• Louisiana lawmakers propose prayer to stop oil disaster
    110 replies, posted
[QUOTE=rosar0980;22774078]@GunFox Screw you. Prove there's no God. Prove there's no logic in our beliefs. It has been proven by many scientists that the univers couldn't have been created without some form of intervention of some kind. Hence, a god exists. --Sorry, derailed-- Back to topic. I like the idea. We have taken separation of church and state and bastardised it to where we are nearly killing religion off all together. Praying got the constitution written in 13 weeks when they couldn't get a single word down for months. Prayer helped this country be created. Praying may just give these men, and maybe others, the wisdom and insight to fix this damned oil spill. I say they should go for it. --Dearil again-- And, @nullsquared, where do you get off bashing Christians? We acutally get things done. You damned Bhuddists, Muslims, Atheists, and wtfever else have ddone nothing to fix this. Go ask Allah or Bhuddah or Science to give you the intelligence and resources to clean this up and then we will talk. Christianity has done more than just wate time. Like I said to GunFox, we Christians created a country, wrote a governmental system in 13 weeks, and our prayer saved many men from being killed because God left a fog sitting to let George Washington and his men escape. How can anyone explain that? God's miracles are inexplicable. Another @GunFox God gave the Earth to man and Satan. He does NOT.....I don't know how to put it into words. I gues we have free will, and the Earth is man's. God will give people the wisdom, and help his children (yes you too) but not the planet becuase it is Satan's influence not his. He gives us the intelligence and ability to fix things and help others. The holocaust was satan's doing, noy God. God did not allow it to happen. He did, however, allow Hitler, the Nazi, and their supporters have their free will. CItations God Exitsts: [url]http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html[/url] [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6688917/[/url] The Revolutionary War. Examine the events, and explain thos with science.[/QUOTE] I think this will fit very nicely with this. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWVshkVF0SY[/media]
[QUOTE=Johnnsen;22773364]Let them do that, if they don't want to help in person. That should not be done instead of "real" approaches to solve the issue. Why do they even need press coverage for that? If they wanna do that, fine. Is it just so you can say "See, prayer did it" when somebody finds a way to fix it?[/QUOTE] That's how god always does things, through other people's research, ingenuity and hard work.
Y'know, I kinda did the same thing when the oil spill started, I prayed for BP to fix this huge problem as quick as possible, but to my surprise nothing happened... I wonder why :downs:
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;22784957]Y'know, I kinda did the same thing when the oil spill started, I prayed for BP to fix this huge problem as quick as possible, but to my surprise nothing happened... I wonder why :downs:[/QUOTE] Apparently God doesn't listen to half-assed prayers that, most likely, were never even made. My message to Sen. Robert Adley and BP is "God already gave us the stuff to clean up this shit, so lets shut up, take our dicks out of our ears, and clean up this oil spill, because God is facepalming at your and BP's inaction despite having everything you'd ever need basically laid out on a diamond platter for you!"
[QUOTE=Falineir;22786971]Apparently God doesn't listen to half-assed prayers that, most likely, were never even made. My message to Sen. Robert Adley and BP is "God already gave us the stuff to clean up this shit, so lets shut up, take our dicks out of our ears, and clean up this oil spill, because God is facepalming at your and BP's inaction despite having everything you'd ever need basically laid out on a diamond platter for you!"[/QUOTE] Of course god gave it to us. He also gave us the ability to produce faulty equipment to siphon and store oil in, inevitably creating a massive environmental disaster on his beautiful planet. Or is it only the positive things he's responsible for?
This thread really branched didn't it?
[QUOTE=Panda X;22788326]This thread really branched didn't it?[/QUOTE] Let it, it's one of the few threads mentioning religion that doesn't turn into an all out war in the first page, I like it.
[quote]"Thus far efforts made by mortals to try to solve the crisis have been to no avail,"[/quote] He's right! Hey Odin, help please.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22788745]He's right! Hey Odin, help please.[/QUOTE] He's too busy having sex with everything.
Conservative Christians vs. Angsty Atheists. There will be no survivors.
"He helps those who help themselves" AKA get off your knees, unclasp your hands and keep working. [sp]this is coming from a Christian by the way[/sp]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22778761]Yeah, they're just the people chosen by Louisianians to represent them.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they all got a 100% vote.
I find it pathetic and stupid when the government officials of a world superpower decide that prayer is a better solution to fixing a massive disaster than science and technology.
Let them be. They aren't oil experts, so its the next best thing.
Here's an idea, find a way to fix it, then thank god you had the resources and equipment available to you to have actually been able to do that.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22775054]He doesn't make a good point. In fact I specifically stated that we weren't going down that path. We're going down the "You worship an evil god" path. You have devoted your entire life to serving a massively powerful malevolent being. Whom you serve purely out of fear and sheer cowardice.[/QUOTE] You're no better than religious rednecks, just in the other direction. You guys' knowledge of religion mostly origins from your knowledge of the general American religious nuts' views, which would be considered late by at least a hundred years in Europe. Guess what? My family is religious. Yet no one ever had doubts that Evolution is true. No one insists that the universe formed exactly how it's written in the Bible. No one cowers in fear from God. No one sits on their ass praying to God, waiting for the roasted pigeon to fly in their mouths. (If you know where this originates from, you know classical culture.) We just live our live like everyone else. Strangely, in Europe, there has never been problems with Evolution vs. Religion since the middle of the 19th century. To me, it proves nothing but that European churches are far more tolerant and intelligent. maybe it's because back in the day, hardcore religious groups were the first to go to the new World, who knows...
