• Flaws found in Ukraine's probe of Maidan massacre (Reuters special report)
    42 replies, posted
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-killings-probe-special-report-idUSKCN0HZ0UH20141010[/url] [quote]For millions of Ukrainians, it was a crime against humanity. In February, more than 100 protesters were gunned down in the Maidan uprising that toppled the president, Viktor Yanukovich. The victims are now known as "the Heavenly Hundred." In April, prosecutors arrested three suspects, members of an elite unit within the "Berkut" riot police. Senior among them was Dmytro Sadovnyk, 38, a decorated commander, who was accused of ordering his men to fire on the crowds on the morning of Feb. 20. The three stand accused of massacring 39 unarmed protesters. On Sept. 19, the case took a turn when a judge released Sadovnyk into house arrest – and, two weeks later, he went missing. Maidan activists were outraged, convinced that a corrupt system had let a killer escape. The judge was placed under investigation. The prosecutor said in a statement: "D. Sadovnyk, suspected of committing an extremely grievous crime, aiming to avoid punishment, disappeared from his place of permanent residence." But in a country where justice often isn't blind, there's another possibility: Sadovnyk was being framed, and saw flight as his best option. In court last month, he called the case against him "a political lynching." In the days before he vanished, his wife and his lawyer say, Sadovnyk and his family received death threats. A Reuters examination of Ukraine's probes into the Maidan shootings - based on interviews with prosecutors, defence attorneys, protesters, police officers and legal experts – has uncovered serious flaws in the case against Sadovnyk and the other two Berkut officers. Among the evidence presented against Sadovnyk was a photograph. Prosecutors say it shows him near Kiev's Independence Square on Feb. 20, wearing a mask and holding a rifle with two hands, his fingers clearly visible. The problem: Sadovnyk doesn't have two hands. His right hand, his wife told Reuters, was blown off by a grenade in a training accident six years ago. As prosecutors introduced the image at a hearing in April, said Yuliya Sadovnyk, her husband removed a glove and displayed his stump to the courtroom.[/quote]
How the fuck do you make a basic mistake like that when framing someone.
So, this dude was allowed to serve as a riot police member with his hand blown away? Well, that's kinda strange.
His lawyer mentioned "he can't really shoot" yet there's this picture with Sadovnyk. [t]http://nasha-rodina.in.ua/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/3.jpg[/t] And here you can see him shooting at the protestors holding the gun the same way. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yShAhbKX9Bw[/media] (skip to 0:57) I doubt this is an attempt to frame somebody.
[quote]The problem: Sadovnyk doesn't have two hands. His right hand, his wife told Reuters, was blown off by a grenade in a training accident six years ago.[/quote] How could you overlook something like that.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;46198818]His lawyer mentioned "he can't really shoot" yet there's this picture with Sadovnyk. [t]http://nasha-rodina.in.ua/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/3.jpg[/t] And here you can see him shooting at the protestors holding the gun the same way. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yShAhbKX9Bw[/media] (skip to 0:57) I doubt this is an attempt to frame somebody.[/QUOTE] This. He's guilty as hell, and the "only has one hand" defense is crap. You can still shoot with only one hand, and as picture and video evidence clearly shows, he not only could shoot with one hand, but he DID. Kudos to his lawyer though for attempting to work with this defense though. It's an uphill battle, and he's desperately working with whatever he can.
[QUOTE=Govna;46199269]This. He's guilty as hell, and the "only has one hand" defense is crap. You can still shoot with only one hand, and as picture and video evidence clearly shows, he not only could shoot with one hand, but he DID. Kudos to his lawyer though for attempting to work with this defense though. It's an uphill battle, and he's desperately working with whatever he can.[/QUOTE] Why is the prosecution using a photo of somebody that that clearly cannot be him or at least not anytime near the time of the event, then?
