lot of that, but they generally stay away from most areas that aren't miami. The coasts are primarily white, and the major urban centers such as the Greater Tampa area (Tampa, St petersberg, Lutz) is a mixing pot. The highschool I went to is kind of a hilarious example. I lived on the outskirts of Tampa city in a developing suburban area that was a highway town turned into a major commercial hub. When I went into highschool, they bussed in people from different parts of the county. You'd have people taking hour to two hour long bus rides from fucking downtown to go to a school in the northeast stretches of the county that were sitting on the county line.
It'd be suburban kids mixed in with rural red necks, mixed in with inner city kids, along with a lot of minorities being bussed in.
Central florida is more than anything, melting pots in commercial areas with large stretches of swampland and rural areas inbetween.
Basically this.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Tampabaymetro.png[/img]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42820837]not to seem like an ass but is there any nation out there that doesn't appreciate "hard work" or "work ethic"? i mean like wherever you go people claim they are a hard working, honest people. it seems weird that you would identify that as a trait unique to a nation.[/quote]
all the descriptions seem intentionally abstract except for the background part and could for the most part easily apply any of them to any other region, this entire thing's p stupid
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;42820935]Central Florida, I grew up there and there isn't so much of the super Cuba as is in Miami. The general Miami area has a lot of that, but they generally stay away from most areas that aren't miami. The coasts are primarily white, and the major urban centers such as the Greater Tampa area (Tampa, St petersberg, Lutz) is a mixing pot. The highschool I went to is kind of a hilarious example. I lived on the outskirts of Tampa city in a developing suburban area that was a highway town turned into a major commercial hub. When I went into highschool, they bussed in people from different parts of the county. You'd have people taking hour to two hour long bus rides from fucking downtown to go to a school in the northeast stretches of the county that were sitting on the county line.
It'd be suburban kids mixed in with rural red necks, mixed in with inner city kids, along with a lot of minorities being bussed in.
Central florida is more than anything, melting pots in commercial areas with large stretches of swampland and rural areas inbetween.
Basically this.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Tampabaymetro.png[/img][/QUOTE]
which town? i was/am apollo beach area
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;42820964]which town? i was/am apollo beach area[/QUOTE]
New Tampa.
It's not city of Tampa, were not affected by City of Tampa crap, but for some odd reason it's classified as city of Tampa.
It's kind of ridiculous how the borders are. See that. Basically a separate entity except for a literal bridge having its borders stretch out.
[img]http://puu.sh/5esYn[/img]
left coast represent
[QUOTE=Shadaez;42820940]all the descriptions seem intentionally abstract except for the background part and could for the most part easily apply any of them to any other region, this entire thing's p stupid[/QUOTE]
trying to say the traits that any nationality accepts or is known for is stupid and misses the point. nationality is a shared identity, not a group of traits that people have. i sorta identify as a "cascadian" in the sense that i feel more immediately acquainted with someone from portland, seattle, vancouver, etc., than i would feel with someone from nyc or houston, since we can talk about our similar experiences in cities we have both lived in and been to. that doesn't mean i share any traits with them, just a general geographic location and a bit of culture.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42821017]trying to say the traits that any nationality accepts or is known for is stupid and misses the point. nationality is a shared identity, not a group of traits that people have. i sorta identify as a "cascadian" in the sense that i feel more immediately acquainted with someone from portland, seattle, vancouver, etc., than i would feel with someone from nyc or houston, since we can talk about our similar experiences in cities we have both lived in and been to. that doesn't mean i share any traits with them, just a general geographic location and a bit of culture.[/QUOTE]
not what a nationality is, a nationality is much more than just the geographic location. believe it or not, you can generally separate people on a basis of traits, that's pretty much entirely what statistical analysis of populations does
[editline]10th November 2013[/editline]
also a bit of culture? aka the socialization process through which you were raised which 9 times out of 10 creates expressed social traits
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;42821060]not what a nationality is, a nationality is much more than just the geographic location. believe it or not, you can generally separate people on a basis of traits, that's pretty much entirely what statistical analysis of populations does
[editline]10th November 2013[/editline]
also a bit of culture? aka the socialization process through which you were raised which 9 times out of 10 creates expressed social traits[/QUOTE]
this is statistical analysis and don't illustrate universal traits present in a population. you can make general statements, but human beings all have unique experiences and genetics that create a unique set of traits and ideas. you can make no prediction about me based on my nation, except my geographic location, that won't be a statistical likelihood.
humans are individuals and part of a greater group simultaneously. i guess i am just highlighting that distinction.
also i said a bit of culture since people in washington are not that much culturally different than people in delaware, and we still aren't that far off from people in the uk. these smaller nations are not completely culturally unique when compared to people in the larger cultural groups. yea culture plays a huge part in our lives and if i implied it didn't then i was wrong.
i guess pennsylvania is diverse if you mean normal people and then rednecks
Resentful is right for the parts of the West. I live in Arizona, and every time I go to Colorado to visit family one of them mentions how "you guys are stealing our water". Its not like we made the Colorado River flow downstream or anything, we just use what washes down to us.
So from the looks of it this guy took the earliest years of each region and drew VERY general parallels to their modern counterpart.
Everywhere is gonna have a little bit of their history left in them, that's just a fact. What needs to be acknowledged here is that for every similarity there is, there's probably a few hundred more differences.
The culture of New England and the Great Lakes Midwest is completely different.
This map offends my Michigan-centric nationalism.
No joke.
(Hey, North Ohio, N. Indiana, N. Illinois, Wisconsin, and Eastern Minnesota, wanna secede together?)
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];42822045']The culture of New England and the Great Lakes Midwest is completely different.
This map offends my Michigan-centric nationalism.
No joke.
(Hey, North Ohio, N. Indiana, N. Illinois, Wisconsin, and Eastern Minnesota, wanna secede together?)[/QUOTE]
Great Lakes superstate
[QUOTE=l337k1ll4;42820192]America refers to North and South America combined. It's often used, however incorrectly, as another term for the United States.[/QUOTE]
I've never heard someone use the term 'America' to reference both continents - 'the Americas' is the correct name for both continents. Being that the USA is the only country with 'America' in it's name and that there is no continent solely called 'America', I don't think there's anything wrong with using the term America for the USA.
This whole thing really reads like your daily horoscopes or some shit like that, it doesn't seem to have much in the way of a rational basis or meaningful explanation at all.
Just a lot of vague descriptors being thrown around is all I got out of reading this.
Heh. I live right on that thin strip between Yankeedom and Appalachia, right in the midlands.
Why the fuck do assholes have to keep putting Texas with those pieces of shit across the Sabine?
Meanwhile nobody in South Louisiana gives a fuck nor wants to be apart of Quebec or France.
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