[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31425830]1. "tyranny" is debatable
[b]2. it'll solve the crisis - that's the only thing i've ever been arguing[/b]
and yes, you did. you went from claiming I said the democrats' are more at fault, to claiming i said the democrats are equally at fault. there's a marked difference.[/QUOTE]
Except it won't. That's what everyone's been saying.
[QUOTE=Killuah;31425937]What kind of mindset is that? If you go reps way the dept limit rises and more taxes on middle class go higher.
Bushs extra taxes for the rich and wealthy stay in place (that "bait to get more industry into the country" didn't work to well eh?) and more depot is made.
Democrats way is basically Clintoms way who managed to get the first positive budget in like forever.
And if it doesn't work: at least it changes the current program because obviously the current one fails.
And you can't argue that a default and crisis now is better than a much bigger and damaging one later.Because you deal with it NOW not later.[/QUOTE]
Uh, the only reason I'm saying the Democrats should of voted for Boehner's bill is because in the short term it will give the US around 6 months of borrowing, 6 months of time to re-negotiate a bill. Obviously that would be better than a default, which is likely to happen. Also, there is always a chance that if Boehner's bill got through, then there would be a chance to propose an effective long-term bill at later negotiations.
I don't know how many times I have to say this. Boehner's bill absolutely sucks, but it will avert the potential for default, and give more time for more negotiations. Because the Democrats are now starting to submit to the Republicans, this will give more time for the Democrats to create a bill that both parties will support. Reid's bill should of been supported by the Republicans, I don't know why they didn't but they would be able to adjust that bill so the Republicans would accept it, and hopefully be better than Boehner's.
[QUOTE=Croshi;31425945]good thing my family is upper middle class[/QUOTE]
Same.
I've been listening to this stuff all over the news recently. Boehner's plan was [i]rejected[/i] by the repubs at first, he revised it until it was even more batshit insane in what it would and would not accomplish, then they voted yes for it. I knew days ago that it would die immediately in the senate regardless of its passing or not, but seeing all of these idiots rejecting stuff until it's even more a problem is just making me wonder what the hell they're thinking.
The only adult in the room right now- and I have no idea how or why- seems to be McCain. [url=http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/27/mccain-refers-to-tea-party-hobbits-blasts-bachmann-backed-idea/]Did you hear what he had to say the other day?[/url] He bashed both the republicans for being asinine and Obama for "leading from behind", letting people sway his decisions like this.
What does it accomplish, if they use this whole crisis to knock Obama into being the bad guy and the republicans win this tug of war here? As far as I've heard [and I could be wrong but no one's said otherwise while I was listening], there doesn't seem to be a plan yet to recover afterwards. As in McCain's quote in the link above regarding the hobbits, they seem to feel they'll have defeated the bad guy and go home to live happily ever after.
All of their plans for the past 30+ years have been to continue and push the debt back. Spend like a drunken sailor and set a brick on the gas pedal, then whine about the debt when a democrat hits office. If the debt comes back around to a republican president, push it off until it's someone else is in charge again.
You ever play Jenga? The bricks are stacked pretty high and we've got everyone pounding on the table
[QUOTE=Alvaldi;31425923]yeah i remember.
do you think they will eventually default, or will the democrats fold last minute?[/QUOTE]
They've already folded as much as they can afford to. If anything it will be that the Republicans stop asking for more or try to compromise just a little bit.
[editline]30th July 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425988]Uh, the only reason I'm saying the Democrats should of voted for Boehner's bill is because in the short term it will give the US around 6 months of borrowing, 6 months of time to re-negotiate a bill. Obviously that would be better than a default, which is likely to happen. Also, there is always a chance that if Boehner's bill got through, then there would be a chance to propose an effective long-term bill at later negotiations.[/QUOTE]
No, they should not have voted yes on their bill.
[QUOTE=Croshi;31425945]good thing my family is upper middle class[/QUOTE]
I'm a 21 year old living on my own going to a school and working, barely getting by. No family around to boot. Pretty sure I'm fucked if we actually default...