Is Sadovnyk wearing a prosthesis in that video, because he has two hands but fires like he does in the picture.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;46199401]Why is the prosecution using a photo of somebody that that clearly cannot be him or at least not anytime near the time of the event, then?[/QUOTE] But the photos [I]are[/I] of him. Supposedly of him with two hands, and that's where the discrepancy comes in: he doesn't have two hands. So it can't possibly be him, right? Yeah, no. Either the photo has been doctored, or, more likely, he has a prosthetic which he wears from time to time.
[QUOTE=Govna;46199699]But the photos [I]are[/I] of him. Supposedly of him with two hands, and that's where the discrepancy comes in: he doesn't have two hands. So it can't possibly be him, right? Yeah, no. Either the photo has been doctored, or, more likely, he has a prosthetic which he wears from time to time.[/QUOTE] If the photo was doctored then it wouldn't be wise to use as evidence against him.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;46198666]How the fuck do you make a basic mistake like that when framing someone.[/QUOTE] Sometimes you're too busy looking for someone to pin the blame on that you forget about the little details of fitting it all together.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;46200415]If the photo was doctored then it wouldn't be wise to use as evidence against him.[/QUOTE] Which is why it's a safe bet to make that he actually had a prosthetic on when it was taken. I was just throwing the doctored photo idea out there as conjecture.
[QUOTE=Govna;46201418]Which is why it's a safe bet to make that he actually had a prosthetic on when it was taken. I was just throwing the doctored photo idea out there as conjecture.[/QUOTE] Well, if it wasn't doctored it had to be a prosthesis or just the empty glove, I rewatched the video and he's either got a prosthesis or empty glove on his missing hand.
I wouldn't doubt it being B.S. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46202744]I wouldn't doubt it being B.S. Ukraine is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth.[/QUOTE] [url=www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results]Right up there alongside Russia you mean?[/url]
[QUOTE=Govna;46202812][url=www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results]Right up there alongside Russia you mean?[/url][/QUOTE] Yeah. Russia is corrupt but not as corrupt as Ukraine.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46202932]Yeah. Russia is corrupt but not as corrupt as Ukraine.[/QUOTE] 110% of russians agree!
[QUOTE=Chubbs;46203015]110% of russians agree![/QUOTE] They do.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;46200415]If the photo was doctored then it wouldn't be wise to use as evidence against him.[/QUOTE] Yes, but the other point that he wears a prosthetic hand is still valid. If he was one handed and never owned, wore or possessed in any way a fake hand which looks like his real hand then it would be a slam dunk case. But there's clear evidence that he can still fire a gun while wearing his prosthetic hand. This article hinges on the idea of this photo being used alone to substantiate his presence. It may be the case the photo is not of him, or is not itself reliable evidence for reasons, but that hinges on the [I]photo[/I] not on his [I]capabilities.[/I] By demonstrating he has only one hand they're showing the photo is bad evidence that must be dismissed, because the photographed man has two clear hands (unless you could somehow demonstrate one of the hands is a very nice fake.) It does happen that bad evidence is caught and thrown out without the person being innocent. In fact most cases of "Clearly guilty, ruled innocent" revolve around plain evidence and evidentiary standards.
[QUOTE=Govna;46202812][url=www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results]Right up there alongside Russia you mean?[/url][/QUOTE] What does Russia have to do with it? "Russia is shit too" is not an argument
[QUOTE=Laserbeams;46203350]What does Russia have to do with it? "Russia is shit too" is not an argument[/QUOTE] With the Russian shills of SH, yeah, it really is an argument. A legitimate one, especially when they're pointing fingers about corruption.
[QUOTE=Govna;46203402]With the Russian shills of SH, yeah, it really is an argument. A legitimate one, especially when they're pointing fingers about corruption.[/QUOTE] It's not an argument. If you go into a Russia thread and say "well the US did X, X, X,X and current does Z and Y" you will get "that's not an argument you fucking shill, go step on a landmine".
