• Pope Francis Says the Ban on Women Priests Will Last Forever
    86 replies, posted
At least the crusades pretty much happened as people say they happened (aside from some crazy christians.) The dark ages themselves however are loaded with shitty unfair revisionism
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51299186]My reaction to that was to imagine humans being banned from being priests and all priests were dogs[/QUOTE] this was what i actually meant gg mister sandman im proud of you
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51301489]this was what i actually meant gg mister sandman im proud of you[/QUOTE] Will there be a point where you quit shitposting in this thread?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51296514]It won't last forever. Eventually it'll change. Maybe not soon, now because of this, but the church will eventually adapt.[/QUOTE] I don't understand how you can correct/update what is supposed to be the incorrigible will and word of God, you cannot retcon scripture because of feelings without removing what makes that faith a faith to begin with.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51299139]Religion is inherently dogmatic, which by its nature means it resists progress. [Editline] rip[/editline] My automerge.[/QUOTE] what the hell even is "progress"? depending on how you define progress, somebody can easily come to the opposite conclusion of you
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51297446]I'm inclined to agree. I'm not religious in the slightest, but I recognize that religion has huge cultural significance, and can be a force for a lot of good. While I do agree that most major world religions are have some significant streaks of outdated and regressive beliefs, I believe the solution to that is the continued social and cultural reform of those religions, not something as absurd as outlawing them. I always value discussions relating to religion that are focused on how we, as a society, can work towards helping to reform the regressive aspects rather than just moaning about how bad and stupid and evil the religion is for having them in the first place. Progressive religious groups can be quite lovely. Progressive Islam, progressive Christianity, they're still rooted in faith, in family, but they recognize that the world is a changing place, and that the path to God is not in fighting to preserve archaic mindsets, but in the simple service of their fellow man through volunteering, charity, outreach programs, support groups, self acceptance, and respect of differing perspectives.[/QUOTE] Some religions do actively call out for hate though... and should be treated the same as we treat other groups without exceptions or special privileges... Separation of church and state > religious freedoms Because if you guarantee the first over the second, the second flows out of that naturally. But if you guarantee the first, that can be abused in favour of some religions or used to turn religion in a political tool.
[QUOTE=Captain James;51301856]I don't understand how you can correct/update what is supposed to be the incorrigible will and word of God, you cannot retcon scripture because of feelings without removing what makes that faith a faith to begin with.[/QUOTE] As someone pointed out on the first page, the church recognizes that the Bible is human made with numerous edits.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51301883]Some religions do actively call out for hate though... and should be treated the same as we treat other groups without exceptions or special privileges... Separation of church and state > religious freedoms Because if you guarantee the first over the second, the second flows out of that naturally. But if you guarantee the first, that can be abused in favour of some religions or used to turn religion in a political tool.[/QUOTE] You're right, but the problem is with the rest of the world in that too many speak in the language of empathy and view all things as equal when it simply isn't the case, some cultures, beliefs, and religions are simply better than others and prey on this false idea to strengthen their growth. [editline]3rd November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51301897]As someone pointed out on the first page, the church recognizes that the Bible is human made with numerous edits.[/QUOTE] So where does the line get drawn at what is canon and what isn't? You don't have to have a six year academic reservoir of studies behind you to know why priesthood is only passed unto men stemming from Jesus's acts and what followed after his apostles.
[QUOTE=Captain James;51301921] So where does the line get drawn at what is canon and what isn't? You don't have to have a six year academic reservoir of studies behind you to know why priesthood is only passed unto men stemming from Jesus's acts and what followed after his apostles.[/QUOTE] That is the purview of the Vatican to determine what is canon and what isn't. They've been doing that for thousands of years now. They have changed some things over time, but as I said in another post, change takes a [I]very[/I] long time.
Well, it is their religion, you don't have to be a part of it. If they say that their book has this rule, and they want to follow it because it is their god that made this rule, well then maybe their god isn't the god you want to follow.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51301951]That is the purview of the Vatican to determine what is canon and what isn't. They've been doing that for thousands of years now. They have changed some things over time, but as I said in another post, change takes a [I]very[/I] long time.[/QUOTE] I understand how the Vatican determines what is canon and what isn't, I am in having said that going out on a limb and suggesting that what is supposed to be from it's first conception/point of awareness that God is infallible in every sense of the word (both literally and figuratively) as <the> foundation that supports the entire belief it strikes me as kind of antithetical to practising and engaging in ritual when it is open to change from what is recognised as a flawed being within it's very scripture mentioned within that initial birthing of it ie man being flawed. Say whether it's true or not but for point of example in a parallel world I am spoken to by what is officially the creator of all matter, and that creator dictates to me absolute truth that women cannot and must not be allowed to wear the colour blue in any fabric, then a few millennia and generations later to appeal to emotion and ideas of inclusiveness it's retconned by what is appointed as the figurehead of that absolute, inarguable truth of how things simply are as matter-of-fact dictated by those teachings going completely and indefensibly against the official way things are meant to be, either God is wrong and unknowing or that faith has lost it's original point and that is terribly over looked as a logical inconsistency and fallacy, either being absolute inarguable points for completely stopping/ceasing to practice what is mundane ritual.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51301897]As someone pointed out on the first page, the church recognizes that the Bible is human made with numerous edits.[/QUOTE] But still bases 'divine' mandate on its scriptures... they are having their cake and eating it...
