[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;22077557]Texas is now dead to me.[/QUOTE]
It took you this long?
[editline]04:56PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=mastermaul;22078155]First one should be taught, second two should both be taught instead of one in favor of the other.
Everything else is damned stupid.[/QUOTE]
This is not the 1700's anymore. It's useless to teach that
[editline]05:11PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gordy H.;22079041]The Internet. It was made as a means to launch missiles/deliver orders to every base in the U.S. simultaneously.[/QUOTE]
actually it was a secondary communication device in case main communications were down.
[QUOTE]"The only accurate method of ascertaining the intent of the founding fathers at the time of our government's inception comes from a biblical worldview," she wrote.[/QUOTE]
Any idiot with half a brain and knowledge of the constitution knows that the INTENT of the Founding Fathers is IRRELEVANT to what is written into law. You can make arguments to what every the intended, but it's all moot because the law is LAW, not intent.
[QUOTE=bravehat;22081111]They're just showing how military technology and the like has advanced humanity.
If it wasn't for the military constantly needing to kill each other and patch themselves up in more and more fantastic ways, we would still be in the dark ages.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't aware the scientific revolution was that violent.
Aw crud, I live right next to Texas. They better not pass this to us. Texas gives the rest of us in the South bad rep.
We should give Texas back to the Mexicans IMO
Wow, it's good to see even some foreign papers are picking up on this. The revisions occurring here in Texas are downright ridiculous. I first mentioned this back when it was still in its first stages
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=881100[/url]
It's a sad mess. Even more so when you consider many Texans are unaware of what is happening, but even then I fear that many of my fellow Texans probably wouldn't be phased by the sheer lunacy of these changes.
To make matters worse today is the day of the vote where they will approve of most of the changes, if not all of them.
Another kicker is that the State Board of Education's members are all popularly elected.
This may or may not affect the rest of the country. Texas orders a lot of textbooks so many times even revisions in other states are ones that the Texas SBOE approved of.
The Guardian Article mentions Cynthia Dunbar, which is one SBOE members who are pushing for these things. Today (and again, May 21st is the day of the vote) Cynthia Dunbar opened with a prayer.
Besides the fact that this is a government function and religion should not be interjected in that manner (prayer), note some of the things she says,
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdhGK9aYjDY[/media]
-“I believe no one can read the history of our country without realizing that the Good Book and the spirit of the savior have from the beginning been our guiding geniuses.” (0:35-0:47)
-“Whether we look to the first charter of Virginia, or the charter of New England…the same objective is present — a Christian land governed by Christian principles.” (0:48-1:08)
-From there until 1:35 she goes into her warped interpretation of the Bill of Rights
-“I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country.” (1:35-1:48)
I wonder if it's possible to kick a state out of the Union or if a Civil War or something of the sort would have to happen
[editline]07:09PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=MercZ;22084772]
-“I like to believe we are living today in the spirit of the Christian religion. I like also to believe that as long as we do so, no great harm can come to our country.” (1:35-1:48)[/QUOTE]
So where was God on 9/11 you fuck?
(Not you MercZ, the bitch in the video)
[editline]07:11PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Funky Pickle;22084261]Aw crud, I live right next to Texas. They better not pass this to us. Texas gives the rest of us in the South bad rep.[/QUOTE]
Most of the Southern states take care of that on their own
Can't the government do something about this?
Surely there has got to be [I]something[/I] they can do to block this. There is no way a bunch of religious conservatives can just warp history like this. Separation of Church and State must mean [I]something[/I].
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;22085097]Can't the government do something about this?
Surely there has got to be [I]something[/I] they can do to block this. There is no way a bunch of religious conservatives can just warp history like this. Separation of Church and State must mean [I]something[/I].[/QUOTE]
Not when the government is seemingly run by the Church
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;22085097]Can't the government do something about this?
