• Trump announces ban on transgender people in U.S. military
    387 replies, posted
I don't even really have a joke for this. This is entirely an act of random bigotry and hatefulness. There's no way to make light of it.
Lesson for Republicans to learn: Be careful about what you wish for, you just might get it. It also really speaks to Trump's CEO mindset: "X group of employees are holding up proceedings to make my important thing happen? [I]Fire them[/I], they're not as important as this!" He still hasn't figured out that civil service doesn't work like private corporations do.
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;52510128]Gender is a construct of the mind. It's a human-made parameter by which you can express your identity. If you're labeled by society to be one thing, but find that the label causes distress for you, then it follows that your cultural circumstances--your society and its views--are responsible for your dysphoria, no?[/QUOTE] Gender Roles are a social construct, Gender is what your brain thinks it is. To say Gender isn't real implies Transgender people can't be real, because how could you be the wrong gender if it doesn't exist? There's evidence that at least some Transgender people have brain characteristics associated with the opposite sex, so it's not simply psychological.
RIP tens of millions in dollars of training and millions of hours of experience. Guess we don't care about the fact that these people passed the rigorous process to get into the military, and have served the military, and now we're gonna dump them because the new guy feels uncomfortable around them.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52510258]Uhhh....[/QUOTE] Trump sure can conjure up a clusterfuck out of nothing
[quote]More conservative representatives argued that the measure would be a waste of taxpayer money while more moderate Republicans considered a funding ban inherently discriminatory.[/quote] "Waste of taxpayer money". Oh please. That argument is fucking stupid, and it always has been fucking stupid. If you actually cared about the taxpayers, you wouldn't be so wasteful and inefficient yourselves. You don't deserve anything near your salaries and benefits what with your horrible behavior the last decade or two. This logic about how transgenders are destroying the military and how it isn't a "social experiment" reminds me of the same shit people were spewing over a century ago about prohibiting blacks from serving-- or more recently, how they were arguing against just lesbians and gays. Same tactics, new boogeymen.
The problem with America is we're so open to everyone. America will accept you no matter your race or religion or beliefs. That's a nice thing and all, but that means you'll never be able to make everyone happy, because one demographic doesn't like this one. It's mostly old people, though, that are like this. The people 30 and younger don't really give a fuck and see everyone as just fellow citizens. I suspect this will be the last generation that clutches so hard to their own personal beliefs and tries to govern by them. And by govern I mean rule. Because living off our dime and interjecting only your own personal beliefs into how you represent your citizens is ruling, not representing.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510497]America will accept you no matter your race or religion or beliefs.[/quote] Ha ha, good joke man. [editline]ohhamburgers[/editline] But on a serious note I'm really hoping we as a society can move past this exclusionary phase within the next 5-10 years
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510497]The problem with America is we're so open to everyone. America will accept you no matter your race or religion or beliefs. [/QUOTE] fucking what [editline]26th July 2017[/editline] the problem yall have is literally the exact opposite
Best damn decision he's made so far!
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510497]The problem with America is we're so open to everyone. America will accept you no matter your race or religion or beliefs. That's a nice thing and all, but that means you'll never be able to make everyone happy, because one demographic doesn't like this one. It's mostly old people, though, that are like this. The people 30 and younger don't really give a fuck and see everyone as just fellow citizens. I suspect this will be the last generation that clutches so hard to their own personal beliefs and tries to govern by them. And by govern I mean rule. Because living off our dime and interjecting only your own personal beliefs into how you represent your citizens is ruling, not representing.[/QUOTE] What America do you live in..........
