[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24682583]I'm not saying it doesn't work better in the real world. The ideal societal structure I can think of is a capitalist socialist democratic republic.[/QUOTE]
If you're going to go with ideals, communism [I]and[/I] capitalism are both perfect in every shape and form.
Ideally.
In practice, they screw up a lot. It's not the system, it's humanity in general that can't get its act straight, whether for peaceful communism or honest capitalism.
[QUOTE=toxicpiano;24684968]Yes I understand that, I completely agree that it should not be up to the market to decide certain things, especially like public transport (not including air travel), healthcare, education etc. What I'm saying is that there are some instances where competition in the market is of genuine benefit to consumers in terms of price.[/QUOTE]
The cuts in prices still have to effect someone, competition between businesses has led to opening sweat-shops and countless other injustices.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;24685390]If you're going to go with ideals, communism [I]and[/I] capitalism are both perfect in every shape and form.
Ideally.
In practice, they screw up a lot. It's not the system, it's humanity in general that can't get its act straight, whether for peaceful communism or honest capitalism.[/QUOTE]
Capitalism negates the human element. It's anti-Humanist and cannot work. so in theory it fails and in reality it fails. Not only that, it's literally one of the most evil economic systems.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24686397]Capitalism negates the human element. It's anti-Humanist and cannot work. so in theory it fails and in reality it fails. Not only that, it's literally one of the most evil economic systems.[/QUOTE]
If it fails, then why is it still around? Why is it used by first world countries if it's so bad? Really, Communism fails more than Capitalism. The idea just won't work in practice because humans will screw it up.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;24686683]If it fails, then why is it still around? Why is it used by first world countries if it's so bad? Really, Communism fails more than Capitalism. The idea just won't work in practice because humans will screw it up.[/QUOTE]
Feudalism was used by many european countries, just because something is used now doesn't mean it's perfect.
And capitalism is used by first-world countries because they don't suffer many of the negative effects of it.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;24686683]If it fails, then why is it still around? Why is it used by first world countries if it's so bad? Really, Communism fails more than Capitalism. The idea just won't work in practice because humans will screw it up.[/QUOTE]
Capitalism has only really been around for a few hundred years, it replaced Feudalism. I'm pretty sure supporters of Feudalism used the same argument.
Look at the state of Capitalist countries, they're crippling. When you add more socialism, it succeeds. It's just plain reality.
[editline]04:17PM[/editline]
1st world countries are ruled and run by the rich. capitalism produces capital for the wealthy, regardless of the cost of life, but it still provides to the leaders. So OF COURSE Capitalism is still used.
[QUOTE=evilking1;24665064]Hitler ordered good roads to be built in Germany.
So, if you want good roads, you are a goddamn nazi bastard.[/QUOTE]
Well, just about every "Communist" nation (and even Nazi Germany) campaigned for free health care, but I don't see anyone being labeled for pushing for that.
[QUOTE=Sir Muffin;24688220]Well, just about every "Communist" nation (and even Nazi Germany) campaigned for free health care, but I don't see anyone being labeled for pushing for that.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Cn61JM4kNR8/Sl0k_J3MY7I/AAAAAAAAAYk/3O_ewY8yH5M/s1600/Copy%2Bof%2Bobamacare.JPG[/img]
yeah me neither
[QUOTE=Warhol;24683773]
whhhaaa, he made fun of my stupid band[/QUOTE]
it's not my band, it's thom yorke's
[QUOTE=Warhol;24682862]Name me one thing that improves with capitalism.[/QUOTE]
Ireland's economy
:smug:
I know you think you live in a socialist paradise but Ireland has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world and is very capitalistic.
[QUOTE=RBM11;24692774]Ireland's economy
:smug:
I know you think you live in a socialist paradise but Ireland has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world and is very capitalistic.[/QUOTE]
And the unemployment rate is the second highest in Europe, far above the E.U average.
Are you living under a rock?
all democrats enjoy islam and masturbate to gay porn
[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;24693262]And the unemployment rate is the second highest in Europe, far above the E.U average.
Are you living under a rock?[/QUOTE]
That's a recent development.
Why do people who relate things to communism always point out the smallest planks of communism and never the whole "Workers control the means of production" idea? Is it maybe because the things they relate to Communism actually are good ideas and have nothing to do with Socialization and Marxism?
