[QUOTE=Wootman;31425543]To bad no one will miss any of those states.[/QUOTE]
Uh, wow.
[QUOTE=Dalndox;31425554]In other news the sky is blue and fire hurts.[/QUOTE]
in other news kiss my dick dipshit
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Good Comeback. Flaming" - daijitsu))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425540]I don't want to be on the Republicans' side, but technically the Democrats are at fault for not allowing this to pass. Sure, this bill is worse than what the Democrats had suggested, but it would at least avert a default and give additional time for each party to negotiate a long-term bill.
There is pretty much no chance of Reid's bill ever getting through the house as well, and there can be a blame on Republicans for his potentially not getting through, but the Democrats are at fault here for voting to not avoid the chance of default. If anything, both parties are at fault for this whole crisis.[/QUOTE]
The democrats DID concede, THEY DID make concessions. They have done everything they can to be bipartisan and help the country, but no. Had the democrats just "taken a deal" the country would be worse off. Boehners bill doesn't reduce the deficit in ANY shape. It doesn't cut spending AT ALL. Why agree with these demands? Why let tyrants play with the countries economy because they can't man up and fucking compromise like the democrats [B]have, will, and have been for years. [/B] Stop defending turds who aren't looking out for the betterment of anything.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425540][B]I don't want to be on the Republicans' side, but technically the Democrats are at fault for not allowing this to pass.[/B] Sure, this bill is worse than what the Democrats had suggested, but it would at least avert a default and give additional time for each party to negotiate a long-term bill.
There is pretty much no chance of Reid's bill ever getting through the house as well, and there can be a blame on Republicans for his potentially not getting through, but the Democrats are at fault here for voting to not avoid the chance of default. If anything, both parties are at fault for this whole crisis.[/QUOTE]
You cannot be serious. During the negotiations, Democrats tried to be compromising and fair, what did the Republicans do? They gave no concessions. Then they asked for more to get their Tea Party members on board, and you're telling me it's the Democrat's fault for not voted up an awful bill?
If the republicans filibuster there will be absolutely no way for them to spin it to make Obama appear at fault, it would probably be the best thing to happen to the democrats since Bush
"compromising and fair" still involves rejecting the other party's plan - just as the republicans are rejecting the democrat's
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425598]"compromising and fair" still involves rejecting the other party's plan - just as the republicans are rejecting the democrat's[/QUOTE]
Dude, are you thick? The democrats plans is littered with concessions for the republicans. Why the fuck can you blame the democrats in this situation? Stupidity? Blindness?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31425580]You cannot be serious. During the negotiations, Democrats tried to be compromising and fair, what did the Republicans do? They gave no concessions. Then they asked for more to get their Tea Party members on board, and you're telling me it's the Democrat's fault for not voted up an awful bill?[/QUOTE]
Yes, the bill is awful, but think about it. Any bill proposed by the Democrats [B]will not [/b] get through the house, and the Democrats are standing firm against any currently proposed Republican bills. Because this bill was shot down, the US now runs the chance of default if no more bills are proposed in Congress. If the Democrats at least voted for the bill, that would avert the chance of a default and would give more time for the two parties to work together to create a long-term bill.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425624]Yes, the bill is awful, but think about it. Any bill proposed by the Democrats [B]will not [/b] get through the house, and the Democrats are standing firm against any currently proposed Republican bills. Because this bill was shot down, the US now runs the chance of default if no more bills are proposed in Congress. If the Democrats at least voted for the bill, that would avert the chance of a default and would give more time for the two parties to work together to create a long-term bill.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, because letting a terrible, absolutely terrible bill pass is what the US needs, giving into fucking tyrants...
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31425631]Yeah, because letting a terrible, absolutely terrible bill pass is what the US needs, giving into fucking tyrants...[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and whats better than having nothing.
Having something.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425624]Yes, the bill is awful, but think about it. Any bill proposed by the Democrats [B]will not [/b] get through the house, and the Democrats are standing firm against any currently proposed Republican bills. Because this bill was shot down, the US now runs the chance of default if no more bills are proposed in Congress. If the Democrats at least voted for the bill, that would avert the chance of a default and would give more time for the two parties to work together to create a long-term bill.[/QUOTE]
The Democrats knew any of their plans wouldn't pass the House. That's why they negotiated so much and gave so many concessions. After that, the Republicans made their plan more extreme to get their Tea Party Congressmen on board to make it pass the House, and that's why it was turned down. How can you not grasp this?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31425578]The democrats DID concede, THEY DID make concessions. They have done everything they can to be bipartisan and help the country, but no. Had the democrats just "taken a deal" the country would be worse off. Boehners bill doesn't reduce the deficit in ANY shape. It doesn't cut spending AT ALL. Why agree with these demands? Why let tyrants play with the countries economy because they can't man up and fucking compromise like the democrats [B]have, will, and have been for years. [/B] Stop defending turds who aren't looking out for the betterment of anything.[/QUOTE]
Boehner's bill would give Congress more time to work on creating a long-term bill. Because the Democrats blocked this, and as I have said, there is a chance of default if no more bills are proposed.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425598]"compromising and fair" still involves rejecting the other party's plan - just as the republicans are rejecting the democrat's[/QUOTE]
The "Democrat's plan" isn't even a plan of their own design anymore, they crafted it by giving concessions to the Republicans, how hard is it to understand?
[editline]30th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425657]Boehner's bill would give Congress more time to work on creating a long-term bill. Because the Democrats blocked this, and as I have said, there is a chance of default if no more bills are proposed.[/QUOTE]
They blocked it because it [B]doesn't actually do anything.[/B]
Every other post seems to be one saying "why didn't the democrats just concede"
Uhm, they did. So many times. So god damn much.