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510497]The problem with America is we're so open to everyone. America will accept you no matter your race or religion or beliefs.[/QUOTE] This is what America wants you to believe. And from a general consensus, it's the country's goal. But unfortunately a lot of the people in-charge don't agree with the ideology of open-mindedness and accepting of people for who they are. And so as long as we keep getting people like that, it won't change.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52510560]fucking what [editline]26th July 2017[/editline] the problem yall have is literally the exact opposite[/QUOTE] No, it's not. We will accept you as a citizen no matter who you are. It doesn't matter your race or religion, if you're gay or straight, you can be a citizen here. I'm not saying everyone's equal though. Never in our history has everyone been equal
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510623]No, it's not. We will accept you as a citizen no matter who you are. It doesn't matter your race or religion, you can be a citizen here. I'm not saying everyone's equal though. Never in our history has everyone been equal[/QUOTE] ah yes, now i understand you accept everyone... you just don't accept everyone equally! which totally invalidates your whole fucking point
-my issue-
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52510636]ah yes, now i understand you accept everyone... you just don't accept everyone equally! which totally invalidates your whole fucking point[/QUOTE] I don't think it does. The point I'm making is anyone can be a citizen here, which means every way of life lives here, and it's impossible to make everyone happy, currently, because those governing the country see everyone as Black White Straight Gay, This or That, rather than what they are: Fellow American Citizens, which is how I and almost every 30 and under sees people who live here
[QUOTE=DChapsfield;52510128]Gender is a construct of the mind. It's a human-made parameter by which you can express your identity. If you're labeled by society to be one thing, but find that the label causes distress for you, then it follows that your cultural circumstances--your society and its views--are responsible for your dysphoria, no? Not being comfortable in your own skin comes from societal rejection. If there were no community around you that would tell you how to express yourself based on the way you appeared, you would never question the way you behaved. Dysphoria wouldn't occur because you would have no notion of 'gender' in the first place. Therefore, if society is what informs us of how we ought to express ourselves, society is responsible for the distress we feel when the way we want to express ourselves is not congruent with others' expectations.[/QUOTE] you do realise that some "sexologist" (john money) thought this in the 1960s and used it as the basis for mutilating little childrens genitals and forced them to be raised as the opposite sex under that assumption right? those kids committed suicide, which is as strong an argument you can make society isn't the issue here. even if you control for it, you have to face some very very uncomfortable facts when the patients (more like victims) end up committing suicide
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510651]I don't think it does. The point I'm making is anyone can be a citizen here, which means every way of life lives here, and it's impossible to make everyone happy, currently, because those governing the country see everyone as Black White Straight Gay, This or That, rather than what they are: Fellow American Citizens, which is how I and almost every 30 and under sees people who live here[/QUOTE] You are not making a point. You're regurgitating idealistic trash that has no substance behind it. America has anything but an accepting culture. To describe what is possibly the most conservative developed country in the planet as if it were the pinnacle of liberalism is fucking absurd You know what America does have (or at least, has had for most of its recent history)? The most powerful economy in the world. Its multiculturalism is a byproduct of economic prosperity, not a sign of acceptance
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52510358]Gender Roles are a social construct, Gender is what your brain thinks it is. To say Gender isn't real implies Transgender people can't be real, because how could you be the wrong gender if it doesn't exist? There's evidence that at least some Transgender people have brain characteristics associated with the opposite sex, so it's not simply psychological.[/QUOTE] Gender as a purely social construct is basically astrology.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510651]I don't think it does. The point I'm making is anyone can be a citizen here, which means every way of life lives here, and it's impossible to make everyone happy, currently, because those governing the country see everyone as Black White Straight Gay, This or That, rather than what they are: Fellow American Citizens, which is how I and almost every 30 and under sees people who live here[/QUOTE] There's so many bigots under 30.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;52510497]The problem with America is we're so open to everyone. America will accept you no matter your race or religion or beliefs. That's a nice thing and all, but that means you'll never be able to make everyone happy, because one demographic doesn't like this one. It's mostly old people, though, that are like this. The people 30 and younger don't really give a fuck and see everyone as just fellow citizens. I suspect this will be the last generation that clutches so hard to their own personal beliefs and tries to govern by them. And by govern I mean rule. Because living off our dime and interjecting only your own personal beliefs into how you represent your citizens is ruling, not representing.[/QUOTE] I would give anything to live in the reality you live in
[QUOTE=Tuskin;52509864]The Canadian Forces posted this on their Social Media pages (more then likely) in response [video]https://twitter.com/CanadianForces/status/890288099573600256[/video][/QUOTE] I honestly love my country. I never thought I would grow past my political view of "its silly to be proud of your country" but I am honestly proud even if what they say is "we're not doing what that idiot is doing lol"