Surely there has got to be [I]something[/I] they can do to block this. There is no way a bunch of religious conservatives can just warp history like this. Separation of Church and State must mean [I]something[/I].[/QUOTE]
Then it gets into a sticky issue of states' rights. With the amount of anti-Washington sentiment rampant right now, the federal government calling Texas out for this would just play right into the tea bagger playbook, especially since they are supporting most of these to begin with.
Additionally most educational policy is done on a state by state basis. While there is a federal Department of Education, its overall effect and power is quite negligible and ultimately states have more sway over what they teach.
[QUOTE=delta_43;22080983]In 2008, Texas had a gross state product of 1.3 trillion dollars, the second highest in the US. It leads the nation's live stock production, the cotton industry, goat and sheep products, and the creation of cement, crushed stone, lime, salt, sand and gravel. Their petroleum deposits makes up a fourth of our known reserves. It leads in natural gas production, wind power, and solar power. It is the headquarters of Dell, AT&T, and Perot Systems. NASA JSC is the crown jewel of their aeronautics industry, and they produce the F-16 and F-35, the country's largest fighter programs. They have more than a thousand seaports and the most airports in the country. The Texas Medical Center in Houston has the world's largest concentration of medical research and centres around cancer care, research, education and prevention. South Texas Medical Centre in Houston is sixth in clinical research.
The Union is not going to reject them just because of their education plan, and just because the state decided on this incredibly stupid idea does not make every last human who lives there a stupid, religious redneck.
Yes, throwing Newton out of the textbooks was a horrifically stupid idea, but the state has too much worth to simply be tossed away like a used napkin.[/QUOTE]
The only problem is, if these changes come to pass, and Texas rewrites history, the following generations being taught this shit [I]are [/I]going to be stupid religious rednecks. They won't know how to live any other way.
John Stewart's theory about a totalitarian theocracy is coming true :Dawkins102:
Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space!!!! if you drop him, a mass driver will pound texas into a texas sized lake!!!!!
Black Power!
I swear I'm moving out of this state if this goes through.
American exceptionalism completely goes against unbiased and logical teaching. You know, [B]the main thing schools are supposed to provide[/B]?
Wish idiots like this woman would realize education wasn't meant to scream AMURICA FUCK YEAH at every turn, but to inform people.
I live in The Woodlands.
God I fucking hate my state so much. Seriously everyone here is a conservative fuckbag, not even Louisiana was this bad and I went to a Catholic school there.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22083134]Darn tootin'! This here thread done gone and be offensive to mah sensibilities! Mildrid get the 12 gauge. It be sittin' thar behind the terlet so make sure little timmy ain't playin' with it again[/QUOTE]
Oh, why don't you just go back to your igloo and hunt some moose with your pet beaver, Canadian. Eh.
[QUOTE=Funky Pickle;22088562]Oh, why don't you just go back to your igloo and hunt some moose with your pet beaver, Canadian. Eh.[/QUOTE]
Canadas education system is much better than the american system. Even in our igloos.
do you guys realize that most texans don't support this
we're actually being kept in the dark about this change, the only reason I even know it's coming about is facepunch
[editline]09:50PM[/editline]
not even the religious zealots I know are in favor of this after I told them about it
[QUOTE=IdiotStorm;22084619]We should give Texas back to the Mexicans IMO[/QUOTE]
Go right ahead, once I've graduated I'm moving to fucking Canada
The TEA is a bunch of white elitist Christian women, they can all go fuck themselves
[QUOTE=Funky Pickle;22088562]Oh, why don't you just go back to your igloo and hunt some moose with your pet beaver, Canadian. Eh.[/QUOTE]
Pet moose :colbert:
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22088997]Pet moose :colbert:[/QUOTE]
I KNEW IT! But beavers are so cute. :3:
Fuck. I'm Texan.
