• Australia is planning to resettle asylum seekers in Cambodia
    58 replies, posted
Deterring asylum seeks is actually a good thing, half of you people are too busy jumping at the government to realize that the previous government's solution lead to people risking their lives and dying on the way to Australia. The less people trying to travel across extremely dangerous seas on small overloaded fishing boats the better. [QUOTE=The Aussie;44516183]I'm sorry, don't put words in my fucking mouth. Did i say that we should give them handouts? No, i said that we shouldn't send them to a fucking third world country that is the poorest country in south east asia, with it's own existing huge fucking problems with everything from corruption to fucking [b]landmines[/b]. This is not good for refugees (Dumping people who speak a different language in a totally different culture with little to no government support is just going to be great right?) or the Cambodian government. This is so fucking backwards, barbaric, xenophobic and i fucking [b]hate[/b] that little shit stain Tony Abbott. He is Australia's Rick Santorum, and he got elected.[/QUOTE] thanks bro those bold words got the message across Also, Cambodia is benefiting from aid payments because of this. Did you also know Cambodia is one of the fastest growing economies in south-east asia, it has had a tremendous recovery since the 1990's. You would also be naive and utterly idiotic to think they would dump a foreigner there with no support at all, that is just merely jumping to an ill-thought conclusion. Cambodia is also signatory of the International Refugee Convention, which gives those refugees rights. To work, and fit into their society, and gain if they will, a legal and safe entry to Australia.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44515784]Also. Cambodia is a signatory so couldn't you argue that they're doing their duty under the convention? [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Refugeeconvention.PNG[/t] Food for thought. Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy and middle class and is recovering at a really high economic rate.[/QUOTE] Now it's put that way, Cambodia might not be the worst place for them to be. Even if Oz is more "Western" and probably has a higher overall tech-level in comparison to Cambodia, it's mostly desert and eldritch abominations over there, whilst Cambodia is presumably a damn sight greener and has fewer elementals of living poison every square mile.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44515723] Also, Cambodia could totally use new population after their dictator completely killed off over 30 percent of the population. [/QUOTE] Cambodia has a myriad of problems, but lack of people is not one of them.
[QUOTE=Tasm;44516727]Deterring asylum seeks is actually a good thing, half of you people are too busy jumping at the government to realize that the previous government's solution lead to people risking their lives and dying on the way to Australia. The less people trying to travel across extremely dangerous seas on small overloaded fishing boats the better.[/QUOTE] Do you really think that this will stop people doing that? It might even make things worse, as people try even more desperate measures to avoid being caught and sent to a detention centre or deported to a different country? Maybe even try to travel from Cambodia back to Australia for another go? People are still going to try and travel to Australia by boat - just deporting them by boat is literally just sweeping the issue under the rug.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44515907]I'm not even exaggerating. If you want to help out, literally sponsor a refugee. They can stay if a citizen sponsors them. Do your part. [URL]http://www.immi.gov.au/about/contracts-tenders-submissions/humanitarian-program.htm[/URL][/QUOTE] Actually doing this is far harder than you make it out to be, an individual doing it would be an immense amount of work and also the upfront cost of 30k for the visa application. [quote] Applicants who have been unsuccessful under the pilot may apply for humanitarian entry under Australia’s normal humanitarian program. However, no associated fees will be refunded.[/quote] Also [quote]"[B][I]As of the 14 February 2014, the number of visa applications being considered under the Community Pilot Project (CPP) is likely to reach the maximum number of available places. At this stage no new applications are being considered. In the coming months as applications are assessed, opportunities to take on new applications may become available. If you would like to be placed on a waiting list, we encourage you to complete an expression of interest form and an APO will contact you if any opportunity becomes available."[/I][/B][/quote] The work: [quote]This includes meeting them at an Australian airport, providing necessary clothing and footwear, accommodation, basic household goods and food. Organisations and individuals will be required to refer families with children to a school. They will also need to refer new arrivals to Medicare, Centrelink , a bank, and English language training. Other settlement support services include: registering arrivals for a general health assessment; helping find a job and permanent accommodation; connecting them with community and government programs; providing orientation in their local communities and educating families about the rights and responsibilities of newly arrived permanent residents – such as residential and tenancy obligations.”[/quote] The only thing I can find to actually do is donate to the 5 or so organizations that are approved to do this, and then your donation isn't exactly just for this. All the application spots have also been filled already, this isn't a fix for even a small amount of people. Vinnies have already said they won't be able to do it because it costs too much.