[QUOTE=Gmod_Fan77;24679624]What's wrong with Communists? :colbert:[/QUOTE]
Where do I even start...
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;24697153]Where do I even start...[/QUOTE]
Where do we start about whats wrong with your chosen system? There's just as many problems.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24697204]Where do we start about whats wrong with your chosen system? There's just as many problems.[/QUOTE]
While the problems of modern day commercialism and globalization in the world are numerous, the problems of Stalinism are far more incandescent.
However, true communism reserves the right of immunity as it still requires experimentation, as right now it's all theory.
I love how the dumb rating has become synonymous with disagree.
[editline]07:27PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;24696378]Why do people who relate things to communism always point out the smallest planks of communism and never the whole "Workers control the means of production" idea? Is it maybe because the things they relate to Communism actually are good ideas and have nothing to do with Socialization and Marxism?[/QUOTE]
Communism is good in theory, but its ideals can never really be realized.
[editline]07:28PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Warhol;24682862]Name me one thing that improves with capitalism.[/QUOTE]
The free market?
[QUOTE=Roskarnolkov;24697315]Communism is good in theory, but its ideals can never really be realized.[/QUOTE]
Well you completely missed the point, but ok, even though theres no evidence to support that idea
[editline]07:29PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Warhol;24682862]Name me one thing that improves with capitalism.[/QUOTE]
Capitalists
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;24697275]While the problems of modern day commercialism and globalization in the world are numerous, the problems of Stalinism are far more incandescent.
However, true communism reserves the right of immunity as it still requires experimentation, as right now it's all theory.[/QUOTE]
Stalinism=/=communism buddy.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24697444]Stalinism=/=communism buddy.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, read the second part of my post
:irony:
All I could think of in response to this.
[QUOTE=Jiyoon;24697452]Yeah, read the second part of my post[/QUOTE]
I did.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;24697684]I did.[/QUOTE]
The poster above you was referring to communism in the Stalinist sense, I agree with him that Stalinism is far worse than modern day commercialism, however remain resolute when it comes to real communism as there has never been a truly communist society.
Aren't most western democracies a mixture of communism and captialism? Social equality allows people to compete equally, making the free market more effecient.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;24697753]Aren't most western democracies a mixture of communism and captialism? Social equality allows people to compete equally, making the free market more effecient.[/QUOTE]
You can't have a "Mixture" of communism or be "part" communist. Communism is the workers control of the means of production. it's black and white with no grey area. Communist is a noun, not an adjective
[QUOTE=Sir Muffin;24688220]Well, just about every "Communist" nation (and even Nazi Germany) campaigned for free health care, but I don't see anyone being labeled for pushing for that.[/QUOTE]
So fucking what?
[editline]12:50AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=RBM11;24692774]Ireland's economy
:smug:
I know you think you live in a socialist paradise but Ireland has one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world and is very capitalistic.[/QUOTE]
Ireland's economy is in the shitter. Like Greece level terrible.
[editline]12:51AM[/editline]
Even if Ireland, which was originally a socialist country, was still as socialist as you think I think it is... Ireland would not be a good example.
[editline]12:51AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=WhatTheKlent;24693262]And the unemployment rate is the second highest in Europe, far above the E.U average.
Are you living under a rock?[/QUOTE]
exactly
[editline]12:51AM[/editline]
[quote=boba_fett;24697153]where do i even start...[/quote]
well they smell and they're bad guys whhaaa
[QUOTE=Warhol;24697938]
well they smell and they're bad guys whhaaa[/QUOTE]
Well, yeah, communists don't really shower.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24686397]Capitalism negates the human element. It's anti-Humanist and cannot work. so in theory it fails and in reality it fails. Not only that, it's literally one of the most evil economic systems.[/QUOTE]
And communism forgets that humanity is naturally greedy and egoist. It'll never work.
So we're even. Neither side works perfectly on paper, and both sides work perfectly on paper.
[QUOTE=Warhol;24697938]So fucking what?
[editline]12:50AM[/editline]
Ireland's economy is in the shitter. Like Greece level terrible.
[editline]12:51AM[/editline]
Even if Ireland, which was originally a socialist country, was still as socialist as you think I think it is... Ireland would not be a good example.
[editline]12:51AM[/editline]
exactly
[editline]12:51AM[/editline]
well they smell and they're bad guys whhaaa[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about right now I'm talking about in the latter half of the 20th century.
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