[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649019]They're calling Russia's bluff with this. I don't expect it to pass but they're going to show Russia that if they don't play ball they'll impose their own form of sanctions against them.[/QUOTE]
And then Russia will sanction them right back.
But with tanks.
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;45649184]Then if Europe isn't obligated to protect Ukraine's interests then Ukraine isn't obligated to protect that pipeline. You can't have your cake and eat it too.[/QUOTE]
They don't have to protect it, Russians aren't going to shoot themselves into the leg by destroying it. Ukraine is holding Russian-European investment hostage.
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
This is literally extortion on national level. I cannot fathom how can anybody consider this to be a valid political move.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45649221]There's a crucial difference between voluntary help and work you have agreed and been paid to do.[/QUOTE]And that money isn't going to mean much to Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't exist in a year.
[QUOTE=Monkah;45649240]And that money isn't going to mean much to Ukraine if Ukraine doesn't exist in a year.[/QUOTE]
Don't be completely ridiculous. The separatists are losing ground every day.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45649228]They don't have to protect it, Russians aren't going to shoot themselves into the leg by destroying it. Ukraine is holding Russian-European investment hostage.
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
This is literally extortion on national level. I cannot fathom how can anybody consider this to be a valid political move.[/QUOTE]
It's on their land, they aren't getting anything from it, they have to maintain it, they have to plan around it.
Since Russia is attacking them and the rest of Europe is totally chill with Ukraine collapsing and burning to the ground [I]as long as the pipeline remains untouched[/I], I think they're perfectly within their rights to tear it down. If Europe gave more than a token shit about the crisis Ukraine is in, and sent in not even military support necessarily - but humanitarian aid, or maybe peacekeeping forces to help Ukrainian police secure their own cities and restore order - then I'd question this move. As it is? No, Europe pretty much earned this one.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45649245]Don't be completely ridiculous. The separatists are losing ground every day.[/QUOTE]I'm more-so referring towards Russia-- the separatists are screwed.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45649228]This is literally extortion on national level. I cannot fathom how can anybody consider this to be a valid political move.[/QUOTE]
Russia considered provoking a rebellion and occupy Crimea and actually did it, that's something, why is this so shocking?
[QUOTE=Grenadiac;45649184]Then if Europe isn't obligated to protect Ukraine's interests then Ukraine isn't obligated to protect that pipeline. You can't have your cake and eat it too.[/QUOTE]
This saying has always confused me. What kind of place says that you can't eat the cake you own? That's fucking bizarre.
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
/offtopic
[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;45649434]This saying has always confused me. What kind of place says that you can't eat the cake you own? That's fucking bizarre.
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
/offtopic[/QUOTE]
You won't have the cake after you've eaten it, what's so complex about it ? :v:
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;45648952]Wow, way to alienate basically everyone who supports you in one glorious act of self-destruction.
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
Except Europe needs what's inside those pipelines and Ukraine has no right to interfere with any of that.[/QUOTE]
Ukraine isn't allowed to shut down a pipeline [B]THAT GOES THROUGH ITS OWN TERRITORY.[/B]
The fuck are you talking about!?
Europe have been fucking useless in this entire affair, we deserve what we get if Ukraine decides to stop indirectly supporting the shitlords trying to invade them by getting rid of that big moneymaking machine that is actually on their land.
It's a complete disgrace how we've let Russia walk all over Ukraine.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649468]A
And yet.. the US is still sending them aid, with no obligations what so ever. Maybe Europe needs to think of Ukraine as less "lol the country that the gas pipeline flows through" and more "the country that will fuck us royally if we don't start at least making an actual effort".
The "sanctions" the EU and the US have imposed are a fucking sham, and everyone, including the Ukrainians, are fully aware of it. They're designed to say "rawr, we're scary, please don't ignore us" without actually inflicting true harm.[/QUOTE]
The Sanctions have actually done [B]a ton[/B] of damage to the already fragile Russian economy.
[QUOTE=Swilly;45649607]The Sanctions have actually done [B]a ton[/B] of damage to the already fragile Russian economy.[/QUOTE]
And yet, there are still massing Russian forces by Ukraine's borders and Russia still owns Crimea.
Good job.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649613]And it's only hurt the Russian people. If you want Russia to back off you have to hurt their fat cats, not their average joe's.[/QUOTE]
thats why they're targeted at oligarchs and their businesses?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45649614]And yet, there are still massing Russian forces by Ukraine's borders and Russia still owns Crimea.
Good job.[/QUOTE]
Sanctions aren't designed to force someone to retreat, its meant to slow or halt any further actions they might pull because it destabilizes their economy.
It was never meant to force someone back, its never [B]BEEN[/B] used like that. Why would it suddenly change in definition and be used as an attack. Its a defensive measure.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;45649614]And yet, there are still massing Russian forces by Ukraine's borders and Russia still owns Crimea.