This is why I hate Australia "durr durr durr g'day mate cowboy hats and didgeridoos oim a fooqin dumbass and talk stupid" Cambodia is okay though, for now...
Only thing I know about Cambodia is that one song.
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;44523780]Only thing I know about Cambodia is that one song.[/QUOTE] lol cause you're dumb
[QUOTE=JimblesNeutrn;44523741]This is why I hate Australia "durr durr durr g'day mate cowboy hats and didgeridoos oim a fooqin dumbass and talk stupid" Cambodia is okay though, for now...[/QUOTE] ironically most of that has died out with people moving from countries that don't speak a word of English and creating ghettos with large amount of crime.
[QUOTE=Dark One;44523885]ironically most of that has died out with people moving from countries that don't speak a word of English and creating ghettos with large amount of crime.[/QUOTE] lol whatever you say hitler
[QUOTE=Dark One;44523885]ironically most of that has died out with people moving from countries that don't speak a word of English and creating ghettos with large amount of crime.[/QUOTE] Do you have any evidence for this or is it just speculation? Somewhat related, I do wonder what happened to our idea of a 'fair shake of the sauce bottle'
"For those who’ve come across the seas, We’ve boundless plains to share."
[QUOTE=JimblesNeutrn;44523905]lol whatever you say hitler[/QUOTE] oh, well in that case i won the second world war.. :v: [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44524057]Do you have any evidence for this or is it just speculation? Somewhat related, I do wonder what happened to our idea of a 'fair shake of the sauce bottle'[/QUOTE] the only evidence i have is the area that i live in, very different from other areas.. interesting enough if you go into the country you'll find a lot of Aussies.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;44520413]Do you really think that this will stop people doing that? It might even make things worse, as people try even more desperate measures to avoid being caught and sent to a detention centre or deported to a different country? Maybe even try to travel from Cambodia back to Australia for another go? People are still going to try and travel to Australia by boat - just deporting them by boat is literally just sweeping the issue under the rug.[/QUOTE] The actual figures on boat arrivals seem to speak otherwise. Less people are ready to take the risk if they know they'll be put in detention or relocated.
[QUOTE=Dark One;44524383]the only evidence i have is the area that i live in, very different from other areas.. interesting enough if you go into the country you'll find a lot of Aussies.[/QUOTE] Anecdotal evidence isn't proper evidence. I have anecdotal evidence myself regarding immigrants who can't speak English, after having worked at the Steggles plant in Beresfield, and from that experience I can say that they are very hard working and deserving of the utmost respect. And in Beresfield, where most of the immigrants who work at the plant live, most of the crime comes from lads and racist white trash rather than the immigrants themselves. But that isn't even proper evidence, and I'm not going to claim it as fact as you imply your anecdotal evidence to be. [editline]12th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Azza;44524869]The actual figures on boat arrivals seem to speak otherwise. Less people are ready to take the risk if they know they'll be put in detention or relocated.[/QUOTE] The figures on boat arrivals tell us that the government is actively trying everything they can to stop boats from being registered as arrivals, through means such as literally towing boats away from Australian waters.
[QUOTE=usaokay;44523752]Been to Cambodia several times. The weather sucks.[/QUOTE] That's what they get for being too damn close to the equator
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44515717][url]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/11/australia-in-early-discussions-with-cambodia-on-refugee-transfer[/url] Turns out the government just isn't content with keeping asylum-seekers in indefinite detention, they want to ship them out to various third world countries so they don't have to worry about their welfare. Despicable.[/QUOTE] Why should they care about their welfare? They are illegal immigrants and "aslyum" seekers who are bypassing safe countries to come to a 1st world country. [editline]12th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44515826]They sought asylum in Australia, who happen to be obligated in some way to receive them and give them asylum. Cambodia doesn't factor into this, regardless of their status.[/QUOTE] Well said Lonestriper, so let's put 5 Aslyum seekers in your house.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44515879]UK announces all prisoners will be shipped to Australia[/QUOTE] I want to give a funny rating to the late rating.