[QUOTE=CaLeB-;22790274]Yeah, they all got a 100% vote.[/QUOTE] They got a majority vote. [editline]09:19AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Géza!;22793686]You're no better than religious rednecks, just in the other direction.[/QUOTE] oh shit your right telling someone off on the internet is exactly like actively trying to fight against advancement in science and human rights [editline]09:21AM[/editline] [QUOTE=evilweazel;22789292]"He helps those who help themselves" AKA get off your knees, unclasp your hands and keep working. [sp]this is coming from a Christian by the way[/sp][/QUOTE] Fuck that, God isn't helping you. [I]I[/I] am. Help yourself and I'll help you. See, when you start doing things to enact positive change, and positive change occurs, that shit's all because of me.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;22790634]I find it pathetic and stupid when the government officials of a world superpower decide that prayer is a better solution to fixing a massive disaster than science and technology.[/QUOTE] Yet they have the nerve to talk about the Middle East, saying their rules and regulations based on their beliefs are "barbaric"... pfffft :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22793724] oh shit your right telling someone off on the internet is exactly like actively trying to fight against advancement in science and human rights [/QUOTE] Of course religious rednecks are way stupider, thus more aggressive and "active". I didn't mean it on a physical level. More like, on the level of tolerance. Bashing religious tards for their lack of tolerance rightfully, while displaying the same level of intolerance towards religious people who aren't rednecks, neither tards, is nothing but hypocrisy.
[QUOTE=Géza!;22793799]Of course religious rednecks are way stupider, thus more aggressive and "active". I didn't mean it on a physical level. More like, on the level of tolerance. Bashing religious tards for their lack of tolerance rightfully, while displaying the same level of intolerance towards religious people who aren't rednecks, neither tards, is nothing but hypocrisy.[/QUOTE] yes intolerance because calling someone stupid on a message board = INJUST INTOLERANCE i mean i know he's not campaigning against the rights of any religious poeple nor would he ever say they couldn't believe what they want, but saying someone is stupid is like nazism
[QUOTE=Géza!;22793686] Guess what? My family is religious. Yet no one ever had doubts that Evolution is true. No one insists that the universe formed exactly how it's written in the Bible. No one cowers in fear from God. No one sits on their ass praying to God, waiting for the roasted pigeon to fly in their mouths. (If you know where this originates from, you know classical culture.) We just live our live like everyone else. Strangely, in Europe, there has never been problems with Evolution vs. Religion since the middle of the 19th century. To me, it proves nothing but that European churches are far more tolerant and intelligent. maybe it's because back in the day, hardcore religious groups were the first to go to the new World, who knows...[/QUOTE] Well you obviously aren't Christian or adhere to any major religion, which is great. My problem with religion is when people take everything as being true. When you are raised being told it is true, despite it obviously not making any sort of logical sense, it actually causes a breakdown in your logic center. Things that normally would trigger the "hey this doesn't really add up" voice in the back of your head ceases to function properly because the brain has been trained to accept things that defy basic logic. If you SIDESTEP that and adopt a policy of "Fuck the text, I'm just going to live the best life I can based on what I believe to be truly right", then, regardless of your belief in god or not, you are (probably) an awesome person and I have zero problem with you or your belief system. My problem isn't so much with the belief itself, though I will use it as a weapon in a debate, as it is with organized religion itself. As an American I live in a Republic where everyone of a certain age has a right to vote. Which is a huge problem when many of them believe a giant invisible man in the sky is going to get very very angry if two men get married because a two thousand year old book told them so in an obscure passage.
I love you GunFox.
Yep, or actually do something about the giant fucking spill.