[editline]30th July 2011[/editline]
guess i could do porn
Anyone ready for the money burning parties? Hyperinflation GO GO!
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31425998]No, they should not have voted yes on their bill.[/QUOTE]
And cause a default to happen?
It's too late to change the consensus of the Republicans, they are determined to cause a default so they can say that the Democrats were liable for it, which is why Boehner proposed a bill he knew that the Democrats would not accept. The best thing for the Democrats to do is vote for it, and not be labelled liable for causing a default. It's too late for that now. This whole crisis is a political stunt by the Republicans, but the Democrats have power to avoid causing a default
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31426040]And cause a default to happen?
It's too late to change the consensus of the Republicans, they are determined to cause a default so they can say that the Democrats were liable for it, which is why Boehner proposed a bill he knew that the Democrats would not accept. The best thing for the Democrats to do is vote for it, and not be labelled liable for causing a default.[/QUOTE]
What...
Really dude, really.
[QUOTE=Magistrate;31426043][img]http://www.jordoncooper.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/poar01-stiglitz0811.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
BRB stocking up on a shitton of film and developing supplies.
Actually skip developing supplies, I know how to develop black and white using coffee grounds. Smells like the water at the bottom of a dumpster behind a truckstop, but works and is cheap.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31426040]And cause a default to happen?
It's too late to change the consensus of the Republicans, they are determined to cause a default so they can say that the Democrats were liable for it, which is why Boehner proposed a bill he knew that the Democrats would not accept. The best thing for the Democrats to do is vote for it, and not be labelled liable for causing a default. It's too late for that now. This whole crisis is a political stunt by the Republicans, but the Democrats have power to avoid causing a default[/QUOTE]
Pass a horrible bill so that they can avoid being blamed for not passing said horrible bill?
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;31426023]I'm a 21 year old living on my own going to a school and working, barely getting by. No family around to boot. Pretty sure I'm fucked if we actually default...
[editline]30th July 2011[/editline]
guess i could do porn[/QUOTE]
I don't think there'd be a huge porn industry post depression. But hey at least you have your health and your youth, there'd be a good chance you'd outlive the bad times.
If the country does go down the shitter and we're worse off than we were in the 30s I can at least take solace in knowing I got to grow up in the 90s, and up until now it's all been pretty good.
Any person with a brain should go out and buy themselves some gold right now.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;31426061]Pass a horrible bill so that they can avoid being blamed for not passing said horrible bill?[/QUOTE]
You really do sound like you want a default to happen. It is a horrible bill, but because the Republicans are so fucking stubborn, there is nothing else the Democrats can do. Because of how fucking stubborn the Republicans are, the Democrats cannot possibly present any bills that could get through the house and into the senate.
I want to make this clear: The Republicans are being cunts for holding not only the US economy, but also the world economy hostage. They are letting this crisis happen as a political stunt, they don't give a fuck about the economy, they just want to say the Democrats were at fault for not voting on their bill to "save the economy" so they can get in at the 2012 elections (government will still live on past a default of course). It's just a stupid political stunt, but the Democrats can at least stop it.
[QUOTE=SwissArmyKnife;31426063]I don't think there'd be a huge porn industry post depression. But hey at least you have your health and your youth, there'd be a good chance you'd outlive the bad times.
If the country does go down the shitter and we're worse off than we were in the 30s I can at least take solace in knowing I got to grow up in the 90s, and up until now it's all been pretty good.[/QUOTE]
True that. However I think porn would still be pretty profitable, nothing to do when you're miserable and broke except masturbate.
[QUOTE=Kanra;31426067]Any person with a brain should go out and buy themselves some gold right now.[/QUOTE]
Or stock up on non perishable food while it's not incredibly overpriced.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31426084]You really do sound like you want a default to happen. It is a horrible bill, but because the Republicans are so fucking stubborn, there is nothing else the Democrats can do. Because of how fucking stubborn the Republicans are, the Democrats cannot possibly present any bills that could get through the house and into the senate.[/QUOTE]
It's akin to giving into crying babies. Or even worse hostage takers. Is that the best way to fix this problem?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425988]Uh, the only reason I'm saying the Democrats should of voted for Boehner's bill is because in the short term it will give the US around 6 months of borrowing, 6 months of time to re-negotiate a bill. Obviously that would be better than a default, which is likely to happen. Also, there is always a chance that if Boehner's bill got through, then there would be a chance to propose an effective long-term bill at later negotiations.