[QUOTE=The Aussie;44516183]I'm sorry, don't put words in my fucking mouth. Did i say that we should give them handouts? No, i said that we shouldn't send them to a fucking third world country that is the poorest country in south east asia, with it's own existing huge fucking problems with everything from corruption to fucking [b]landmines[/b]. This is not good for refugees (Dumping people who speak a different language in a totally different culture with little to no government support is just going to be great right?) or the Cambodian government. This is so fucking backwards, barbaric, xenophobic and i fucking [b]hate[/b] that little shit stain Tony Abbott. He is Australia's Rick Santorum, and he got elected.[/QUOTE] Wait, so you want them to come to a 1st world country, which has an even more different culture and language? You expect them to fit in? High unemployment already in Australia and much of the world and these no doubt unskilled asylum seekers are supposed to find work in that climate? Every asylum seeker that touches down costs the government money.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;44515723]Australia has no obligation to them. They didn't ask for people to go to their shores. [editline]11th April 2014[/editline] Also, Cambodia could totally use new population after their dictator completely killed off over 30 percent of the population. Lol. Do you even read the shit you post about?[/QUOTE] Rich countries have an obligation to help the less fortunate. It's a part of being human. We help each other out. It is our duty to try to make life better for those not born into luxury. [editline]12th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44526248]Well said Lonestriper, so let's put 5 Aslyum seekers in your house.[/QUOTE] Nobody's putting asylum seekers in your house either (or anybody's for that matter) so what is this post even supposed to mean?
[QUOTE=blehblehbleh;44526339]Rich countries have an obligation to help the less fortunate. [/QUOTE] your right, there are plenty of homeless people in Australia that need our attention not the greater world. as for example Perth is having a boom of homeless youth.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44526319]Wait, so you want them to come to a 1st world country, which has an even more different culture and language? You expect them to fit in? High unemployment already in Australia and much of the world and these no doubt unskilled asylum seekers are supposed to find work in that climate? Every asylum seeker that touches down costs the government money.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that an asylum seeker coming from the Middle East would have as much difficulty in settling in Cambodia as he or she would with settling in Australia. Believe it or not, poorer countries (I don't like using the term third world) don't have a common language or culture (woah who would have thought!?). Immigrants don't have problems finding work because they do the jobs that white people don't want to do. Factory process workers, cleaners and janitors etc. At the Steggles plant where I worked last year, easily 75% of the work force was non-white. That isn't because they hire immigrants cheaper though; immigrants got the same $25/hour and if they only employed immigrants they wouldn't have employed me. But yeah, anecdotal evidence and all.
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;44526248]Why should they care about their welfare? They are illegal immigrants and "aslyum" seekers who are bypassing safe countries to come to a 1st world country.[/QUOTE] I hate to break it to you, if you can't make at least one case for ensuring the welfare of these people then you are an utterly broken person. Seeking asylum is not illegal, nor is Australia necessarily the first choice of these people. I mean, Europe takes on a staggering amount of refugees compared to Australia, and they manage to do it without making every excuse possible to exclude them (or to put them in concentration camps). We're imposing the worst form of soft-xenophobia on these people, reducing their plight by claiming they aren't making the journey out of necessity but economic want. Saying shit like resettlement shouldn't be a ticket to a first-class economy is reducing prosperity to an exclusive club of countries and peoples on the basis of endless excuses obfuscating the fact that they genuinely dislike these people but aren't game enough to come out an say it. I'm sure if I brought up Umberto Eco's essay [I]Ur-fascism[/I] I could tick off enough boxes to damn these idiots as brownshirts in waiting. [quote]Well said Lonestriper, so let's put 5 Aslyum seekers in your house.[/quote] Moreover, shit like this is rhetoric devoid of any genuine thought. As much as I can help these people I will try, but I do not necessarily have all the means to do so. The Government, as a super-entity, does, yet they are unconcerned with actually doing so. Who's at fault here? [editline]13th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Dark One;44526656]your right, there are plenty of homeless people in Australia that need our attention not the greater world. as for example Perth is having a boom of homeless youth.[/QUOTE] The Government is more than well equipped to deal with a whole host of issues, international and national. Its an issue of will, not means.
So what do you propose we do lonestriper? Encourage these people to gather their familys, put them into dangerous boats that don't scratch seaworthy and make a voyage to enter our country through illegal means? Are you going to keep them here in the isolated Darwin region where the vast majority of work is skilled labour in the mines or rigs? Or spend money transferring them to the cities and towns down south where it's already a rat race. Housing is fucked in one way or another throughout the whole country. Do you realise that by allowing people to enter so easily through unofficial means we would effectively be encouraging more to do so, and that could very quickly create an unsustainable immigration flow? Also, if this is how many people attempt when we're strict, how many would come if we adopted a relaxed policy. Also, I've been to berrimah detention center, i know people who've worked for serco on Christmas island, and you calling them concentration camps is a complete distortion of the truth and an insult to the people who work very hard there. I'm all for accepting immigrants into our country, but it needs to be done in a controlled way so that it will not adversely affect our economy in the long term, so the cultures in question melt into our society in a desirable way, instead of being segregated or segregating themselves, and so we avoid questionable cultural imports, the best example off the top of my head being sharia law.