Good job.[/QUOTE]
"waa sanctions didn't fix everything over night"
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649635]That's why Russia still owns Crimea and still has troops massed on the border?[/QUOTE]
"waa sanctions didn't fix everything over night"
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649613]And it's only hurt the Russian people. If you want Russia to back off you have to hurt their fat cats, not their average joe's.[/QUOTE]
I guess you missed the report that the Russian oligarchs are currently bleeding money out every pore of their human body.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649660]I guess you missed the part where Russia still shelled a Ukrainian army encampment, guess those sanctions aren't "slowing down" anyone.[/QUOTE]
A.They haven't invaded yet.
B.Putin is now playing defensive both politically and militarily.
C.The Ukrainian military is actually taking back the east, so the sanctions did what they were supposed to.
D.Stop acting like results have to be immediate, going in with your head first is what causes massive wars and international incidents.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649660]I guess you missed the part where Russia still shelled a Ukrainian army encampment, guess those sanctions aren't "slowing down" anyone.[/QUOTE]
oh dear the Ukrainian conflict is complicated! hold the fucking presses
Have you ever noticed that Russia has turned into a paper tiger over this conflict? Remember all the bluster and rhetoric that was coming out of Moscow about Ukraine, now they're all quiet and sheepish.
You go ahead and explain to the European and American peoples that we're going to be deploying troops into Ukrainian territory.
Go ahead and explain it to the Russians, lets see how long the peace fucking lasts.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649635]That's why Russia still owns Crimea and still has troops massed on the border?
Europe did Ukrainians a massive dis-service not doing a damned thing when Russia took Crimea, it seems only fair that the Ukrainians stop giving a shit about "the rest of Europe", when "the rest of Europe" didn't give a real shit about them.[/QUOTE]
What do you want Europe to do? Go to war with Russia?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;45649697]What do you want Europe to do? Go to war with Russia?[/QUOTE]
And by Europe, we mean the United States doing the heavy lifting.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649717]And yet no-one enacted sanctions until the rebellion had taken a fuckton of land, when Russia invaded Crimea everyone said "whaaa pls stop, we send angry letter". The Ukrainians have every right to feel betrayed.
The invasion started on 26FEB14, it took until 26JUL14 for Europe to do a damn thing, 5 months is a long ass time to be essentially on your own.[/QUOTE]
Would you rather everyone just rushed into another major European war? [I]Because that was soo fucking great the last two times[/I].
Stop being so naive.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649717]And yet no-one enacted sanctions until the rebellion had taken a fuckton of land, when Russia invaded Crimea everyone said "whaaa pls stop, we send angry letter". The Ukrainians have every right to feel betrayed.
The invasion started on 26FEB14, it took until 26JUL14 for Europe to do a damn thing, 5 months is a long ass time to be essentially on your own.[/QUOTE]
Like I fucking said, [B]you have to take your god damn time with a Nuclear Armed Nation.[/B]
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45648669]I wish we could just finally build Canadian nuclear reactors everywhere and flip all of these guys off for once and ever.[/QUOTE]
I hate posts like these because I'm really fucking afraid of losing a job before I'm even out of the university.
[QUOTE=maxumym;45649748]I hate posts like these because I'm really fucking afraid of losing a job before I'm even out of the university.[/QUOTE]
To be far, ya'll have a really fuck ass government. I mean, you make the United States Government look nice and welcoming.
[editline]10th August 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45649750]Because they're really going to use nuclear weapons at all. Fuck no they aren't. Europe could have sent peace keeping forces, or enacted sanctions a hell of a lot sooner, instead there was "angry letter x 30" and only when the rebels started making severe gains did Europe/the US act. That's a fucking shame and you know it as well as I do.[/QUOTE]
Its not a fucking shame because the Ukraine didn't ask for boots on the ground, they asked for aid. Food, ammo, other shit, not boots on the ground. They asked for political and global back up and we provided for them that backup.
[B]Why does everyone think the vague term 'aid' means boots on the ground!?[/B]
[QUOTE=Swilly;45649756]To be far, ya'll have a really fuck ass government. I mean, you make the United States Government look nice and welcoming.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I never said I like it here :v: Immigration is my primary goal in life so far.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45649094]Uh I have [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/25/european-union-sanctions-russia_n_5622466.html]no fucking clue[/url][/QUOTE]
And while you are doing these half-assed sanctions, the only country willingly giving Ukraine supplies is Canada.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;45649806]And while you are doing these half-assed sanctions, the only country willingly giving Ukraine supplies is Canada.[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking kidding me...
The United States military has been giving rations for the Ukrainian Military which is freeing up a ton of funds for the Ukrainian military.
[QUOTE=Swilly;45649644]I guess you missed the report that the Russian oligarchs are currently bleeding money out every pore of their human body.[/QUOTE]
You are correct. Now, riddle me this:
They are losing money. Ukraine controls one of the largest sources of revenue. Do you think they are just going to sit around and leave Ukraine in control of it, ESPECIALLY when Ukraine is threatening to shut it off? They will protect that revenue stream AT ALL COSTS. You've now left Russia desperate and Ukraine is STILL unprotected. Congratulations, you've just made the situation worse.
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