• Life may exist on Saturn's moon
    82 replies, posted
[QUOTE=MIPS;36334531]$200 says all they'll find is bacteria just like very other time.[/QUOTE] I don't think we've EVER found bacteria. We've bacterial fossils on Mars, but living bacteria would still be one of the most absurdly important scientific discoveries ever.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36338550]I don't think we've EVER found bacteria. We've bacterial fossils on Mars, but living bacteria would still be one of the most absurdly important scientific discoveries ever.[/QUOTE] nope, it just looked like bacterial fossils we've never found any trace of life on any planet yet
I've always wondered if there was intelligent life in this solar system besides us. Maybe they have some advanced cloaking system and occasionally slip up which is why we see those strangely man-made looking structures.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36337285]Didn't we find some arsenic based lifeforms in a cave[/QUOTE] There is a lot of controversy about how bad the science was for that finding. There are talks that arsenic could have just contaminated the DNA do to improper lab techniques during the study. Also, the moon has a lot of methane, but what happens is when the methane is hit by radiation in the atmosphere and what not it ionizes and can form other carbon chains... The planet is probably made up of CH3, C2H4 C2H6, CH3H8 etc etc
[QUOTE=MIPS;36334531]$200 says all they'll find is bacteria just like very other time.[/QUOTE] You do realize they've never actually found life elsewhere, right? [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=MendozaMan;36337266]I can't imagine the smell on that place. The atmosphere is made of methane, the water is made of methane. The entire planet smells like the foulest shit ever taken[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Jarate Lover;36337544]The planet is covered in Methane? I guess you can say... It's a shitty planet.[/QUOTE] Methane doesn't have a smell, you must be unfamiliar with it. They either add compounds (e.g. hydrogen sulfide) to hydrocarbons to make them smell or arsenic impurities are found which make them smell like garlic bread. [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Squad;36336367] The whole gravity thing isn't quite such a problem in chemistry. These things have a mass and that means gravity has some force on molecules and atoms, but the forces between these atoms is much greater towards each other. I have never done chemistry in zero gravity so I can't say this with absoluteness, but my hunch would be that it wouldn't have as great of an affect as you would think just do to other forces that come into play such as electrostatic forces.[/QUOTE] Near-zero gravity chemistry is pretty interesting, especially in the context of polymers or movement of gasses. The effect for the most part is minute, but consider what happens when something is burned. Density isn't an issue without gravity, there is no "up" or "down". [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3655261/Space_Fire.jpg[/img] When talking about polymers or crystal formation, gravity plays a more substantial role. I'm not to sure what experience you have in chemistry, but I'm sure you're familiar with how even trace impurities or differences in conditions can effect end results. Things such as glass will form quite differently when not under gravity. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'd wager gravity would effect things like vapor pressure. (Oh, and gravity is important for liquid-phase chemistry if you want to heat things up or keep them from flying about. There's a reason astronauts have to drink from pouches.)
[QUOTE=MIPS;36334531]$200 says all they'll find is bacteria just like very other time.[/QUOTE] We have never found bacteria on another planet. That would be a monumental discovery, as it would verify the existence of alien life.
My money is still on europa
hypothetical holy shit yes
[QUOTE=Biotoxsin;36341444]You do realize they've never actually found life elsewhere, right? [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] Methane doesn't have a smell, you must be unfamiliar with it. They either add compounds (e.g. hydrogen sulfide) to hydrocarbons to make them smell or arsenic impurities are found which make them smell like garlic bread. [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] Near-zero gravity chemistry is pretty interesting, especially in the context of polymers or movement of gasses. The effect for the most part is minute, but consider what happens when something is burned. Density isn't an issue without gravity, there is no "up" or "down". [img]https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3655261/Space_Fire.jpg[/img] When talking about polymers or crystal formation, gravity plays a more substantial role. I'm not to sure what experience you have in chemistry, but I'm sure you're familiar with how even trace impurities or differences in conditions can effect end results. Things such as glass will form quite differently when not under gravity. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I'd wager gravity would effect things like vapor pressure. (Oh, and gravity is important for liquid-phase chemistry if you want to heat things up or keep them from flying about. There's a reason astronauts have to drink from pouches.)[/QUOTE] I could have been more clear or thought it out a bit more, but what you listed is true about certain polymers and things such as glass or aerogel. I was more referring to other forms of chemistry in terms of acid base (yay blanket term for almost all of chemistry) but I was more referring to the effect on gravity on individual atoms, not on systems I guess. There are just certain things I can't see gravity effecting in terms of certain electron transfers and what not. I do have quite a bit of chemistry background so I am not merely just spouting made up things, it is just what I think. I have not and do not plan on performing any zero gravity chemistry so I would really have no idea if my guesses are anywhere near reality.
Methane lakes? Shit, that must smell like farts there.
What I dont like is when people refer to aliens as "bacteria", because more than likely that would break our entire taxonomic system. Still hope they find something, but people need to stop saying bacteria. Even saying single celled organism is leap but it's a bit more appropriate.
[QUOTE=faze;36342722]Methane lakes? Shit, that must smell like farts there.[/QUOTE] Methane is odorless.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36334428]There are quite a few species on earth that live in complete darkness.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure if you'd find facepunchers on mars's moon.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;36334776]We know a lot of life is resiliant but we are unsure on the conditions nessesary for it to start[/QUOTE] Personally I think any place that has liquid on it has life, as long as the place is a couple billion years old, give or take a couple hundred million. Everything on our planet alive is made up of the most abundant resources in the universe, the most common stuff, so it's not hard to imagine
[QUOTE=TheTalon;36346296]Personally I think any place that has liquid on it has life, as long as the place is a couple billion years old, give or take a couple hundred million. Everything on our planet alive is made up of the most abundant resources in the universe, the most common stuff, so it's not hard to imagine[/QUOTE] There is so much more than just having liquid though... If the planet can't hold an atmosphere life might not exist. If the planet doesn't have a solid iron core it might not support life. If it gets too cold or too hot it might not support life. You have to realize, Earth happens to have ideal conditions for life... We have 8 planets in our solar system or 9... plus all of the moons... Now look at how many have noticeable life on them.... Earth is the only one that has life THRIVING on it. There are so many random variables that go into creating a habitable planet.