[QUOTE=WisdomChief;44532938]So what do you propose we do lonestriper? Encourage these people to gather their familys, put them into dangerous boats that don't scratch seaworthy and make a voyage to enter our country through illegal means? Are you going to keep them here in the isolated Darwin region where the vast majority of work is skilled labour in the mines or rigs? Or spend money transferring them to the cities and towns down south where it's already a rat race. Housing is fucked in one way or another throughout the whole country. Do you realise that by allowing people to enter so easily through unofficial means we would effectively be encouraging more to do so, and that could very quickly create an unsustainable immigration flow? Also, if this is how many people attempt when we're strict, how many would come if we adopted a relaxed policy. Also, I've been to berrimah detention center, i know people who've worked for serco on Christmas island, and you calling them concentration camps is a complete distortion of the truth and an insult to the people who work very hard there. I'm all for accepting immigrants into our country, but it needs to be done in a controlled way so that it will not adversely affect our economy in the long term, so the cultures in question melt into our society in a desirable way, instead of being segregated or segregating themselves, and so we avoid questionable cultural imports, the best example off the top of my head being sharia law.[/QUOTE] This. People underestimate the consequences of mass migration.
[QUOTE=WisdomChief;44532938]So what do you propose we do lonestriper? Encourage these people to gather their familys, put them into dangerous boats that don't scratch seaworthy and make a voyage to enter our country through illegal means?[/quote] First and foremost, people seeking asylum arriving via boat are in no way breaking the law, under the UNHCR agreement it is legal for refugees to seek asylum in a country regardless of the mode of transportation. Calling boat arrivals 'illegal' is misinformation which has the ugly consequence of demonising these people. The moment people stop calling them illegal immigrants is the moment we can address the issue without resorting to falsehoods. Secondly, there is the issue of policy in regards to the areas which promote travel via these means. The 'people smuggler' model works in the absence, or lack, of appropriate, officially sanctioned methods of seeking asylum (which we would know as refugee camps with the 'line' to get in) Indonesia is an unfortunate dead spot for this. They don't recognise asylum under the UNHCR convention, and spend a lot of their time dealing with the arrival of people on their way to Australia. Expanding the process here would mean less boat arrivals, plain and simple. Secondly, the policy to destroy all vessels used to arrive in Australia actively promotes the use of unseaworthy vessels. [quote]Are you going to keep them here in the isolated Darwin region where the vast majority of work is skilled labour in the mines or rigs? Or spend money transferring them to the cities and towns down south where it's already a rat race. Housing is fucked in one way or another throughout the whole country.[/quote] Rather than the current policy of detaining people outside of the Australian mainland, an actual effort could be made to integrate them. It's perfectly feasible for an asylum seeker, post security check, to be released (under watch!) into the community to not only gain employment, but begin the process of assimilation. Locking them up is only breeding mental illness and resent, not to mention violating various provisions on the convention we signed. These people aren't necessarily unskilled because they came from a war-torn country, what they know can easily be used to sure up the labour pool. [quote]Do you realise that by allowing people to enter so easily through unofficial means we would effectively be encouraging more to do so, and that could very quickly create an unsustainable immigration flow? Also, if this is how many people attempt when we're strict, how many would come if we adopted a relaxed policy. [/quote] The amount of refugees arriving under the supposedly 'relaxed' Gillard/Rudd government was completely dwarfed by much of the rest of the developed world. We are not at risk of being swamped with an unsustainable amount of refugees. [quote]Also, I've been to berrimah detention center, i know people who've worked for serco on Christmas island, and you calling them concentration camps is a complete distortion of the truth and an insult to the people who work very hard there.[/quote] I'll concede concentration camps is a rhetorical tool, but the point still stands that keeping refugees in such camps is an blemish on our humanitarian record. Not to mention it's an grossly absurd waste of money. [quote]I'm all for accepting immigrants into our country, but it needs to be done in a controlled way so that it will not adversely affect our economy in the long term, so the cultures in question melt into our society in a desirable way, instead of being segregated or segregating themselves, and so we avoid questionable cultural imports, the best example off the top of my head being sharia law.[/QUOTE] It already is heavily controlled with staggering amounts of security oversight. The threat of sharia law is a baseless xenophobic fantasy.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44533721]First and foremost, people seeking asylum arriving via boat are in no way breaking the law, under the UNHCR agreement it is legal for refugees to seek asylum in a country regardless of the mode of transportation. Calling boat arrivals 'illegal' is misinformation which has the ugly consequence of demonising these people. The moment people stop calling them illegal immigrants is the moment we can address the issue without resorting to falsehoods.