[QUOTE=Funky Pickle;22089052]I KNEW IT! But beavers are so cute. :3:[/QUOTE]
we also have ravens that we send out ahead to scout the area
Can't wait to move to Utah.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Fenriswolf;22089169]Guys, this isn't happening in all of Texas. I live in Texas, none of this has happened. I admit, I am disappointed in the education system and it has it's flaws; but it's not nearly as bas as what this article makes it out to be. In fact, I have never even heard of this until now and I actively research what is going on in my own state.[/QUOTE]
It hasn't been finalized yet. But if they choose to ignore the global backlash, it will be.
No snip bad
A few minutes ago the SBOE approved of the high school textbook changes (9-5).
Some of the members at least managed to fix the ridiculous thing the SBOE did a few weeks ago (when removed enlightenment thinking and Thomas Jefferson as a major enlightenment thinker). This has at least been put back in.
The rest of the ridiculous things have been left in however.
Here is a summary of today's events,
[url]http://tfninsider.org/2010/05/21/live-blogging-the-final-social-studies-vote/[/url]
[quote]9:43 – The Texas State Board of Education is set today to take a final vote on proposed new social studies curriculum standards for public schools. The board first has to finish its debate over proposed amendments to the standards. We expect that debate will resume later this morning. We expect one of the key debates today will be over what students learn about separation of church and state. Stay tuned.
11:10 – The board has resumed debate on the standards, taking up the high school world history standards first.
11:11 – Pat Hardy wants to change a world history standard dealing with the period 1450-1750, added in March, that would have students study “pro-free market factors that contributed to Europe’s Commercial Revolution.” Hardy wants to the standard simply to say “new economic factors,” with some board members noting that the concept of free markets was very different at that period. The proposal passes. The board’s far-right members don’t like it.
11:14 – Hardy wants to change “explain the benefits of free enterprise in the Industrial Revolution.” She wants the standard simply to say “effects of free enterprise,” noting that there were good and bad effects. Her goal, she says, is to remove “value-laden language” so that students can understand different sides of issues. The proposal passes. Far-right board members oppose.
11:35 – A string of largely non-controversial amendments — mostly tedious arguments about the relative merits of name after name after name…
11:38 – Here’s an interesting footnote for the history books — Don McLeroy just made a passionate argument for the addition of Alan Turing to the world history standards. One wonders if McLeroy realizes that just last fall the British Government offered a posthumous apology to Alan Turing for prosecuting him as a homosexual. No matter. McLeroy’s surprising attempt to “advance the gay agenda” is stymied when the amendment fails. (h/t Abby Rapoport)
11:52 – Take a moment to check out the video post we just put up with Cynthia Dunbar’s divisive prayer that started today’s board meeting.
12:08 – In a rambling debate over whether the world history standards should reference the “benefits” or “effects” of the free enterprise system, far-right members make the absurd argument that textbooks have historically ignored the benefits of the free enterprise system — or even more strangely, that using the word “effects” somehow paints communism is an beneficial light! “Benefits” wins the day, unsurprisingly.
12:22 – Rene Nunez moves to reinstate Oscar Romero to the world history standards. The board voted to disappear the martyred Salvadoran bishop in March when far right members stated on the record they simply did not know who Romero was.
12:26 — Romero unanimously added back. Far-right members offer no apologies for their earlier ignorance.
12:28 – Dunbar asks for a brand new world history standard to recognize William Wilberforce, a prominent British abolitionist. Amendment passes.
12:31 – Here we go. Bob Craig makes a motion to add “impact of Enlightenment ideas” back into a standard altered in March to remove references to the Enlightenment and Thomas Jefferson. Craig also asks to strike the Protestant theologian John Calvin (added in March) and restoring Thomas Jefferson. Far-right board members pounce.
12:36 – Dunbar rides to the defense of John Calvin, trying desperately to recast him as a political theorist on the order of others mentioned in the standards.
12:39 – Miller defends the absolute necessity of keeping Jefferson, reading comments from SMU history professor Ed Countryman. Board members are taken aback at sudden injection of informed opinion into their debate.