[QUOTE=ycap5;36335667][img]http://images.wikia.com/halo/images/8/86/GruntMajorCutout.png[/img] *if you read the books[/QUOTE] Yes, grunts breath methane in it's gas form. Wait a second, we could enslave them. [editline]16th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36337285]Didn't we find some arsenic based lifeforms in a cave[/QUOTE] there's life in the yellowstone hot springs so why not some where a lot colder. it's like as a human, we find when it's too cold to be revolting and too hot to be annoying as well, even dangerous.
[quote][img_thumb]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/394/77995-21433-thanos.png[/img_thumb][/quote] Well of course there is life on Titan.
Isn't this news like... months and months old? Hell, even years? At any rate it'll be very cool to see a future rover mission at some point.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;36364198]Isn't this news like... months and months old? Hell, even years? At any rate it'll be very cool to see a future rover mission at some point.[/QUOTE] I thought the same thing, that the article was really old, when I first read about the methane lakes on Titan. Then I realized they were discussing the fact they found the lakes around Titan's [b]equator[/b]. Previously, at least to my knowledge, we only had strong hypotheses (or confirmation; I'm playing it safe) of liquid methane lakes around the poles.
[QUOTE=HolyCrusade;36334761]uh... we've never found life anywhere in the solar system buddy, it's kind of a big deal to find bacteria[/QUOTE] We never found anything but I still don't see a big deal in finding bacteria, any other than few people being able to say "HA I TOLD YA YOU RELIGIOUS NUTS, EARTH IS NOT THE ONLY PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE WITH LIFE" and I honestly can't give a shit about either of the people who want to say that nor the people this would actually touch. I think that life in outside universe is not probable, but inevitable. If we find bacteria, oh, cool, they will be probably quite unlike our lifeforms. But I wouldn't see that as a big deal. Bigger deal for me would be some massive resource deposit which we could use for secure space base, even if it was on moon or some space rocks. Specific proof of space snot would be cool but it's way low in my extra terrestrial interests.
[QUOTE=kenshin6;36335903]Too many people think that all life needs to be exactly like us and need water or whatever to survive. That is true for our planet, but not necessarily other worlds. Perhaps there is a planet somewhere with humanoid animals that survive on nitrogen or maybe they need to breathe methane to live.[/QUOTE] Carbon really IS with a high degree of certainty the most likely candidate to form life, and water is practically the best solvent imaginable for the job. I used to be in the same 'carbon chauvinism' boat when I was younger, but after having done some chemistry courses at uni it's become more and more apparent that the way life has developed on Earth is probably the way it will develop everywhere. Carbon is in this beautiful spot on the periodic table whereby it's valence electron shell is exactly half filled which in short gives it the ability to form a wide number of interesting bond types which lead to the presence of all of the interesting organic functional groups and hence molecules that we see in life. On top of that, carbon is practically the only element that forms stable chains of obscene length (like thousands of carbons long) - silicon can perform similarly, but the chains are by far less stable than carbon at those lengths and break apart much more easily. There's of course much more to it than that, and there are equally as valid chemical/physical reasons as to why water is basically the best solvent for life to use, but I'm too lazy to go into it all and, in fact, should be studying for my organic chemistry exam that I have in like 15 hours time. So basically, in short, life probably will be fairly comparable to that life which we see on Earth because of science.
I would be very happy even if it was bacteria. It would be a massive discovery. Millions of years from now, assuming they are there, they could have the potential to eventually evolve into all kinds of life forms.
[QUOTE=sltungle;36366750]Carbon really IS with a high degree of certainty the most likely candidate to form life, and water is practically the best solvent imaginable for the job. I used to be in the same 'carbon chauvinism' boat when I was younger, but after having done some chemistry courses at uni it's become more and more apparent that the way life has developed on Earth is probably the way it will develop everywhere. Carbon is in this beautiful spot on the periodic table whereby it's valence electron shell is exactly half filled which in short gives it the ability to form a wide number of interesting bond types which lead to the presence of all of the interesting organic functional groups and hence molecules that we see in life. On top of that, carbon is practically the only element that forms stable chains of obscene length (like thousands of carbons long) - silicon can perform similarly, but the chains are by far less stable than carbon at those lengths and break apart much more easily. There's of course much more to it than that, and there are equally as valid chemical/physical reasons as to why water is basically the best solvent for life to use, but I'm too lazy to go into it all and, in fact, should be studying for my organic chemistry exam that I have in like 15 hours time. So basically, in short, life probably will be fairly comparable to that life which we see on Earth because of science.[/QUOTE] Good luck on your chemistry stuff. Just remember, everything they have taught you so far is a lie... Also, if you feel like you are understanding organic chemistry very well, you haven't learned enough about it. Also, an advantage of carbon is in respiratory functions. Take in O2 exhale CO2. Well if we take in O2 and the body needs to get rid of SiO2... well now we have a solid powder instead of a gas to get rid of. So if there is silicon based life, that means it has to have a completely different respiratory system than we have. Also, silicon can form molecules specifically quaternary amines that on earth act as antimicrobial agents... So then that life would have to be even more different than life here on Earth. We start getting into problems where every little thing has to change, which isn't implausible, but now we are working with elements that are not very common at all. Could be very unlikely.
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