Awww I kinda wanted the apocalypse.
Would have been fun.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31495593]removing the tax cuts will make it way harder for us to come out of our recession
we should be giving more tax cuts, not less[/QUOTE]
Yes, we should be giving more tax cuts but the bush tax cuts and the tax cuts on the rich should not be repealed because those taxes are not negatively affecting them.
Hoping an idealistic market will pop up in the current market just to fix the recession is insane and backwards when never before has any sign of the true ideal capitalistic market existence.
[QUOTE=Communist Cake;31495613]You're right, because the "job creators" have been making SO MANY JOBS since the debut the tax cuts and not just sitting on the money, right?
More tax cuts would be even worse for the economy.[/QUOTE]
i apologize, i dont mean the bush tax cuts in particular
however further tax cuts, especially lower corporate tax, payroll tax, and taxes for exports will do nothing but good for the economy
FUCK I ALREADY TOOK THE PILL
Tax cuts and shit like that are fine but we need to crack down on severe abuse of this shit.
For example, in Colorado, the stock show is moving to Aurora (where I live btw.) It's being moved to a complex built by Gaylord Entertainment, but the thing is... they get all of these nice things because the land it's being built upon is deemed "blighted" (you'd know that's bullshit if you saw it.) I'm not going into details but essentially the city of Aurora assumes all responsibility for the complex and not Gaylord because they are building the complex on blighted land that will be used for "urban expansion."
Not to mention outsourcing headquarters. Let's get around that and reduce taxes for outsourced companies and not removing them entirely. People get around shit that's vital for our government and abuse nice things so much it's not even funny.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;31495860]FUCK I ALREADY TOOK THE PILL[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=329227&dateline=1312061323&ext.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31495704]i apologize, i dont mean the bush tax cuts in particular
however further tax cuts, especially lower corporate tax, payroll tax, and taxes for exports will do nothing but good for the economy[/QUOTE]
Explain how lowering corporate tax rates would help our economy right now.
[QUOTE=Communist Cake;31495613] The government NEEDS the money to pay back the debts. Otherwise, the debt ceiling debate will happen again, and again, and again, ad infinitum.[/QUOTE]
ummm instead of taxing more why not...uh...cut back spending more? especially defense, and a more even cut from most other large government programs.
as we pay the debt the interest payments will decrease and we can return funding to the cut programs
this has the added bonus of stimulating the economy which will also increase revenue over time and in the long term give more funding for programs
Did you guys know that for every tax dollar subtracted from your paycheck, your employer matches that amount in taxes as well?
That means this summer, I've contributed about $2000 to the federal tax reserve.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31496009]Explain how lowering corporate tax rates would help our economy right now.[/QUOTE]
encourages corporate spending
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31496053]encourages corporate spending[/QUOTE]
I think it'd be counteractive to be honest.
Sure, you have more spending but think of the volume of money you don't have coming in from taxes anymore.
Whereas if you raise the rate some 0.5%, it's not a big hit for the corporations but the volume of money is larger.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;31496072]I think it'd be counteractive to be honest.
Sure, you have more spending but think of the volume of money you don't have coming in from taxes anymore.
Whereas if you raise the rate some 0.5%, it's not a big hit for the corporations but the volume of money is larger.[/QUOTE]
yea you can do that 0.5% when it wont be a big hit for corporations
not in a recession
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31496154]yea you can do that 0.5% when it wont be a big hit for corporations
not in a recession[/QUOTE]
So you're saying in a recession it's smarter to cut down on taxes?
[QUOTE=Protocol7;31496236]So you're saying in a recession it's smarter to cut down on taxes?[/QUOTE]
yea, thats an economic consensus
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31496248]yea, thats an economic consensus[/QUOTE]
I don't know, I think that would depend on the severity of the recession, and if we can afford to take the initial hit in tax revenue. Sort of like the hill before the ride down.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;31496296]I don't know, I think that would depend on the severity of the recession, and if we can afford to take the initial hit in tax revenue. Sort of like the hill before the ride down.[/QUOTE]
well this recession is very severe, in fact its a lot worse than we thought it was
also we can take the hit in tax revenue if we cut spending
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31496248]yea, thats an economic consensus[/QUOTE]
Nope, that's a Chicago-school freakout and not a standard economic principle. Lower taxes is [I]one of several[/I] recovery tools, another of which is increased government spending. And you'll find few people who would agree that the tax cuts we've got in the U.S. actually help the economy in any way and aren't Cato fuckwits or otherwise in a corporation's pocket.
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;31496657]Nope, that's a Chicago-school freakout and not a standard economic principle. Lower taxes is [I]one of several[/I] recovery tools, another of which is increased government spending.[/QUOTE]
...
i said increased government spending is a way to help the economy. which is exactly why we cut large government programs to make money for recovery spending
[editline]3rd August 2011[/editline]
and ya it is a consensus
the higher a tax rate is the more it hurts the economy. disagreeing with that shows you dont know anything about economics
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31496688]and ya it is a consensus
the higher a tax rate is the more it hurts the economy. disagreeing with that shows you dont know anything about economics[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://conceptualmath.org/philo/taxgrowth.htm"]I suggest you read something on the subject[/URL] rather than continually talking shit, dumbass.
