Boris Johnson vows UK ties with EU will be strengthened after referendum result
117 replies, posted
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605616]Are you legitimately this fucking thick? Are you seriously about to tell me that you can ignore entire fields of science because you don't like them?
Economics is a science, just like biology or physics. There's certain models with tried, tested, dare I say proven predictive capability which are literally what our money and capitalistic way of life are BASED ON.
It's not like those links I gave you are fucking bloggers going "ok heres what I think will happen"
They're written by people who have dedicated their lives to understanding macroeconomics, their work is based on the life's work of thousands, hundreds of thousands of political and economic scientists.
[B]We know pretty fucking well what's gonna happen.[/B] It's not some free-for-all shot in the dark.[/QUOTE]
1. Economic Theory.
2. I never doubted the stats you put forward. I just look at this as less possible risk of being in the EU if something massive happens to it. I've never denied the UK has hard times ahead.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605717]1. Economic Theory.
2. I never doubted the stats you put forward. I just look at this as less possible risk of being in the EU if something massive happens to it. I've never denied the UK has hard times ahead.[/QUOTE]
O hey are you now gonna say that a scientific theory is not trustworthy?
I'm losing my shit here lmao
Ok so, you don't doubt the stats I provided you links to.
Those stats say that the UK is worse off in every measurable way for several decades as a result of Brexit.
So why exactly are you for leaving again?
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605742]O hey are you now gonna say that a scientific theory is not trustworthy?
I'm losing my shit here lmao
Ok so, you don't doubt the stats I provided you links to.
Those stats say that the UK is worse off in every measurable way for several decades as a result of Brexit.
So why exactly are you for leaving again?[/QUOTE]
EU direction. Tbh the whole superstate thing is a load of shit that will probably either start a war with Russia or horribly collapse and begin infighting. Making their own army and removing NATO, all that stuff.
I do worry the average persons voice will be lost under an institution that size. The EU is a nice theory, but I think overall doomed.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605766]EU direction. Tbh the whole superstate thing is a load of shit that will probably either start a war with Russia or horribly collapse and begin infighting. Making their own army and removing NATO, all that stuff.[/QUOTE]
OH OH OH we got a statement out of you
now can you provide non-blogger sources that demonstrate that the EU wants to become one superstate and start a war [B](that it would 100% lose without NATO)[/B]
Do you ever fucking even think before you spout this retarded shit
I mean honestly what do you think the EU is made of. The members of it are fucking ELECTED. They're accountable, if they go too far from what the people want then they'll get shafted.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605766]EU direction. Tbh the whole superstate thing is a load of shit that will probably either start a war with Russia or horribly collapse and begin infighting. Making their own army and removing NATO, all that stuff.
I do worry the average persons voice will be lost under an institution that size.[/QUOTE]
Russia invaded Ukraine and started a rebellion that divided the country, Turkey shot down a russian plane and that didn't start a war, are you kidding me
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605791]OH OH OH we got a statement out of you
now can you provide non-blogger sources that demonstrate that the EU wants to become one superstate and start a war [B](that it would 100% lose without NATO)[/B]
Do you ever fucking even think before you spout this retarded shit[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit[/url]
??????
The army one is already on FP. :/
[editline]28th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;50605796]Russia invaded Ukraine and started a rebellion that divided the country, Turkey shot down a russian plane and that didn't start a war, are you kidding me[/QUOTE]
Ukraine isn't in NATO. Also it's just a plane, Russians knew it would happen eventually. They have a history of testing airspace, news threads on SH every while about a new incident.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605810][url]http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit[/url]
??????[/QUOTE]
Wow an A+++ tabloid source.
"The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”. "
[B]Do you actually believe this shit.[/B]
"Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels."
Where. Dear fucking tabloid, please source a single thing.
Wow look at that there's fucking NO SOURCES ANYWHERE IN THE ARTICLE.
Literally the entire 'article' is devoid of any sources.
This is a fucking blogpost. Get me a proper source that actually considers the fact that the EU is still made up of elected officials from each member nation, each with the interests of their country at least seemingly in mind. Parliament would never let anything like this pass, and if it did it would destroy the EU instantly.
Do you ever think before you open your mouth.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605842]Wow an A+++ tabloid source.
"The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”. "
[B]Do you actually believe this shit.[/B]
"Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels."