[QUOTE=Captain James;51301985]I understand how the Vatican determines what is canon and what isn't, I am in having said that going out on a limb and suggesting that what is supposed to be from it's first conception/point of awareness that God is infallible in every sense of the word (both literally and figuratively) as <the> foundation that supports the entire belief it strikes me as kind of antithetical to practising and engaging in ritual when it is open to change from what is recognised as a flawed being within it's very scripture mentioned within that initial birthing of it ie man being flawed.[/QUOTE] Flaw will always land on man, not god. If something changes because it was "flawed" in some way, then the blame is on early man for misunderstanding.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51301994]But still bases 'divine' mandate on its scriptures... they are having their cake and eating it...[/QUOTE] This is essentially the point I'm making.
people still continue to defend Francis to me, saying that he's "not as bad as the others" and stuff just because he's said cool things. it's like.. how can you fall for that?? how can you believe obvious pandering? it's playing to popularity. the catholic church is an racket and always has been. don't believe his lies. [editline]3rd November 2016[/editline] personal religious beliefs are wholly acceptable and i encourage people to have faith so long as it's faith with themselves because it can create a good ego barrier against the terror of the world around us, but international-scale organized religion is a force of pure, intentional evil and history has proven this to us through fountains of blood. the catholic church in particular cannot be excused for its bloody history, as it has done nothing to repent. it just acts like it didn't happen and that it's Totally Changed Now even though the vatican would probably have its paramilitary goons slaughter heretics by the wagonload if it was able to.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51301489]this was what i actually meant gg mister sandman im proud of you[/QUOTE] Can you make [I]one[/I] post in this thread that isn't an all-lowercase shitpost? [editline]a[/editline] Every single fucking one of your posts in this thread is either a poorly-worded blanket statement or a "hurr lol gg" comeback
[QUOTE=Roger Waters;51303960] international-scale organized religion is a force of pure, intentional evil and history has proven this to us through fountains of blood. the catholic church in particular cannot be excused for its bloody history, as it has done nothing to repent. it just acts like it didn't happen and that it's Totally Changed Now even though the vatican would probably have its paramilitary goons slaughter heretics by the wagonload if it was able to.[/QUOTE] Yes, who could forget when the Catholic Church executed millions of Jews during World War II? Oh wait, we hid thousands of them while the "evil" Germans killed them in gas chambers. Well what about when the Catholic Church subjugated the people of India through colonization? Oops. That was actually the British. Do you see the problem now with generalizing events and vilifying people?
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[QUOTE=Roger Waters;51303960]people still continue to defend Francis to me, saying that he's "not as bad as the others" and stuff just because he's said cool things. it's like.. how can you fall for that?? how can you believe obvious pandering? it's playing to popularity. the catholic church is an racket and always has been. don't believe his lies. [editline]3rd November 2016[/editline] personal religious beliefs are wholly acceptable and i encourage people to have faith so long as it's faith with themselves because it can create a good ego barrier against the terror of the world around us, but international-scale organized religion is a force of pure, intentional evil and history has proven this to us through fountains of blood. the catholic church in particular cannot be excused for its bloody history, as it has done nothing to repent. it just acts like it didn't happen and that it's Totally Changed Now even though the vatican would probably have its paramilitary goons slaughter heretics by the wagonload if it was able to.[/QUOTE] If you knew anything about Pope Francis and his personal history, you would know he means what he says.
[QUOTE=gk99;51304465]Can you make [I]one[/I] post in this thread that isn't an all-lowercase shitpost? [editline]a[/editline] Every single fucking one of your posts in this thread is either a poorly-worded blanket statement or a "hurr lol gg" comeback[/QUOTE] how is me writing in lower case a big deal? [editline]4th November 2016[/editline] like i don't think it really changes my message haha [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting" - Bradyns))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=adamsz;51304581]Yes, who could forget when the Catholic Church executed millions of Jews during World War II? Oh wait, we hid thousands of them while the "evil" Germans killed them in gas chambers. Well what about when the Catholic Church subjugated the people of India through colonization? Oops. That was actually the British. Do you see the problem now with generalizing events and vilifying people?[/QUOTE] the nazi regime was evil, and the british empire was evil too. infact im probably one of few people here who'll outright slate the history of their country. england, like most large powers, has a history of hundreds if not thousands of years of darkness and bafflement and senseless slaughter in the name of a flag or an idea. the only difference is the british empire and the third reich no longer exist, whereas the sovereign catholic church does. i vilify the catholic church because they're evil and have unchanged in hundreds of years. the only difference between now and then is that now they no longer have as tight a grip on world governments or nations, meaning they can no longer get away with their past atrocities unchecked. if they could, they would. [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51305252]If you knew anything about Pope Francis and his personal history, you would know he means what he says.[/QUOTE] so when he says bad things like this, he means them too? right..
[QUOTE=Roger Waters;51309355] so when he says bad things like this, he means them too? right..[/QUOTE] I really don't see how this is a "bad thing". A bit unfair, yes, but inherently 'bad'? No
[QUOTE=Roger Waters;51309355] i vilify the catholic church because they're evil and have unchanged in hundreds of years. the only difference between now and then is that now they no longer have as tight a grip on world governments or nations, meaning they can no longer get away with their past atrocities unchecked. if they could, they would. [/QUOTE] I'm no fan of the Church either but they've made some progress over the years. For example, they stopped blaming all Jews for the death of Christ in 1972 and they've participated in numerous interfaith dialogues, they believe in evolution. Nowadays the Church is more humanistic than the Church pre-reformation.
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