• We're on our way to Britain: A year from now up to 29m Bulgarians and Romanians will have the right
    461 replies, posted
[QUOTE=dass;39012385]Individuals in certain ethnic groups are taught the same way as their elders. It's a big part of them to pass on their culture to the next generation, whatever it might be.[/QUOTE]And they all fall in line and do what they are told, right?
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;39012390]And what makes you think that crime is part of their culture? Stereotypes? Experiences with individuals?[/QUOTE] Or just what their elders might teach them to do, it's not like crime is part of their culture. [editline]29th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;39012399]And they all fall in line and do what they are told, right?[/QUOTE] If their only guides in life are negative like that, yes. It's the same as a kid with a bad parent.
[QUOTE=dass;39012419]If their only guides in life are negative like that, yes. It's the same as a kid with a bad parent.[/QUOTE]There are plenty of good kids raised by bad parents. Similarly there are plenty of bad kids raised by good parents. Also, this is just more bigoted generalizations when you assume that they are just being taught to be criminals.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;39012488]There are plenty of good kids raised by bad parents. Similarly there are plenty of bad kids raised by good parents. Also, this is just more bigoted generalizations when you assume that they are just being taught to be criminals.[/QUOTE] Some are, some aren't. No matter who it is. That's not even a generalization, thats just knowing the world we live in...
I hate these gypsy fucks that give good romanians like us a bad name.
[QUOTE=dass;39012567]Some are, some aren't. No matter who it is. That's not even a generalization, thats just knowing the world we live in...[/QUOTE]You're trying to argue that they all are though.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;39012610]You're trying to argue that they all are though.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE] Or just what their elders might teach them to do, it's not like crime is part of their culture. If their only guides in life are negative like that, yes. It's the same as a kid with a bad parent.[/QUOTE] No I'm not.
[QUOTE=dass;39012642]No I'm not.[/QUOTE] So what causes gypsies to be criminals?
at this point I'm surprised "gypsy" isn't considered a racial slur with how negatively it's used all of the time.
[QUOTE=Joeyl10;39013739]at this point I'm surprised "gypsy" isn't considered a racial slur with how negatively it's used all of the time.[/QUOTE] it is in a lot of places, especially where I live
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;39007402]You would think that having more people that want to live in your country is considered a [b]good thing[/b] I guess it's only a Land of Opportunity if you're born as a 5th generation in the family that remained in the country the whole time.[/QUOTE] This is going to sound dangerously Daily Mail, but bear with me. When I worked in the Port of Dover, any Romanian travelling on a ferry was put on a watch list for the on-board shop. Last time I was there, about 90% of them would attempt to steal something. I felt bad for the 10% that were honest. It's always the honest ones I feel sorry for. If ANYONE is fleeing a country because they are persecuted or they want a better life for themselves I would throw money at them. But having a poorly written piece of legislation written by a body that about half the country doesn't want to be part of ruins that helpful heritage. Delores wants the UK to just leave the EU this year, so we'll see what happens.
Fuck off... Wales can't take anymore gypsies... we have no legal authority to do anything about the crimes of the ones that are already here.
omg I love that we had a daily mail news bot new year's resolution: unban daily mail 2k13
In my area, alot of the business' are being bought out or taken over by gypsies, turkish and muslims but then again I must be racist because I don't approve of it. Jesus Christ guys, its like you're all scared of making an opinion against these immigration issues because you might be called a word that has been completely exaggerated and if someone makes a good argument against all these immigrants, people are either banned or are called racist without a reason. Grow up.
Gotta low how when people complained about gypsies in Eastern Europe thread, everyone called those people racist. And now those same people who called others racist are complaining about the gypsies.
Don't immigration candidates go through a lengthy selection process before being accepted?