Where. Dear fucking tabloid, please source a single thing.
Wow look at that there's fucking NO SOURCES ANYWHERE IN THE ARTICLE.
Literally the entire 'article' is devoid of any sources.
This is a fucking blogpost. Get me a proper source that actually considers the fact that the EU is still made up of elected officials from each member nation, each with the interests of their country at least seemingly in mind. Parliament would never let anything like this pass, and if it did it would destroy the EU instantly.
Do you ever think before you open your mouth.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1524742[/url]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605842]Wow an A+++ tabloid source.
"The foreign ministers of France and Germany are due to reveal a blueprint to effectively do away with individual member states in what is being described as an “ultimatum”. "
[B]Do you actually believe this shit.[/B]
"Under the radical proposals EU countries will lose the right to have their own army, criminal law, taxation system or central bank, with all those powers being transferred to Brussels."
Where. Dear fucking tabloid, please source a single thing.
Wow look at that there's fucking NO SOURCES ANYWHERE IN THE ARTICLE.
Literally the entire 'article' is devoid of any sources.
This is a fucking blogpost. Get me a proper source that actually considers the fact that the EU is still made up of elected officials from each member nation, each with the interests of their country at least seemingly in mind. Parliament would never let anything like this pass, and if it did it would destroy the EU instantly.
Do you ever think before you open your mouth.[/QUOTE]
Considering army announcement, this is where it's heading regardless of sources tbh.
If your as smart as you some what claim by telling me to think before opening my mouth, even you should be able to see the federalisied Europe that is coming.
[QUOTE=Superkilll307;50605850][url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1524742[/url][/QUOTE]
Yeah so? They propose a possible end state for the EU's [B]financial and military security[/B]
Now we come to definition of superstate, because having a unified military is a good thing, it's stronger than our individual militaries. Having a unified fiscal and monetary policy center is a good thing, since it would help fix the shit Greece has been doing much better than what we're doing now.
Now, if your definition of superstate is "country borders will be destroyed you all now belong to the country of Europe and you no longer have sovereignty" then no, that's not ever going to happen.
[editline]27th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605859]Considering army announcement, this is where it's heading regardless of sources tbh.[/QUOTE]
[B]ARMY[/B]
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605870]Yeah so? They propose a possible end state for the EU's [B]financial and military security[/B]
Now we come to definition of superstate, because having a unified military is a good thing, it's stronger than our individual militaries. Having a unified fiscal and monetary policy center is a good thing, since it would help fix the shit Greece has been doing much better than what we're doing now.
Now, if your definition of superstate is "country borders will be destroyed you all now belong to the country of Europe and you no longer have sovereignty" then no, that's not ever going to happen.
[editline]27th June 2016[/editline]
[B]ARMY[/B][/QUOTE]
I don't disagree i was just posting a better source.
EU superstate will happen, it's already got a national anthem, central government and an army underway -- the frog is in the pot and the heat is slowly going up. Many now actually welcome the idea now they cannot really brush it under the rug, the argument against the Right has changed to issue of being a powerful economical block, fighting against Russia / America and so on so forth; a united Europe to challenge the world.
A lot on the Left are welcoming such a idea, I don't see many bother to deny such a thing is happening these days.
[QUOTE=Vasili;50605922]EU superstate will happen, a national anthem, army, central government etc -- the frog in the pot and the heat is slowly going up. Many now actually welcome the idea now they cannot really brush it under the rug, the argument against the Right has changed to issue of being a powerful economical block, fighting against Russia / America and so on so forth; a united Europe to challenge the world.
A lot on the Left are welcoming such a idea, I don't see many bother to deny such a thing is happening these days.[/QUOTE]
We actually already have an anthem, its ode to joy.
[QUOTE=Vasili;50605922]EU superstate will happen, a national anthem, army, central government etc -- the frog in the pot and the heat is slowly going up. Many now actually welcome the idea now they cannot really brush it under the rug, the argument against the Right has changed to issue of being a powerful economical block, fighting against Russia / America and so on so forth; a united Europe to challenge the world.
A lot on the Left are welcoming such a idea, I don't see many bother to deny such a thing is happening these days.[/QUOTE]
Everyone denies the idea of countries losing their sovereignty. It's not a thing that could ever happen looking at how the EU is set up.