12:42 – It appears the far right is set to wave the white flag and allow Jefferson back into this standard. But they are dead set on having Aquinas and Calvin alongside him in this standard.
12:44 – Here is Dunbar’s tortured logic — the definition of Enlightenment necessarily rules out divine, received knowledge in favor of rational knowledge. Ergo, you can’t put political philosophers like Montesquieu and Blackstone in a standard mentioning Enlightenment thinking because they believed knowledge was received from God.
12:50 – Motion fails on a 7-8 vote. Pat Hardy added the eighth vote to the far-right bloc.
12:52 – Mercer immediately follows with a motion to add Thomas Jefferson and James Madison to the same standard. Pat Hardy makes an amendment to strike Madison and keep Jefferson in Mercer’s amendment.
1:04 – Hardy’s amendment to strike Madison passes 8-7. They now return to original motion as amended. It passes without objection. Welcome back, Tommy!
1:07 – Craig taking another run at reworking the troublesome standard. He proposes changing the wording to “Explain the political philosophy of individuals such as…” followed by same long list of names including Jefferson, Calvin, Aquinas, et al. Heated debate follows.
1:34 – Craig’s amendment passed a few moments ago.
2:05 – Board takes up amendments to geography standards.
2:15 – And at long last, we come to the US government standards. Let the fireworks commence.
2:16 – Bob Craig offers extensive and lengthy rewrite of the contentious church-state amendment. It is an attempt at compromise, but contains the phrase “compare and contrast” language of First Amendment with “separation of church and state.” Needless to say, we don’t see this as a compromise — implying that the First Amendment is somehow antithetical to the separation of church and state is just what the far right wants.
2:18 – Mavis Knight immediately offers an amendment striking “compare and contrast” and adding back in the language that failed in March about government being barred from promoting or disfavoring one faith over others. Her amendment fails 10-5 on a straight party line vote.
2:24 – Craig’s original amendment passes 11-3. So the standard now says “Examine the reasons the Founding Fathers protected religious freedom in America and guaranteed it free exercise by saying that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, and compare and contrast this to the phrase ‘separation of church and state’.”
2:27 – Craig offers another amendment deleting the term “constitutional republic” and inserting “democratic society” throughout the government standards. Motion fails on a show of hands.
Good luck to Texas students who will first encounter the idea of American democracy when they get to their first college class.
2:32 – Mary Helen Berlanga makes a motion to add American GI Forum to a list of political interest groups in the government standards — and to add the phrase “established due to discrimination of Hispanics” after LULAC in the same standard. Amendment fails 7-8 with Hardy providing the eighth vote to the far-right bloc.
2:41 – We’re on to sociology, so things should settle down now, right? Wrong. An amendment on sexuality and gender right out of the box.
Mavis Knight proposes restoring a standard deleted by the board in March about differentiating between sex and gender. (Knight’s amendment changes the wording slightly from the original.) Cargill repeats her paranoia that teachers will have to talk about “transvestites, transsexuals, etc., etc.” (Gasp!) Board conservatives apparently made up their minds to kill this one when they heard the word “sex.” Knight and Allen pushing for the necessity of this standard.
2:53 – Amendment fails, but provides a little preview of the health curriculum debate in a couple of years.
3:03 – In one last swipe at ethnic minorities, Cargill offers an amendment watering down the sociology standards presentation of racism. The existing standard said: “Explain how institutional racism is evident in American society.” After amendment adopted 9-5 on a party-line vote, the standard now reads “discuss instances of institutional racism in American society.” (new language based on board discussion — we will confirm when we see copy of actual amendment)
3:15 – Board working on some minor clean-up items in early grades (though even this can’t be done without lengthy bickering).
3:53 – The board is about to vote on final standards for social studies courses except economics, which will be considered separately (because of the way they are listed in official rules).
3:55 – Board members are offering their final comments on the standards. First up is Mary Helen Berlanga. Berlanga believes that the standards cover up too much of the problems the nation has faced, especially the challenges faced by minorities. When Texas kids get to college, she says, they will finally get a chance to learn real history. She announces her opposition to the proposed standards.