[QUOTE=Stopper;39008873]Also, there seems to be a giant misconception about gypsies, especially in the article. Gypsies are given a fair chance as everyone - education is free here. EVERY child is free to go to school. Most gypsies don't do that. I don't know what their reasoning is, but they don't. They're illiterate and they refuse to fix that. Then, they wonder why they can't get a job! In this economy, where even people with a real sound education struggle![/QUOTE] Gels with what I've heard from my girlfriend, who is Hungarian. I hear interesting stories from her mother about the Gypsy children who go to (Albeit briefly, before their parents pull them out for whatever reason) the Kindergarten that she (her mother) teaches at, too. It's certainly interesting hearing about Gypsy.. uh... "culture", from her too. Ofcourse, saying the things I've heard from people who live alongside these people day in, day out, would make me a "racist" on here, so I'm not going to bother. [editline]29th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Hawke7;39015016]Don't immigration candidates go through a lengthy selection process before being accepted?[/QUOTE] Not really, not with the EU "Freedom of movement" stuff - they're allowed into the country and only have to stay 5 years until they can apply for citizenship and sit a test. I think it's only 3 years if they marry someone from the UK. (My girlfriend is studying and working in the UK until she can get her citizenship) [editline]29th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Joeyl10;39013739]at this point I'm surprised "gypsy" isn't considered a racial slur with how negatively it's used all of the time.[/QUOTE] But it's the actual name for the people, so it's not a racial slur - Hell, it's how they refer to themselves. They just conjure up a negative image in the mind's of people.
I don't really care who gets accepted into this country, whether or not they're actually seeking to escape persecution or seek asylum. But there is one thing that should not happen. They should not then get a giant council house for free and all the money they would ever need to sustain themselves, to the point that some are even given more than middle class workers. Its absolutely pathetic that someone can get on a boat, land here, make claims for money (and then scrounge even more money out by claiming for disability benefits) and a huge house, and live for free for the rest of their fucking lives, funded by the state. Theresa May bitched about how she would change it but nothing has changed because she's gutless, as is Cameron. There should be hostel's for immigrants, and the rules should be very clear- if after X amount of time you do not have a job despite clear evidence of open vacancies in the area, you're deported, because then you're just another useless piece of pondlife bringing the country down. The enforcement of such a law should be strict so people can't bullshit their way out of checks. Immigrants that understand how society works will get a job, work hard like normal people and get a place to live as they deserve.
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;39015937]I don't really care who gets accepted into this country, whether or not they're actually seeking to escape persecution or seek asylum. But there is one thing that should not happen. They should not then get a giant council house for free and all the money they would ever need to sustain themselves, to the point that some are even given more than middle class workers. Its absolutely pathetic that someone can get on a boat, land here, make claims for money (and then scrounge even more money out by claiming for disability benefits) and a huge house, and live for free for the rest of their fucking lives, funded by the state. Theresa May bitched about how she would change it but nothing has changed because she's gutless, as is Cameron. There should be hostel's for immigrants, and the rules should be very clear- if after X amount of time you do not have a job despite clear evidence of open vacancies in the area, you're deported, because then you're just another useless piece of pondlife bringing the country down. The enforcement of such a law should be strict so people can't bullshit their way out of checks. Immigrants that understand how society works will get a job, work hard like normal people and get a place to live as they deserve.[/QUOTE] Yeah, well tough shit, mate.
What I love about this is that the daily mail saying "We don't want these dirty Eastern European immigrants" is somehow less offensive than saying "We don't want these dirty Muslim immigrants" or somesuch. I know quite a few Romanians and Bulgarians and they're chill people. Their own countries are developing and getting better. If they're screwing up the UK, maybe the UK should fix their welfare system instead of just shutting out people who want to work and have a better life.