I don't know how many times I have to say this. Boehner's bill absolutely sucks, but it will avert the potential for default, and give more time for more negotiations. Because the Democrats are now starting to submit to the Republicans, this will give more time for the Democrats to create a bill that both parties will support. Reid's bill should of been supported by the Republicans, I don't know why they didn't but they would be able to adjust that bill so the Republicans would accept it, and hopefully be better than Boehner's.[/QUOTE]
Should have
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31426084]You really do sound like you want a default to happen. It is a horrible bill, but because the Republicans are so fucking stubborn, there is nothing else the Democrats can do. Because of how fucking stubborn the Republicans are, the Democrats cannot possibly present any bills that could get through the house and into the senate.[/QUOTE]
That is true, but that doesn't mean to can place blame on the Democrats for it.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31426084]You really do sound like you want a default to happen. It is a horrible bill, but because the Republicans are so fucking stubborn, there is nothing else the Democrats can do. Because of how fucking stubborn the Republicans are, the Democrats cannot possibly present any bills that could get through the house and into the senate.
I want to make this clear: The Republicans are being cunts for holding not only the US economy, but also the world economy hostage. They are letting this crisis happen as a political stunt, they don't give a fuck about the economy, they just want to say the Democrats were at fault for not voting on their bill to "save the economy" so they can get in at the 2012 elections (government will still live on past a default of course). It's just a stupid political stunt, but the Democrats can at least stop it.[/QUOTE]
No, we won't negotiate with terrorists.
So what happens with the US if it defaults? Will it cause the stocks to go up? Will it destroy the economy even more? My parents lost a huuuge amount of money due to this.
Just like they are still making sure Obama doesn't default, this probably won't work for them either.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;31426136]So what happens with the US if it defaults? Will it cause the stocks to go up? Will it destroy the economy even more? My parents lost a huuuge amount of money due to this.[/QUOTE]
Everyone will be poor till' the end of it, meaning Internet gone for a long while, no school, and shit loads of boredom.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;31426087]It's akin to giving into crying babies. Or even worse hostage takers. Is that the best way to fix this problem?[/QUOTE]
Does not giving into the hostage takers, who could possibly kill their hostages if their demands aren't meant the way to fix the problem?
I don't want them to give in to the borderline insane republicans.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31426147]Does not giving into the hostage takers, who could possibly kill their hostages if their demands aren't meant the way to fix the problem?[/QUOTE]
I think in both these situations it's best to call for a swat team and get some headshots in.
Also giving in to them doesn't work because the samesituation will happen again next time the dept ceiling is reached.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;31426167]I think in both these situations it's best to call for a swat team and get some headshots in.[/QUOTE]
Lol reminds me of CSS except with People who don't plant the bombs
Wouldn't that be like, a auto resignation to the dude in charge of any operations that would involve that?
My family is barely living off unemployment and we have a shitload of debt. We're fucked aren't we?
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;31426167]I think in both these situations it's best to call for a swat team and get some headshots in.[/QUOTE]
Both situations? Really?
The US is founded on many principles, including being a Representative Democracy. That is, representatives are voted in by the people. What you're suggesting is approaching totalitarianism. Why should the white house have any authority to eliminate representatives elected by the people? I don't agree with the Republicans on many things, but that doesn't mean they should be killed because of it.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;31425624]Yes, the bill is awful, but think about it. Any bill proposed by the Democrats [B]will not [/b] get through the house, and the Democrats are standing firm against any currently proposed Republican bills. Because this bill was shot down, the US now runs the chance of default if no more bills are proposed in Congress. If the Democrats at least voted for the bill, that would avert the chance of a default and would give more time for the two parties to work together to create a long-term bill.[/QUOTE]
Shouldn't there be SOME way for the President to do SOMETHING if Congress is in a deadlock??
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.