[/QUOTE] You're right, that is a massive falsehood and i apologies, but whether they're actually illegal or not isn't the issue to me, it's about controlling immigration in a way that will provide the best outcome for the future of this country. [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44533721]Secondly, there is the issue of policy in regards to the areas which promote travel via these means. The 'people smuggler' model works in the absence, or lack, of appropriate, officially sanctioned methods of seeking asylum (which we would know as refugee camps with the 'line' to get in) Indonesia is an unfortunate dead spot for this. They don't recognise asylum under the UNHCR convention, and spend a lot of their time dealing with the arrival of people on their way to Australia. Expanding the process here would mean less boat arrivals, plain and simple. Secondly, the policy to destroy all vessels used to arrive in Australia actively promotes the use of unseaworthy vessels.[/QUOTE] I'm all for opening up a center in Indonesia so people could apply for refugee status, so long as our high standards are maintained. One of the things that makes this such a clusterfuck is that many of these people have no I.D or way to prove they are who they say they are, no way to prove that they're actually fleeing from a country where they will be persecuted if they return or is otherwise in a dramatic political/social crisis, and that contributes greatly to the detention period they have to undergo if they come to Australia with no visa and claim refugee status. These security checks can take months even when they are legitimate refugees. Many who come here by boat to seek refugee status end up getting deported because they're determined to not actually be refugees, just immigrants. This is also part of my counter-argument to your next paragraph: [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44533721]Rather than the current policy of detaining people outside of the Australian mainland, an actual effort could be made to integrate them. It's perfectly feasible for an asylum seeker, post security check, to be released (under watch!) into the community to not only gain employment, but begin the process of assimilation. Locking them up is only breeding mental illness and resent, not to mention violating various provisions on the convention we signed. These people aren't necessarily unskilled because they came from a war-torn country, what they know can easily be used to sure up the labour pool.[/QUOTE] If they want to become part of our workforce then they either have to have a recognized qualification or one of our own, which could mean a stint at uni or an apprenticeship. This is a good thing as it helps to ensure things like buildings always being built to code and high standards in our medical industry. Who will pay for the majority of these people without recognized qualifications while they study? Where will they live? [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44533721]The amount of refugees arriving under the supposedly 'relaxed' Gillard/Rudd government was completely dwarfed by much of the rest of the developed world. We are not at risk of being swamped with an unsustainable amount of refugees.[/QUOTE] Just because it pales in comparison to the rest of the developed world doesn't mean it still wouldn't have a major effect on us. For the size of our island we're a very small populace who are already facing a huge housing shortage, and even a few thousand more residents is a lot of strain we don't need. Also, I still wouldn't call the Gillard/Rudd policies 'relaxed'. [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44533721]I'll concede concentration camps is a rhetorical tool, but the point still stands that keeping refugees in such camps is an blemish on our humanitarian record. Not to mention it's an grossly absurd waste of money.[/QUOTE] How? These people have chosen to come here, we are housing them, clothing them and feeding them for free while we figure out if they are who they say they are. It's not the hilton, it's serco, but it's definitely not inhumane either. I can tell you first hand that these people are well cared for, and all the serco workers i know/knew who worked there are some of the most compassionate caring people I've met. [QUOTE=Lonestriper;44533721]It already is heavily controlled with staggering amounts of security oversight. The threat of sharia law is a baseless xenophobic fantasy.[/QUOTE] And it should stay that way, we let people trickle in slowly instead of encouraging mass immigration. You don't seem to be taking into account that not everyone aboard these vessels has good intentions, and that not everybody aboard them is actually a refugee by the definition. You also don't seem to understand that the easier we make coming here as a refugee (or not), the more people will try and bend that system to gain entry. And that does leave us prone to an unsustainable flow of people entering the country. We should definitely make sure too many people aren't allowed in at once because it's more than possible to grow too fast. I won't go into sharia law with you, just know it was only one example. To list off a few others, mexican gang culture, the rape acceptance that occurs in much of Africa, and islamic resentment towards Judaism and vice versa are things we should be wary of.
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