Time to leave the EU.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;39016191]What I love about this is that the daily mail saying "We don't want these dirty Eastern European immigrants" is somehow less offensive than saying "We don't want these dirty Muslim immigrants" or somesuch. I know quite a few Romanians and Bulgarians and they're chill people. [B]Their own countries are developing and getting better[/B]. If they're screwing up the UK, maybe the UK should fix their welfare system instead of just shutting out people who want to work and have a better life.[/QUOTE] That's a bit of a stretch. Sure - we're building motorways, modernizing everything with a fair pace, but on the other hand stuff like education is left to its own devices. Some subjects are being studied using 10-15 year old schoolbooks, teachers get a measly salary and have barely any motivation to work other than their love for children and education. Which is sort of good, because the only teachers that are [I]left[/I] are those who really love doing what they do. It's not all bad, and we [I]are[/I] on the way to "recovery" but without some major attention to the things that [I]really[/I] matter, we're fucking doomed.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;39016191]What I love about this is that the daily mail saying "We don't want these dirty Eastern European immigrants" is somehow less offensive than saying "We don't want these dirty Muslim immigrants" or somesuch. I know quite a few Romanians and Bulgarians and they're chill people. Their own countries are developing and getting better. If they're screwing up the UK, maybe the UK should fix their welfare system instead of just shutting out people who want to work and have a better life.[/QUOTE] You assume there is work for people to do. There is not. You assume we produce/export anything and thus require unskilled labourers to produce it, but we do not. There would need to be 2,510,000 more jobs in order to give employment to everyone who is currently unemployed in Britain for whatever reason. There simply isn't that many jobs available. I'd warrant a guess that there's less than 100,000 jobs available at any one time. It's all very well to say 'oh it's all just statistics, the government just needs to increase the number of businesses and then there will be enough jobs' - but this is not how it works at all. Businesses don't just appear magically like in Sim City and then provide jobs for lots of people. Until we boost government support and investment in startup businesses (which we don't currently.. instead they get raped for taxes) and increase the employment rate that way, there's no fucking way we could take on an additional 29,000,000 unskilled people and give them all jobs and taxes/welfare are simply not enough to sustain them. This additionally pisses off people who are paying already-extortionate taxes as people are receiving 'money for nothing' by no fault of their own. Besides, unskilled labour is boring as fuck. Even if we had enough jobs to sustain everyone, they'd move here expecting their lives to suddenly become magnificent. Days, weeks, months, years later - their initial enthusiasm at living a 'better life in the new world' will diminish and they'll find themselves just as unhappy as they were before, for their inability to escape their entrapment. An example of this is the small population of Muslims wishing to enforce Sharia law in Britain - They came here for a better life in our civilisation, yet instead of adapting to our ways and customs, they simply wish to enforce their own rule on it because their happiness at simply being here diminished and was replaced by a hatred of things our country lacks that their own provided.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;39016392]You assume there is work for people to do. There is not. You assume we produce/export anything and thus require unskilled labourers to produce it, but we do not. There would need to be 2,510,000 more jobs in order to give employment to everyone who is currently unemployed in Britain for whatever reason. There simply isn't that many jobs available. I'd warrant a guess that there's less than 100,000 jobs available at any one time. It's all very well to say 'oh it's all just statistics, the government just needs to increase the number of businesses and then there will be enough jobs' - but this is not how it works at all. Businesses don't just appear magically like in Sim City and then provide jobs for lots of people. Until we boost government support and investment in startup businesses (which we don't currently.. instead they get raped for taxes) and increase the employment rate that way, there's no fucking way we could take on an [B]additional 29,000,000 unskilled people and give them all jobs.[/B] Besides, unskilled labour is boring as fuck. Even if we had enough jobs to sustain everyone, they'd move here expecting their lives to suddenly become magnificent. Days, weeks, months, years later - their initial enthusiasm at living a 'better life in the new world' will diminish and they'll find themselves just as unhappy as they were before, for their inability to escape their entrapment. An example of this is the small population of Muslims wishing to enforce Sharia law in Britain - They came here for a better life in our civilisation, yet instead of adapting to our ways and customs, they simply wish to enforce their own rule on it because their happiness at simply being here diminished and was replaced by a hatred of things our country lacks that their own provided.[/QUOTE] Just FYI, you're not taking on every single Bulgarian and Romanian on Earth and even if you were, the statement that they're all unskilled is fucking ridiculous and derogatory.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39016409]Just FYI, you're not taking on every single Bulgarian and Romanian on Earth and even if you were, the statement that they're all unskilled is fucking ridiculous and derogatory.[/QUOTE] Unskilled labour is the most common form of labour with the most number of jobs available within it because it is the most basic and open-to-anyone form of job. Following this you have Skilled labour - this immediately is a lot harder to come by because they simply require that someone has been doing something for an amount of time (probably 2-3 years) and has accumulated experience in it enough to take on more responsibility in a managerial role or similar position. Instead of needing 8 people to perform an unskilled labour task (like assembly) that they can pick up almost instantly - you simply need one skilled person to perform a task with a high degree of training/skill, like organising the staff performing the task, or doing something more important with more precision. For every 20 (unskilled) floor staff in the store I used to work in, there was a (skilled) supervisor who had at least 4 years working in the store and was now able to manage people effectively. Above this was a (skilled) manager who managed several departments of supervisors and above this were further management departments of skilled workers. AKA there is not as great a demand for skilled workers as there is for unskilled workers. You misinterpreted this as 'Foreigners are unskilled'. I'd say that of all jobs, 80% are unskilled, 15% are skilled, 4% are graduate-specific.
