After China's multibillion-dollar cleanup, water still unfit to drink
63 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672381]they're poor, what do you expect.
That wasn't surprising, if people were that poor here they'd go insane too.[/QUOTE]
no, it's cultural
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672400]no, it's cultural[/QUOTE]
how do you figure that?
i don't remember reading how poor hagglers were a backbone of ancient chinese history..
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672145]you people need to realise something..
i went to china, visited 7 cities. not one of them more polluted than London.
all these news stories are poor misrepresentation. They use electric scooters, there's not a sound of 2-stroke when I went.[/QUOTE]
Really?
Which cities? I've not visited many cities, but the major ones such as Beijing and Shanghai are quite polluted. Especially Beijing, it was pretty bad when I was there last time in 2012.
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672414]how do you figure that?
i don't remember reading how poor hagglers were a backbone of ancient chinese history..[/QUOTE]
uncle isn't very poor, yet he haggles, same with my other relatives. (rich enough to hide their wealth during the CR to prevent getting shafted)
before you say it's a family thing, I've seen friends, and just random people on the street who are wearing relatively expensive clothes doing it as well.
and you wouldn't see this mentioned in the history books anyways.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;39672432]Really?
Which cities? I've not visited many cities, but the major ones such as Beijing and Shanghai are quite polluted. Especially Beijing, it was pretty bad when I was there last time in 2012.[/QUOTE]
I expected Chongqing, the most populous city, to be crazy. It wasn't, in fact it's a fabulous city.
The Yangtze river is breathtaking, however that's the only real sad point for the journey since the dam they built forced hundreds to relocate, it destroyed communities.
[editline]21st February 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672441]uncle isn't very poor, yet he haggles, same with my other relatives. (rich enough to hide their wealth during the CR to prevent getting shafted)
before you say it's a family thing, I've seen friends, and just random people on the street who are wearing relatively expensive clothes doing it as well.
and you wouldn't see this mentioned in the history books anyways.[/QUOTE]
I'm not fully on board with what you're saying, you said haggling was part of chinese culture?
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672559]I'm not fully on board with what you're saying, you said haggling was part of chinese culture?[/QUOTE]
yes, because everyone does it, and they've done it for most of their history (according to people who live there)
Prices that are listed for an item are always too high, etc.
Point is: people don't do it simply because they're poor.
Man it's like something out of Stalker!
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672598]yes, because everyone does it, and they've done it for most of their history (according to people who live there)
Prices that are listed for an item are always too high, etc.[/QUOTE]
Ok, and... how would you know it's cultural?
I'm not seeing how poor people being poor would be culturally significant. It's simple reality and occurs in most of Asia and Africa, what they do is not a cultural act..
[editline]21st February 2013[/editline]
Unlike in Thailand where they sell from small boats. Those shopping centres on boats are damn cool.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672598]because everyone does it,[/QUOTE]
yeah that's false.
Its still remarkable that even though some parts of China are downright terrible, America still produces more pollution per capital.
I wonder where they're keeping it all?
[QUOTE=laserguided;39666170]China used to be a beautiful country until they mass industrialized and ruined their country. Now a good portion of it is a shithole with dirty water, polluted water sources and worse.[/QUOTE]
Just like every other country that industrialized.
It's for the better in the long run. China is like 19th century Europe, just before they started to bring in regulations and democratic reforms (which has very slowly begun).
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672220]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ZKQJCNtl.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Kinda looks like a HL2 map.
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672638]Ok, and... how would you know it's cultural?
I'm not seeing how poor people being poor would be culturally significant. It's simple reality and occurs in most of Asia and Africa, what they do is not a cultural act..
[/QUOTE]
uhhhh get it through your skull that the people that I were with and am talking about WERE NOT POOR? really, is it that hard to understand.
and if you want to nitpick, not everyone, but the vast majority of people do.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672689]uhhhh get it through your skull that the people that I were with and am talking about WERE NOT POOR? really, is it that hard to understand.
and if you want to nitpick, not everyone, but the vast majority of people do.[/QUOTE]
I thought you were generalising the whole of china as a nation of insane hagglers.
Good thing i misunderstood.
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672802]I thought you were generalising the whole of china as a nation of insane hagglers.