[QUOTE]In the last 50 years there were 5 tax cuts to the rich. Three of them were followed by a decline in GDP growth, 3 were followed by a decline in employment growth. The evidence suggests that tax cuts do not promote growth and probably promote decline.
In the last 50 years there was just one tax increase to the rich. After that tax increase both the GDP and employment growth rates increased significantly.
The historical evidence suggests that an economic decline will follow a tax cut to the rich, and economic growth may follow a tax increase to the rich. The evidence suggests that the optimum tax marginal tax rate on the rich is higher than 60%.[/QUOTE]
Take a class in econ and actually learn some basic Keynesian principles rather than clinging to the simpleminded fringe shit you're spouting now.
Why don't we all go back to mercantilism?
[QUOTE=Xenocidebot;31496815][URL="http://conceptualmath.org/philo/taxgrowth.htm"]I suggest you read something on the subject[/URL] rather than continually talking shit, dumbass.
Take a class in econ and actually learn some basic Keynesian principles rather than clinging to the simpleminded fringe shit you're spouting now.[/QUOTE]
ahahahahahahahahaha what a pleasantly deceitful source with no real evidence
[editline]3rd August 2011[/editline]
fact: a tax increase of 1% of the gdp lowers the real gdp by 3%
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;31496948]Why don't we all go back to mercantilism?[/QUOTE]
I trade you 7 slaves and a 6pack of beer for that ipad.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;31497103]I trade you 7 slaves and a 6pack of beer for that ipad.[/QUOTE]
Typical apple overpricing.
[QUOTE=Sexy Eskimo;31497103]I trade you 7 slaves and a 6pack of beer for that ipad.[/QUOTE]
Serious? That's a great deal. I could have the slaves fight over the beer and the one who loses has to find a way to get another ipad.
So did it pass? I've been gone all day and when I got back the internet was down for hours on end.
[QUOTE=Mikesword221;31497199]So did it pass? I've been gone all day and when I got back the internet was done for hours on end.[/QUOTE]
Yep.
With a shit outcome. But the crisis us over. For now.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31497027]ahahahahahahahahaha what a pleasantly deceitful source with no real evidence
[editline]3rd August 2011[/editline]
fact: a tax increase of 1% of the gdp lowers the real gdp by 3%[/QUOTE]
For someone who likes to say "no evidence", you're really a mind blower when it comes to how little evidence you give.
what i'm saying is you're a hypocrite.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;31497358]For someone who likes to say "no evidence", you're really a mind blower when it comes to how little evidence you give.
what i'm saying is you're a hypocrite.[/QUOTE]
elsa.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf
page 41
[quote]Our baseline specification suggests that an exogenous tax increase of one percent of GDP
lowers real GDP by roughly three percent.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31497371]elsa.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf
page 41[/QUOTE]
Nope.
[quote][b]Higher income tax rates do not hurt the GDP[/b]
Eliot Spitzer, (54th Governor of New York, writer for Slate), "[I]Debunking the claim that higher income-tax rates reduce GDP.[/I]", [U]Slate[/U], published Tuesday, Feb. 23, 2010, [url]http://www.slate.com/id/2245781/[/url].
That said, [U]it's obvious that there is no correlation between higher marginal tax rates and slowing economic activity.[/U] During the period 1951-63, [U]when marginal rates were at their peak—91 percent or 92 percent—the American economy boomed, growing at an average annual rate of 3.71 percent.[/U] The fact that the marginal rates were what would today be viewed as essentially confiscatory did not cause economic cataclysm—just the opposite. [U]And during the past seven years, during which we reduced the top marginal rate to 35 percent, average growth was a more meager 1.71 percent.[/U]
So where does this leave us? Probably with Weisman's conclusion—that the debate between justice and virtue will continue for years to come. But this debate may be little more than a Rorschach test—an inkblot into which we read our underlying values about income distribution and social welfare. Those who see taxes as the bane of progress will still claim that higher marginal rates are the enemy of economic growth. Those who favor greater progressivity will say there is no evidence of such a claim. They will conclude—and they will be right—that [U]the wealthier can afford to pay more, with no harm to the nation's economic growth.[/U][/quote]
[QUOTE=Communist Cake;31497747]Nope.[/QUOTE]
That particle piece brings up an excellent point. If higher taxes lead to a worse economy, then the 40s/50s should have been our worst time, when income tax at its highest levels was 94%.
[editline]2nd August 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;31497371]elsa.berkeley.edu/~cromer/RomerDraft307.pdf
page 41[/QUOTE]
Doesn't seem to actually put any statistics behind that.
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