So is the US fucked now?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31425648]The Democrats knew any of their plans wouldn't pass the House. That's why they negotiated so much and gave so many concessions. After that, the Republicans made their plan more extreme to get their Tea Party Congressmen on board to make it pass the House, and that's why it was turned down. How can you not grasp this?[/QUOTE]
I understand that perfectly. The Republicans are at fault for pushing their agenda too far and not working on a compromise with the Democrats, although Reid's bill was an effective compromise and the Republicans in the house should be supportive of it. It's just that the Democrats just shot down possibly the last chance to avoid a default.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31425623]Dude, are you thick? The democrats plans is littered with concessions for the republicans. Why the fuck can you blame the democrats in this situation? Stupidity? Blindness?[/QUOTE]
both parties have a plan to avoid defaulting
these plans are different
both parties reject the other's plan
how is one party more liable than the other
[QUOTE=Wootman;31425676]So is the US fucked now?[/QUOTE]
I'll continue my daily life as it is. People "hurp" durping that we're all fucked.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425683]both parties have a plan to avoid defaulting
these plans are different
both parties reject the other's plan
how is one party more liable than the other[/QUOTE]
the party that sat there going "lalalalallalalallalalalallalalalala" with their fingers in their ears ISN'T guilty you say?(not actually compromising, or acting like politician, is what I mean by "lalala")
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31425691]the party that sat there going "lalalalallalalallalalalallalalalala" with their fingers in their ears ISN'T guilty you say?(not actually compromising, or acting like politician, is what I mean by "lalala")[/QUOTE]
How is this possible when both parties reject the other's plan.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31425660]They blocked it because it [B]doesn't actually do anything.[/B][/QUOTE]
Boehner's bill raises the debt ceiling. For now, that is all that needs to be done. A bill could be re-negotiated later. Do you not understand that concept? Do you not understand that if no more bills are presented to Congress, that the Democrats pretty much fucked up the United States?
Both parties are liable in this crisis, but it was the Democrats who pretty much had a final say to a solution. They chose not to let it pass. I reckon Boehner's bill is bullshit but it wouldn't have let a default happen in the coming days.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425718]Boehner's bill raises the debt ceiling. For now, that is all that needs to be done. A bill could be re-negotiated later.[/QUOTE]
It really only saddles the problem to be dealt with later so they can pin it on obama and try and drag him from office.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31425691]the party that sat there going "lalalalallalalallalalalallalalalala" with their fingers in their ears ISN'T guilty you say?[/QUOTE]
guilty of being bad negotiators? yeah, sure - not that the republicans ignored democratic attempts on negotiation for no reason at all, anyway. however, this isn't about whether the republicans are bad politicians - this is about whether the republicans could be solely liable for not raising the debt ceiling. the democrats could solve the crisis by accepting the republicans' plan - but they won't.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31425726]It really only saddles the problem to be dealt with later so they can pin it on obama and try and drag him from office.[/QUOTE]
perhaps, but that's not the point - it'll still raise the ceiling.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425683]both parties have a plan to avoid defaulting
these plans are different
both parties reject the other's plan
how is one party more liable than the other[/QUOTE]
That's been explained literally a dozen times in this thread by now, do you seriously not get it?
[QUOTE=Laferio;31425701]How is this possible when both parties reject the other's plan.[/QUOTE]
Because the Democrats changed "their plan" accordingly based on concessions made to make it more appealling to the Republicans. At this point, the "Democrat's plan" is the Republican's old plan. They've conceded all that they possibly can.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425730]guilty of being bad negotiators? yeah, sure - not that the republicans ignored democratic attempts on negotiation for no reason at all, anyway. however, this isn't about whether the republicans are bad politicians - this is about whether the republicans could be solely liable for not raising the debt ceiling. the democrats could solve the crisis by accepting the republicans' plan - but they won't.[/QUOTE]
I really don't get the logic of this... It doesn't seem to be in the best interests to just let people who are being tyrannical be tyrannical.
but hey, it's gotta work, it just sounds so stupid it has to.
You even fucking said so yourself, they're bad at their jobs, but you won't blame them? You'd rather blame people who are being good at their jobs by changing and compromising? do you hear yourself?
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425730]guilty of being bad negotiators? yeah, sure - not that the republicans ignored democratic attempts on negotiation for no reason at all, anyway. however, this isn't about whether the republicans are bad politicians - this is about whether the republicans could be solely liable for not raising the debt ceiling. the democrats could solve the crisis by accepting the republicans' plan - but they won't.[/QUOTE]
No, I guess not in the most basic terms, they aren't [B]solely[/B] liable, but with a little critical analysis, you would realize that they are far more at fault.
I don't believe the Republicans will go through with this. I [I]won't[/I] believe the Republicans will go through with this. The Democrats are going to call the Republican bluff and at the last second they'll give in so they don't destroy this country.
Right, guys?
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425730]guilty of being bad negotiators? yeah, sure - not that the republicans ignored democratic attempts on negotiation for no reason at all, anyway. however, this isn't about whether the republicans are bad politicians - this is about whether the republicans could be solely liable for not raising the debt ceiling. the democrats could solve the crisis by accepting the republicans' plan - but they won't.
perhaps, but that's not the point - it'll still raise the ceiling.[/QUOTE]
Right, pass a bill that doesn't do anything so that they'll have a few more weeks to bitch and moan at each other. That sounds like a perfectly viable solution.
I suggest a railroad unification plan as well as an equality of opportunity plan and am equality of distribution plan.
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