• TV Land Pulls Dukes of Hazzard off the Air (Guess Why)
    69 replies, posted
[QUOTE=0x0000000C;48128059]I don't remember the Duke Boys ever dragging a charred dead black guy with their Charger on the show. Please tell me how fucking removing every trace of this show is a good idea? There isn't any racism (that I remember), it's all because of a harmless fucking flag.[/QUOTE] I wasn't even talking about the show. I'm talking about the flag and what it actually represents. Holy shit it's actually impossible to discuss this stuff with you guys because you do [I]this exact shit[/I] every single time. Pulling the entire show? Could easily be considered a bit of an overreaction. The show itself might not have a single racist thing in it after all (I don't know or particularly care about the show so whatever). But to claim everything going on with the flag is "stupid" or "retarded" or whatever way you want to dismiss people actually trying to remove an ages old symbol of racism in North America from things that honestly receive no benefit for having the flag on it is pretty damn ignorant. It's not "ignoring history" or "oppressing" anybody. It's society finally actually thinking about the meanings of things and taking some kind of action for once.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48128235]I wasn't even talking about the show. I'm talking about the flag and what it actually represents. Holy shit it's actually impossible to discuss this stuff with you guys because you do [I]this exact shit[/I] every single time. Pulling the entire show? Could easily be considered a bit of an overreaction. The show itself might not have a single racist thing in it after all (I don't know or particularly care about the show so whatever). But to claim everything going on with the flag is "stupid" or "retarded" or whatever way you want to dismiss people actually trying to remove an ages old symbol of racism in North America from things that honestly receive no benefit for having the flag on it is pretty damn ignorant. It's not "ignoring history" or "oppressing" anybody. It's society finally actually thinking about the meanings of things and taking some kind of action for once.[/QUOTE] Removing the flag from state capitols and other government-related things makes sense but that's where this whole thing should've ended. This anti-flag bandwagon isn't accomplishing anything. [editline]5th July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=hexpunK;48126838]What "positive context" has the flag actually got though? "Southern pride"? "Heritage"? Neither of those were what the flag stood for in it's inception, they aren't what the flags history actually reflect. A flag flown by a group of (for lack of a better term) traitors to their country, fighting for the ability to avoid changing their laws (to stop owning other humans for one). Any "positive contexts" it has are all incredibly recent additions to the "meaning" of the flag that totally gloss over the history of it in favour of being proud of some arbitrary factors about your life. It makes a shitty monument to your family history as it hardly represents the individuals fighting under it according to the tons of people who keep claiming that Confederate fighters weren't all massive racists and were merely fighting for their towns. People removing this flag from things is a total non-issue. People are finally seeing the flag for it's actual historic context rather than the really recent "pride" context, and are deciding to not endorse such a context by removing it from things they own or disallowing the flying of it on their property. Is it the solution to the massively racist shitstain that shot that church up and his ideals? Not exactly. But it's a sign that society is changing to not accept racist ideology even in "passive" senses, and that's progress. (also for those claiming that this is "removing history" or whatever. it's not, people still know the history of the flag and will continue to know the history of the flag. people are just opting to not endorse such history by flying the fucking thing)[/QUOTE] What makes the recent additions to the flag's meaning less legitimate than the older meaning? Like if the flag was repurposed as a southern symbol rather than a symbol for slavery how is that a bad thing?
Call me when the government starts arresting people for flying the flag. Companies are allowed to do whatever they want - you're allowed to complain about it, but I keep seeing people say "why doesn't the government just ban it" as if they're somehow being denied their first amendment rights. TV Land, eBay, Walmart, Amazon, Apple - they are all exercising their first amendment rights to not show it. If you want to watch the Dukes of Hazzard, don't do it on TV Land. Don't buy a confederate flag off of eBay or from Walmart. They've decided, as companies, that the lost revenue from not selling a product outweighs the negative press they might [I]possibly[/I] get for selling that product. I think the companies are stupid as fuck and over-reacting for doing it, just like Target Australia was when they banned GTA5 or like Steam was when they (temporarily) banned Hatred, but the people here arguing that it's some sort of censorship or some sort of violation of the consumer's first amendment rights are sensationalist and delusional. Just buy the product somewhere else - now those companies have lost your business. It hurts them anyways. Simple as that.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48126838]What "positive context" has the flag actually got though? "Southern pride"? "Heritage"? Neither of those were what the flag stood for in it's inception, they aren't what the flags history actually reflect. A flag flown by a group of (for lack of a better term) traitors to their country, fighting for the ability to avoid changing their laws (to stop owning other humans for one). Any "positive contexts" it has are all incredibly recent additions to the "meaning" of the flag that totally gloss over the history of it in favour of being proud of some arbitrary factors about your life. It makes a shitty monument to your family history as it hardly represents the individuals fighting under it according to the tons of people who keep claiming that Confederate fighters weren't all massive racists and were merely fighting for their towns. People removing this flag from things is a total non-issue. People are finally seeing the flag for it's actual historic context rather than the really recent "pride" context, and are deciding to not endorse such a context by removing it from things they own or disallowing the flying of it on their property. Is it the solution to the massively racist shitstain that shot that church up and his ideals? Not exactly. But it's a sign that society is changing to not accept racist ideology even in "passive" senses, and that's progress. (also for those claiming that this is "removing history" or whatever. it's not, people still know the history of the flag and will continue to know the history of the flag. people are just opting to not endorse such history by flying the fucking thing)[/QUOTE] It's inception was as the battle flag of robert e lee, a man who detested slavery, you might want to clarify instead of simply expecting context to magically fit your narrative. Looks you didn't bother to read the information OvB provided, maybe you should.