These kind of threads surely dredge out the bigots, casual racists, moronic and loony sections of facepunch.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;39016457]Unskilled labour is the most common form of labour with the most number of jobs available within it because it is the most basic and open-to-anyone form of job. Following this you have Skilled labour - this immediately is a lot harder to come by because they simply require that someone has been doing something for an amount of time (probably 2-3 years) and has accumulated experience in it enough to take on more responsibility in a managerial role or similar position. Instead of needing 8 people to perform an unskilled labour task (like assembly) that they can pick up almost instantly - you simply need one skilled person to perform a task with a high degree of training/skill, like organising the staff performing the task, or doing something more important with more precision. For every 20 (unskilled) floor staff in the store I used to work in, there was a (skilled) supervisor who had at least 4 years working in the store and was now able to manage people effectively. Above this was a (skilled) manager who managed several departments of supervisors and above this were further management departments of skilled workers. AKA there is not as great a demand for skilled workers as there is for unskilled workers. You misinterpreted this as 'Foreigners are unskilled'. I'd say that of all jobs, 80% are unskilled, 15% are skilled, 4% are graduate-specific.[/QUOTE] I'm not misinterpreting anything. The way you're wording it makes it sound like the current population of Bulgaria and Romania [I]can't do anything[/I]. Don't you think people that immigrate, might do so with, I don't know: Previous experience and a degree in something? We're not some third world country, you know. The jobs here require just as much skill and expertise as jobs in any other country. An engineer here isn't any less skilled than an engineer in the UK and what you're saying is that people who immigrate are inherently unskilled and whatever job they take on, they'd need re-specialization which is just wrong.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;39016547]These kind of threads surely dredge out the bigots, casual racists, moronic and loony sections of facepunch.[/QUOTE] It also brings out liberals, idiots and stuckup brats who know nothing of the world.
[QUOTE=BloodRayne;39016590]It also brings out liberals, idiots and stuckup brats who know nothing of the world.[/QUOTE] Oh and look, also the right wing apologists.
[QUOTE=Stopper;39016558]I'm not misinterpreting anything. The way you're wording it makes it sound like the current population of Bulgaria and Romania [I]can't do anything[/I]. Don't you think people that immigrate, might do so with, I don't know: Previous experience and a degree in something? We're not some third world country, you know. The jobs here require just as much skill and expertise as jobs in any other country. An engineer here isn't any less skilled than an engineer in the UK and what you're saying is that people who immigrate are inherently unskilled and whatever job they take on, they'd need re-specialization which is just wrong.[/QUOTE] 100 Store managers from Bulgaria migrate to Britain. Are there 100 stores that need managing? No. 1 of them gets a job in store management. 4 of them manage to find jobs in management of various other companies. 50 of them take on unskilled work in a store until they can prove they are able. 45 take on unrelated unskilled work in other places that need employment. This is in a happy land where we assume everyone can get jobs. This is certainly not the case and we are not dealing with 100 people.
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