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;52510697]I honestly love my country. I never thought I would grow past my political view of "its silly to be proud of your country" but I am honestly proud even if what they say is "we're not doing what that idiot is doing lol"[/QUOTE] Honestly living so close to the border, I'm considering applying for citizenship more and more every day.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52510742]I don't think transgender individuals should be allowed to serve, and not because I have some inherent issue with them but because of the impracticality of it. Let's say an individual was born a man, identifies as a woman. Does she meet my 1.5 mile time? Or does she get special privileges and run the female 1.5 mile time? Same issue can be applied across the board. Do we allow an MTF to room and shower with other females during training or deployment? Do we allow females who identify as men to serve on the frontlines? Why do we need to complicate things and create all new regulations and expectations for a very very small group? Serving in the military isn't a right. It's a volunteer force. We aren't drafting people, this isn't some situation where we don't have enough people volunteering to join that we need to change the rules to allow previously disqualified groups to be drafted. If we're going to allow transgender individuals in the military, do you mind issuing some waivers for all my friends who were disqualified for asthma and eyesight issues? It's not a feel good organization, it's not about inclusion or being nice or conforming to societal changes, it's about war fighting.[/QUOTE] Considering they have to pass qualification tests to enlist, yeah they should be allowed.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52510742]I don't think transgender individuals should be allowed to serve, and not because I have some inherent issue with them but because of the impracticality of it. Let's say an individual was born a man, identifies as a woman. Does she meet my 1.5 mile time? Or does she get special privileges and run the female 1.5 mile time? Same issue can be applied across the board. Do we allow an MTF to room and shower with other females during training or deployment? Do we allow females who identify as men to serve on the frontlines? Why do we need to complicate things and create all new regulations and expectations for a very very small group? Serving in the military isn't a right. It's a volunteer force. We aren't drafting people, this isn't some situation where we don't have enough people volunteering to join that we need to change the rules to allow previously disqualified groups to be drafted. If we're going to allow transgender individuals in the military, do you mind issuing some waivers for all my friends who were disqualified for asthma and eyesight issues? It's not a feel good organization, it's not about inclusion or being nice or conforming to societal changes, it's about war fighting.[/QUOTE] If they can meet the qualifications to serve they should be able to serve,
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52510742]I don't think transgender individuals should be allowed to serve, and not because I have some inherent issue with them but because of the impracticality of it. Let's say an individual was born a man, identifies as a woman. Does she meet my 1.5 mile time? Or does she get special privileges and run the female 1.5 mile time? Same issue can be applied across the board. Do we allow an MTF to room and shower with other females during training or deployment? Do we allow females who identify as men to serve on the frontlines? Why do we need to complicate things and create all new regulations and expectations for a very very small group? Serving in the military isn't a right. It's a volunteer force. We aren't drafting people, this isn't some situation where we don't have enough people volunteering to join that we need to change the rules to allow previously disqualified groups to be drafted. If we're going to allow transgender individuals in the military, do you mind issuing some waivers for all my friends who were disqualified for asthma and eyesight issues? It's not a feel good organization, it's not about inclusion or being nice or conforming to societal changes, it's about war fighting.[/QUOTE] Here's how you fix the training thing: everyone trains at the same standard Here's how you fix the combat thing: everyone viable for combat is applicable for combat Woah damn I should be in the chiefs of staff
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52510757][URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/"]Source[/URL] Sounds like it should be disqualifying to me.[/QUOTE] Okay, but what does higher rates of depression and suicide have to do with military capability? What about the ones who aren't suicidal
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52510665]There's so many bigots under 30.[/QUOTE] This. So much this. It's really silly how often people generalise opinions and place people into neat little categories because it makes their world view simpler. It's especially annoying when the people doing it are also arguing that 'this generation of young people are more accepting/progressive/smarter/better' while also being hugely fucking ageist lol. Can't you see you're the exact same as the middle aged people who complain and say this generation is lazy/work shy and they just don't understand things like they do? The problem is not old fashioned bigots who are just 'set in their ways', because you're capable of adapting your opinions at any age, and there are countless old people who came from similar backgrounds yet aren't bigots themselves. Young people can be shitty too. All humans have the potential to be decent and well-informed, but that doesn't mean that they will be.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52510757][URL="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/"]Source[/URL] Sounds like it should be disqualifying to me.[/QUOTE] There is also a high suicide rate for non-transgender military members as well.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;52510742]Let's say an individual was born a man, identifies as a woman. Does she meet my 1.5 mile time? Or does she get special privileges and run the female 1.5 mile time?[/quote] According to a study by the Rand corp., “transgender personnel may need to be held medically exempt from physical fitness testing and requirements during transition. However, after completing transition, the service member could be required to meet the standards of the acquired gender.” [quote]Do we allow an MTF to room and shower with other females during training or deployment?[/quote] An [url=http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine/2015/05/14/marines-take-coed-living-in-stride-during-experiment/]experiment in 2015[/url] showed that coed living situations work fine. [quote]Do we allow females who identify as men to serve on the frontlines?[/quote] [url=http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/03/458319524/pentagon-will-allow-women-in-frontline-ground-combat-positions]Women are already serving in front line positions[/url] so it's not an issue. [quote]If we're going to allow transgender individuals in the military, do you mind issuing some waivers for all my friends who were disqualified for asthma and eyesight issues?[/quote] Unlike having asthma or eyesight, being transgender is not an affliction and doesn't affect your ability to perform. The fact that you think of it as being on par with having a medical issue that disqualifies you for service shows that you really do have an inherent issue with them regardless of whether or not you realize it.
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