A unified military and fiscal policy however is good, like I said.
The people against that tend to use the same slippery slope argument people used against gay marriage. "If we let gays marry then people will marry their dogs!" "If we have a unified security force then we will lose all of our individuality and sovereignty as nations"
Might be a strawman tbh but eh.
[QUOTE=Vasili;50605922]EU superstate will happen, it's already got a national anthem, central government and an army underway -- the frog is in the pot and the heat is slowly going up. Many now actually welcome the idea now they cannot really brush it under the rug, the argument against the Right has changed to issue of being a powerful economical block, fighting against Russia / America and so on so forth; a united Europe to challenge the world.
A lot on the Left are welcoming such a idea, I don't see many bother to deny such a thing is happening these days.[/QUOTE]
thank god we avoided that frog in pot scenario
we just threw the frog straight into the fire
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;50605976]thank god we avoided that frog in pot scenario
we just threw the frog straight into the fire[/QUOTE]
The frog was assured that the idea that fire would hurt was fear mongering.
You'd be semi correct actually, historically the UK has never wanted a united Europe.
In the end the state realised the best way to undermine the EU's efforts was by being inside of it.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;50605870]Yeah so? They propose a possible end state for the EU's [B]financial and military security[/B]
Now we come to definition of superstate, because having a unified military is a good thing, it's stronger than our individual militaries. Having a unified fiscal and monetary policy center is a good thing, since it would help fix the shit Greece has been doing much better than what we're doing now.
Now, if your definition of superstate is "country borders will be destroyed you all now belong to the country of Europe and you no longer have sovereignty" then no, that's not ever going to happen.
[editline]27th June 2016[/editline]
[B]ARMY[/B][/QUOTE]
According to a Dutch article I read it doesn't even call for a unified EU army, just more cooperation between the EU armies. I'm guessing something like 'EU Battlegroups' where units from different nations are grouped into EU units, but can also still act independently for their own country like someone mentioned in some other thread. France and Germany and Germany and the Netherlands already have something similar to that.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605590]You've explained whats going to "happen" in the UK. Unless you have a time machine you can't tell me the rest.[/QUOTE]
You and karlosfandango seem to share the same kind of simpleton mindset where you just ignore stuff or go "you can't know for sure" whenever something is against your opinion
[editline]27th June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Boilrig;50605859]Considering army announcement, this is where it's heading regardless of sources tbh.
If your as smart as you some what claim by telling me to think before opening my mouth, even you should be able to see the federalisied Europe that is coming.[/QUOTE]
There wasn't an army announcement an EMP who is known to be the biggest lobby shill of the weapons industry shouted a retarded opinion of what he thinks should happen would you please start reading more than headlines?
[QUOTE=Killuah;50606519]You and karlosfandango seem to share the same kind of simpleton mindset where you just ignore stuff or go "you can't know for sure" whenever something is against your opinion
[editline]27th June 2016[/editline]
There wasn't an army announcement an EMP who is known to be the biggest lobby shill of the weapons industry shouted a retarded opinion of what he thinks should happen would you please start reading more than headlines?[/QUOTE]Didn't you know that the people that knew the pound sterling would drop are all witches..
[QUOTE=Vasili;50606110]You'd be semi correct actually, historically the UK has never wanted a united Europe.
In the end the state realised the best way to undermine the EU's efforts was by being inside of it.[/QUOTE]
What is it with all of you pro brexiters posting downright wrong or uneducated bullshit all the time
[url]http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Killuah;50606555]What is it with all of you pro brexiters posting downright wrong or uneducated bullshit all the time
[url]http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Because they wouldn't have voted pro Brexit otherwise obviously.
Boil rig is a confirmed troll, stop baiting him.
[QUOTE=Killuah;50606555]What is it with all of you pro brexiters posting downright wrong or uneducated bullshit all the time
[url]http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Churchill wanted a united Europe, that didn't include the UK: [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euroscepticism_in_the_United_Kingdom[/url]
Other than that, since being in the EU the UK has in some form or another always tried to undermine it. Historically the UK funded groups in Europe to cause instability, specifically the Napoleonic wars.
It's no surprise EU's parliament is sighing in relief the UK is not there to block their most recent proposal, including the European Army they've been trying to push through since 2011.
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