[QUOTE=angelangel;48126022]at this point why don't the US just pull a germany and ban it entirely[/QUOTE] Unconstitutional. That's suppression of the right to express yourself freely.
[QUOTE=Kljunas;48128460]What makes the recent additions to the flag's meaning less legitimate than the older meaning? Like if the flag was repurposed as a southern symbol rather than a symbol for slavery how is that a bad thing?[/QUOTE] Don't bother, in every thread I asked this question in it was thoroughly ignored. According to people like him it's totally possible for the CSA flag's meaning to worsen, after all they always bring up that the KKK used it, arguing that it is thus racist. However it's unthinkable to them that the opposite could happen. Whatever can be used to tarnish its image is immediately added on top of its history, effectively making it into some sort of hyper-racist chimera according to them, but whenever people try to reclaim it to represent something positive suddenly it's a fixed, set in stone object which has always had its racist connotations. It's amazing how people can come up with such double standards. No matter how you put it, it [i]is[/I] retarded to be outraged about an abstract geometrical shape. It's perfectly reasonable to be upset about what it represents according to you but it's not the symbol that's the issue. But that's what people think when complaining about this fucking flag, otherwise they'd be okay with people reclaiming it for more positive purposes like it's been done countless times before.
[QUOTE=cxcxxxxx;48096927]When do we realize banning any sort of flag will do nothing at all to adress any issues? Oh damn they removed the duke boys, guess its time to reconsider my entire viewpoint on race relations and equality! But hey, [B]I guess its easier to pretend to be progressive, than actually make progress[/B].[/QUOTE] The truth hurts so much. "Some fucking insane guy killed black people after posing with a confederate flag, what do we do?" "Ban the flag." "Some fucking insane guy stabbed someone after listening to metal music, what do we do?" "Ban metal." "Some fucking insane guy shot a bunch of people, what do we do?" "Ban guns." There must be a common element here that's right under my nose but my faux-progressive purple-haired ass can't see it. Fuck it, let's just ban everything so we can all be safe in our hugboxes. [QUOTE=hexpunK;48126838]What "positive context" has the flag actually got though? "Southern pride"? "Heritage"? Neither of those were what the flag stood for in it's inception, they aren't what the flags history actually reflect. A flag flown by a group of (for lack of a better term) traitors to their country, fighting for the ability to avoid changing their laws (to stop owning other humans for one). Any "positive contexts" it has are all incredibly recent additions to the "meaning" of the flag that totally gloss over the history of it in favour of being proud of some arbitrary factors about your life. It makes a shitty monument to your family history as it hardly represents the individuals fighting under it according to the tons of people who keep claiming that Confederate fighters weren't all massive racists and were merely fighting for their towns. People removing this flag from things is a total non-issue. People are finally seeing the flag for it's actual historic context rather than the really recent "pride" context, and are deciding to not endorse such a context by removing it from things they own or disallowing the flying of it on their property. Is it the solution to the massively racist shitstain that shot that church up and his ideals? Not exactly. But it's a sign that society is changing to not accept racist ideology even in "passive" senses, and that's progress. (also for those claiming that this is "removing history" or whatever. it's not, people still know the history of the flag and will continue to know the history of the flag. people are just opting to not endorse such history by flying the fucking thing)[/QUOTE] The original meaning and your own personal feelings are irrelevant (and also incredibly fallacious from an argumentative standpoint). The fact is some people associate with this flag and it has positive meaning for them. Would you be so quick to dismiss us Quebecois who fly our own flag under very similar circumstances? Because you better believe the natives (who in the past were oppressed by us in various ways) hate it. Other Canadians hate it too because to them, it represents an attack on Canada (and in the past they wouldn't be wrong). But it has different meaning today. According to your logic however, it should be banned. And I'm sorry but that's bullshit. On a different note, I really have to question the stupidity of making martyrs out of people hoisting Confederate flags. It's like all the "progressives" got up and said "Hey I have an idea: let's enflame the South's survival instinct again and start a whole new fight over a FUCKING FLAG". Why? Why the fuck are we fighting over a flag?
[QUOTE=CapellanCitizen;48115034]Ed: Like if there was a German show called like "Kaisers of Häzard" where Friederich and Hans Kaiser drive their souped-up Volkswagen beetle "Der Generalfeldmarschall Rommel" with a swastika flag on the roof, the show might not be racist but the undertones would still be there[/QUOTE] Make it happen please.
[QUOTE=OvB;48133824]Make it happen please.[/QUOTE] I've been thinking of this theoretical show since he made the post and I would subscribe to cable to watch this shit.
While we may never have Kaisers of Häzard, we'll always have that one episode of "Heil Honey, I'm Home".
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