[QUOTE=laserguided;46203430]It's not an argument. If you go into a Russia thread and say "well the US did X, X, X,X and current does Z and Y" you will get "that's not an argument you fucking shill, go step on a landmine".[/QUOTE] Sure it is. When you start accusing Ukraine of making this whole story up, because it's supposedly so corrupt, even when there's overwhelming evidence showing that it's actually true, including photographic and video evidence, it's perfectly legitimate. Add to that fact that you have a massive, hilarious hardon for anything Russian, and it just makes all the more sense to bring it up. Are you paid to shitpost all the pro-Russian threads you do or what? Or are you an immigrant who hasn't gotten rid of his nationalism? Or what? I've been trying to figure what motivates you to say all this crap for months now.
[QUOTE=Govna;46203489]Sure it is. When you start accusing Ukraine of making this whole story up, because it's supposedly so corrupt, even when there's overwhelming evidence showing that it's actually true, including photographic and video evidence, it's perfectly legitimate. Add to that fact that you have a massive, hilarious hardon for anything Russian, and it just makes all the more sense to bring it up. Are you paid to shitpost all the pro-Russian threads you do or what? Or are you an immigrant who hasn't gotten rid of his nationalism? Or what? I've been trying to figure what motivates you to say all this crap for months now.[/QUOTE] Whom are you an alt of?
[QUOTE=Govna;46203489]Sure it is. When you start accusing Ukraine of making this whole story up, because it's supposedly so corrupt, even when there's overwhelming evidence showing that it's actually true, including photographic and video evidence, it's perfectly legitimate. Add to that fact that you have a massive, hilarious hardon for anything Russian, and it just makes all the more sense to bring it up. Are you paid to shitpost all the pro-Russian threads you do or what? Or are you an immigrant who hasn't gotten rid of his nationalism? Or what? I've been trying to figure what motivates you to say all this crap for months now.[/QUOTE] He didn't accuse anyone though. The article is by Reuters and this thread is made by Smurfy
[QUOTE=laserguided;46203543]Whom are you an alt of?[/QUOTE] *Since July, 3 months now The fact you've been here two years as of Wednesday, have 9,000+ posts, and almost all of your threads even before then have concerned Russia is why I ask what your motivation is. Because I can't fucking figure it. [editline]11th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Laserbeams;46203615]He didn't accuse anyone though. The article is by Reuters and this thread is made by Smurfy[/QUOTE] Yeah he did. "The Ukraine's corrupt, I think it's all BS from them and Sadovnyk is innocent despite all the evidence to the contrary." Same old shit.
[QUOTE=Govna;46203708]*Since July, 3 months now The fact you've been here two years as of Wednesday, have 9,000+ posts, and almost all of your threads even before then have concerned Russia is why I ask what your motivation is. Because I can't fucking figure it.[/QUOTE] What's your motivation for giving a fuck? [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;46203708] Yeah he did. "The Ukraine's corrupt, I think it's BS". Same old shit.[/QUOTE] If you're going to twist somebodies words you need to use single quotes not double quotes. [QUOTE]"I wouldn't doubt it being B.S." [/QUOTE] Is the correct format.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46203713]What's your motivation for giving a fuck?[/QUOTE] The fact that this is a daily/almost daily to-be-expected routine from you. Don't really give a fuck so much as just genuinely interested and curious, and a little frustrated over the fact there's no obvious answer to any of it.
[QUOTE=laserguided;46203713]What's your motivation for giving a fuck? [editline]10th October 2014[/editline] If you're going to twist somebodies words you need to use single quotes not double quotes. Is the correct format.[/QUOTE] It's funny how you're still trying hard to hide the fact you're a shill. Like can you get any more obvious, we get it, you hate Ukraine and you're obsessed with Russia now please leave the thread.
[QUOTE=Ghost656;46206212]It's funny how you're still trying hard to hide the fact you're a shill. Like can you get any more obvious, we get it, you hate Ukraine and you're obsessed with Russia now please leave the thread.[/QUOTE] So what, only pro-western bias is allowed here?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.