[QUOTE=Géza!;22793799]Of course religious rednecks are way stupider, thus more aggressive and "active". I didn't mean it on a physical level. More like, on the level of tolerance. Bashing religious tards for their lack of tolerance rightfully, while displaying the same level of intolerance towards religious people who aren't rednecks, neither tards, is nothing but hypocrisy.[/QUOTE] I refuse to apologize for being intolerant of religious backed intolerance of the multitude of issues they find to be distasteful. When two people who love each other are denied the right to get married and enjoy the same legal rights as a married couple, I have a problem. When a teenage girl is raped and refused the right to get an abortion because she is healthy enough to give birth, I have a problem. When a child is dying of an autoimmune disorder and is refused access to medical treatments in the trial phase employing embryonic stem cells from an embryo that is going to be buried or incinerated anyways, I have a problem. When lawmakers try to pass laws forcing that creationism be taught in SCIENCE class despite a total and complete lack of evidence supporting the theory, I have a problem. When the leader of one of the largest religious factions on the planet tells people in a continent crippled by AIDS and superstition already not to use condoms, I have a problem. When people board a plane, take it over with box cutters, and then slam it into the side of a building, killing THOUSANDS because they believe they will be forever rewarded and martyrs, I HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22782495]So then you deny free will. Which in turn makes everyone a slave. Which in turn makes him evil again. Or we could go another route and say that the need for charity or the end of the holocaust in the first place is proof that he is evil. As an all powerful being it is more than within his power to ensure that nobody suffers.[/QUOTE] I'm not denying free will. You started that. You're just making up your own terms and defining God by that.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;22796375]I'm not denying free will. You started that. You're just making up your own terms and defining God by that.[/QUOTE] No I'm cruising with the normal accepted "god is all powerful" deal. In which case he can see the future, or rather is omnipotent and omniscient and extends throughout time so therefor the future and the past are not really concepts for such a being, and still allowed it to happen. The evidence is clear, there are only one of three possible personalities for god based on the events which have transpired over human history: 1) He is malevolent. The world is an extremely brutal place. It has taken us thousands upon thousands of years to reach our current level of relative safety and luxury. Even now the world remains brutal. So one could suggest that this is intentional. That the world that he supposedly created here is supposed to be filled with evil. Given that he is all powerful and has a "plan", he would have foreseen this evil and brutality at the dawn of time and would have changed things if he was actually a good entity. 2) He is apathetic or is a neutral entity. He doesn't care. He made everything and left or watches simply because he is amused or interested or has nothing better to do. Theoretically one could still play this off as being evil. Watching someone get raped and doing nothing to stop it, despite being one hundred percent sure of being able to prevent it, is an evil act. So really this could be pushed into number 1. 3) He is incapable. He can't help. Then why worship him? It's not like this is a new argument at all. [img]http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9154/epicurusquote.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=The golden;22787905]Religion is so pathetic it's almost hilarious.[/QUOTE] Well eventually you would cone to think that because I mean it's only the nuts that make it on the news but believe it or not most religious people aren't at all like them.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;22800418]Well eventually you would cone to think that because I mean it's only the nuts that make it on the news but believe it or not most religious people aren't at all like them.[/QUOTE] That'd be nice to believe if you didn't encounter these nuts on a regular basis.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22796574]No I'm cruising with the normal accepted "god is all powerful" deal. In which case he can see the future, or rather is omnipotent and omniscient and extends throughout time so therefor the future and the past are not really concepts for such a being, and still allowed it to happen.[/quote] God wanted us to love him DESPITE that stuff happening. [quote]The evidence is clear, there are only one of three possible personalities for god based on the events which have transpired over human history:[/quote] Yeah, okay. [quote]1) He is malevolent. The world is an extremely brutal place. It has taken us thousands upon thousands of years to reach our current level of relative safety and luxury. Even now the world remains brutal. So one could suggest that this is intentional. That the world that he supposedly created here is supposed to be filled with evil. Given that he is all powerful and has a "plan", he would have foreseen this evil and brutality at the dawn of time and would have changed things if he was actually a good entity. 2) He is apathetic or is a neutral entity. He doesn't care. He made everything and left or watches simply because he is amused or interested or has nothing better to do. Theoretically one could still play this off as being evil. Watching someone get raped and doing nothing to stop it, despite being one hundred percent sure of being able to prevent it, is an evil act. So really this could be pushed into number 1.[/quote] Both have parts that are half-true. God saw the rise of evil, knew he could stop it, but didn't. But not for the reasons you seem to think. You see, God wanted us to love him through free choice, free will. Tell me, is it really a free choice when the question is leading and there really aren't many or any other options. That's not free will, that's the equivilient to there being a one-party system. Choice A, or.... Choice A! Big choice, huh. You see, we are 100% capable of ending this oil spill within the next week. Why? We have the technology and resources to build what we need to do it. What's the problem, then? We're constrained by something that is 100% scientifically proven to be a complete fabrication of the human mind... Money. God doesn't give two shits about money. Money is the only thing keeping those rape victims from carrying around MP5's. Money is the only thing keeping anybody from developing an impregnable ICBM shield then distributing it all over the world, ending the threat of Nuclear war, then building perfect fusion plants, ending world energy, hunger and hostility crises. Yes, it is money's fault all these things are happening. Did God forsee the invention of money? Yes, and he facepalmed, grumbling "It's their choice..." As money began so did 'unsolvable problems'. How long does it take for humanity to build a starship with enough firepower or otherwise to take out an earth-killer asteroid without the constraints of money? Not very long. Not as long as it would with people saying "I'm not getting paid as much so I'm not really motivated." In turn, this is the same problem facing the oil spill effort. An atheist problem is preventing an atheist solution. [quote]3) He is incapable. He can't help. Then why worship him?[/quote] No. [quote]It's not like this is a new argument at all. [img]http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/9154/epicurusquote.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Already countered all that.
[QUOTE=Best4bond;22774204]So... When will church and state be separated?[/QUOTE] Nice reading. Hey guys, the government is forcing everyone to pray and if you don't you get sent to a concentration camp.
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