4:02 – Mavis also opposes adoption of the new standards. She criticizes the length and politicization of the standards. Knight also decries the rush to approve the documents rather than making sure the standards are appropriate. “I am ashamed of what we have done to the teachers and the children of this state. I will not vote for this version or any other version of this travesty.”
4:06 – Rick Agosto criticizes how the board has “perverted” the process by rewriting the detailed work of curriculum teams. “I don’t know what this thing [the standards document] is. This thing belongs in the trash!” Frankly, we wish we had seen more of this side of Agosto over the past four years. Over the past year, it’s become clear that even he has become disgusted by the way the board has turned the revision of curriculum standards into opportunities to promote personal and political agendas.
4:13 – Lawrence Allen joins in opposition to the standards and begins by apologizing to Chairwoman Gail Lowe that he isn’t qualified to set curriculum standards. “Sometimes I think I must be the dumb one at the table. Other folks here seem to think they know everything.” “I don’t think we should sit here and think we have the capability to write standards.” There’s a difference, he says, between writing standards and approving standards. Other board members have good intentions, he says: “I just think they don’t know what they’re doing.” He calls on the standards to be vetted by experts and those who will implement those standards in the schools: “If the standards are off course, then the instruction will be off course.”
4:19 – Allen moves to delay final approval by the standards until the July board meeting. Bob Craig says he was going to make a similar motion. He notes that the curriculum writers for the high school American history course have announced their opposition to the revised standards. He wants experts to review the standards as revised by the board.
4:30 – Cargil: “I am proud to have my name on this document, and I am against postponement.”
Leo: “The entire nation has vetted this curriculum…Please consider that we have put in more minorities than ever before…I don’t see what postponing would do.”
Mercer: “It sounds rational for the cameras…” but the legislature wants us to wait until January when a new board is seated. So vote now.
Bradley: “Texas changed [politically since the last social studies adoption]! This is a political process. Absent that, go find yourself a political dictator and he can tell you what to do.”
Hardy: “I still have a number of concerns about certain aspects of this document. And I’m still considering.”
4:37 – Commissioner Scott: “Waiting until July is not an excessive administrative delay…” But he doesn’t think anything will change in 60 days.
Dunbar: “I feel we have done due diligence and there is no reason for delay.”
Knight: “At the end of the day, if it’s not a quality document, it’s my responsibility to reject it.”
Craig: “I am not fearful of having somebody review the document we worked on.”
Agosto: “We’re rewriting history. We’re rewriting it the way we think it should be.”
4:46 – The motion to postpone adoption fails 6-8, with all five Democrats joined by Craig voting to postpone. Hardy joined the board’s far-right faction to oppose postponement. Geraldine “Tincy” Miller is absent.
5:00 – Oh, cry me a river. Ken Mercer is claiming people have been attacking him for being a conservative. This is the guy who has questioned the faith of people who disagree with him.
5:02 – And now Mercer is comparing his critics to the notorious Nazi propaganda chief Joseph Goebbels. Wow. Just wow.
5:06 – The board votes 9-5 to adopt the high school social studies standards. All Republicans vote yes (except Tincy Miller, who is absent), and all Democrats oppose. The board will next consider the elementary and middle school standards.[/quote]
So all the American exceptionalism and christian morality has been left in? And since Texas does most of the text book buying, this is going to spread to the entire country.
Good job America, you now take the title as the most-similar-to-a-third-world-muslim-nation first-world nation. Go indoctrination! Go theocratic rule!
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22089200]It hasn't been finalized yet. But if they choose to ignore the global backlash, it will be.
No snip bad[/QUOTE]
Ah you caught me! Anyway, I just didn't want people to get their panties in a wad. I don't agree with any of this and I honestly think the entire government of Texas needs to be purged and new people need to run the place. Ah, wishful thinking.
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