Good thing i misunderstood.[/QUOTE]
I'm not the one who was making the generalization that they're more placid then westerners.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39672846]I'm not the one who was making the generalization that they're more placid then westerners.[/QUOTE]
not westerners... londoners. :v:
[QUOTE=AK'z;39672856]not westerners... londoners. :v:[/QUOTE]
ok, maybe then :v:
hey, at least they're trying
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39672669]Just like every other country that industrialized.
It's for the better in the long run. China is like 19th century Europe, just before they started to bring in regulations and democratic reforms (which has very slowly begun).[/QUOTE]
Democracy won't work in China.
[QUOTE=laserguided;39674176]Democracy won't work in China.[/QUOTE]
That is a rather blank statement.
[I]Western[/I] democracy probably wouldn't work. But hell, even the Communist Party in China is surprisingly democratic internally so its not like its a totally alienable idea.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39674218]That is a rather blank statement.
[I]Western[/I] democracy probably wouldn't work. But hell, even the Communist Party in China is surprisingly democratic internally so its not like its a totally alienable idea.[/QUOTE]
Well for one its huge so any new and upcoming party would need to spend a shit-tonne to be able to win over some votes. The ruling party already has amassed billions in wealth so it wouldn't be an issue, they would probably win in any democracy. Why would the the Communist Party of China commit to any democratic system in the first place? It would be against their own interests and they already maintain very high approval rating. Then you have voter fraud, in such a massive country like China it would be hard to keep track of abuse and corrupt activities.
I think the guys who planned out China were just really bad at Simcity 4.
[QUOTE=laserguided;39674273]Well for one its huge so any new and upcoming party would need to spend a shit-tonne to be able to win over some votes. The ruling party already has amassed billions in wealth so it wouldn't be an issue, they would probably win in any democracy. Why would the the Communist Party of China commit to any democratic system in the first place? It would be against their own interests and they already maintain very high approval rating. Then you have voter fraud, in such a massive country like China it would be hard to keep track of abuse and corrupt activities.[/QUOTE]
Parts of China (like Macau and Hong Kong) already have democratic elections. Plus on village and town levels there are also elections for many positions.
Plus the party is slowly being influenced from within and externally, it's a given that the party will be forced to either give reform or grant them over time, especially given that there are directly elected and indirectly elected officials (with more elected officials over time becoming the norm).
[IMG]http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130130163112-03-beijing-smog-0130-horizontal-gallery.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://d1pax3e3t5tpyh.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/IZ-AJWHk5zSkcYxxqS9DTu5o0NxJ82gBH1NM4VIIKII/mtime:1358233662/sites/default/files/styles/web_full/public/smog-jan-12-2013-pangu-building.jpg[/IMG]
Things aren't too good for your country when your people need to be reminded what a blue sky looks like.
What I want to see before I die:
[t]http://puu.sh/26uz8[/t]
What I will probably see before I die:
[t]http://puu.sh/26uAf[/t]
Come on, China.
[QUOTE=magicman1234;39675697]
[IMG]http://d1pax3e3t5tpyh.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/IZ-AJWHk5zSkcYxxqS9DTu5o0NxJ82gBH1NM4VIIKII/mtime:1358233662/sites/default/files/styles/web_full/public/smog-jan-12-2013-pangu-building.jpg[/IMG]
Things aren't too good for your country when your people need to be reminded what a blue sky looks like.[/QUOTE]
Looks like Blade Runner
Damn, I'v never seen air so thick since there was a minor forest fire where i live
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39675453]Parts of China (like Macau and Hong Kong) already have democratic elections. Plus on village and town levels there are also elections for many positions.
[/QUOTE]
if you really think Hong Kong considers itself to be part of china you're pretty mistaken.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39677819]if you really think Hong Kong considers itself to be part of china you're pretty mistaken.[/QUOTE]
My dad votes in every Hong Kong election - not because he doesn't think its all a sham, but because him and many other people like to send a message to Beijing that democracy is wanted.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39678948]My dad votes in every Hong Kong election - not because he doesn't think its all a sham, but because him and many other people like to send a message to Beijing that democracy is wanted.[/QUOTE]
well they consider themselves to be pretty independent from china, that's all I'm saying (especially politically)
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39677819]if you really think Hong Kong considers itself to be part of china you're pretty mistaken.[/QUOTE]
What about the village and town elections?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39679943]What about the village and town elections?[/QUOTE]
how is that relevant?
I'm talking about whether Hong Kong considers itself to be part of china.
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