• Motorola Wins Europe-Wide Sales Ban Against iOS Devices
    101 replies, posted
[QUOTE=garychencool;33643865]Sales ban? In all of Europe? Forever? Lol. For Apple to cover the loss, they will have to expand even more into Asia and Africa :v:[/QUOTE] The iPurifier.
[QUOTE=wingless;33655006]Aaaaaaa Stop fighting. It's going from a fucking competition to something close to a faschist dictatorship. "You can't have that phone because we didn't like what the creator did, have this one instead!" It's fucking over the customer, as much as I hate Apple, it's out of hand and fucking dumb.[/QUOTE] So you are okay with having intellectual property stolen and a profit made out of it? The difference between this lawsuit and Apples is that the patent isn't some bullshit on the thickness of a tablet or something, its on a concept that Motorola did invent and does license under frand terms. Apple refused to acknowledge that the patent was valid and want to continue to argue that it was invalid with an intention to not have to pay for previous infringements so they lost that case.
Getting competition banned in another country? If Apple did this you'd all be outraged, but it's Motorola which you guys are a fan of so it's OK.
[QUOTE=Ninja Duck;33655924]Getting competition banned in another country? If Apple did this you'd all be outraged, but it's Motorola which you guys are a fan of so it's OK.[/QUOTE] See the post above you.
[QUOTE=Ninja Duck;33655924]Getting competition banned in another country? If Apple did this you'd all be outraged, but it's Motorola which you guys are a fan of so it's OK.[/QUOTE] No, this was genuine technology that was developed by Moterola. It's not "a rounded rectangle with a touchscreen" that they're suing over, it's "this particular communication system that we developed and license out to others". It's what patents [b]should[/b] be used to protect - a companies systems, as opposed to a vague "metal box with glass screen".
Laugh all you want you retards, this is almost the same as censorship and other useless banning shit you see in, for instance, China and Australia. Seriously, because of Motorola and because I live in EUROPE I won't be able to buy ANY iOS product. I do not understand exactly how [B]IS THIS NORMAL[/B]? Put your IDIOTIC hate for Apple aside just for one moment, these kinds of events shouldn't be allowed.
[QUOTE=Jelly;33642402]Apple did exactly what all the other companies did. For some stupid reason Facepunch as a collective whole seems to have this idea that everything Apple does is wrong even if another company did the same.[/QUOTE] I've been saying this for weeks too, Jelly. I'm glad to see I'm not alone in this.
[QUOTE=Paravin;33657286]Laugh all you want you retards, this is almost the same as censorship and other useless banning shit you see in, for instance, China and Australia. Seriously, because of Motorola and because I live in EUROPE I won't be able to buy ANY iOS product. I do not understand exactly how [B]IS THIS NORMAL[/B]? Put your IDIOTIC hate for Apple aside just for one moment, these kinds of events shouldn't be allowed.[/QUOTE] Its not censorship, its stopping someone from selling a product that infringes upon someone's IP rights. Rights that they offered to lease to Apple (under frand terms) but they refused to accept. If Apple want to play this game they have to accept that other people out there who own patents to concepts they actually invented and are crucial to what Apple does.
[QUOTE=Paravin;33657286]Laugh all you want you retards, this is almost the same as censorship and other useless banning shit you see in, for instance, China and Australia. Seriously, because of Motorola and because I live in EUROPE I won't be able to buy ANY iOS product. I do not understand exactly how [B]IS THIS NORMAL[/B]? Put your IDIOTIC hate for Apple aside just for one moment, these kinds of events shouldn't be allowed.[/QUOTE]Fucking agree. I want to buy an iphone when I save up but if the EU ban passes I won't be able to do it easily. These patent wars hurt customers the most. Its not like now I will change my mind and buy a motorola or samsung.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33655982]No, this was genuine technology that was developed by Moterola. It's not "a rounded rectangle with a touchscreen" that they're suing over, it's "this particular communication system that we developed and license out to others". It's what patents [b]should[/b] be used to protect - a companies systems, as opposed to a vague "metal box with glass screen".[/QUOTE] You honestly don't know specifically what the patent is, you just heard what it was described as in court. Chances are, there are a lot more companies using whatever technology that patent is describing. This happens all the time in all areas of business. Companies will hold a patent that is in general use by tons of other companies and not sue. Why? Because patents are [b]defensive[/b] measures. Anyone in business will tell you this. Is it no coincidence to anyone that the manufacturer of the "Droid" line would want to halt production of their main competition? 10 Bucks says that every other cell phone manufacturer uses this same method. Motorola just enforced their patent on Apple because they were competition and a threat. And yes, Apple is getting a taste of its own medicine, but FP should honestly be just as mad about this as anything else, it is patent abuse at its finest.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657536]You honestly don't know specifically what the patent is, you just heard what it was described as in court. Chances are, there are a lot more companies using whatever technology that patent is describing. This happens all the time in all areas of business. Companies will hold a patent that is in general use by tons of other companies and not sue. Why? Because patents are [B]defensive[/B] measures. Anyone in business will tell you this. Is it no coincidence to anyone that the manufacturer of the "Droid" line would want to halt production of their main competition? 10 Bucks says that every other cell phone manufacturer uses this same method. Motorola just enforced their patent on Apple because they were competition and a threat. And yes, Apple is getting a taste of its own medicine, but FP should honestly be just as mad about this as anything else, it is patent abuse at its finest.[/QUOTE] Motorola licence this to anyone (they are actually legally obliged to) who wants it using frand terms, apart from Apple who argued in court that its their patent. It it not patent abuse, Apple are infringing a legitimate patent.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33655982]No, this was genuine technology that was developed by Moterola. It's not "a rounded rectangle with a touchscreen" that they're suing over, it's "this particular communication system that we developed and license out to others". It's what patents [b]should[/b] be used to protect - a companies systems, as opposed to a vague "metal box with glass screen".[/QUOTE] [quote]method for performing a countdown function during a mobile-originated transfer for a packet radio system[/quote] I am sorry but that does not sound like it's original or patent worthy tech to me.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33657654]I am sorry but that does not sound like it's original or patent worthy tech to me.[/QUOTE] Perhaps you should read the patent. It is pretty much the system that mobile phones use for communicating over the air. [url]http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20030319&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=1010336B1&KC=B1[/url]
[QUOTE=Jsm;33657642]Motorola licence this to anyone (they are actually legally obliged to) who wants it using frand terms, apart from Apple who argued in court that its their patent. It it not patent abuse, Apple are infringing a legitimate patent.[/QUOTE] The patent sounds like a trivial way of handling data. I bet you money that the other companies using it, do not have a license to use it, they just do. I am honestly just guessing, but my guess is no better than yours and your guess is no better than mine. I'm interested in seeing the actual patent that has been infringed upon.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657536]You honestly don't know specifically what the patent is, you just heard what it was described as in court. Chances are, there are a lot more companies using whatever technology that patent is describing. This happens all the time in all areas of business. Companies will hold a patent that is in general use by tons of other companies and not sue. Why? Because patents are [b]defensive[/b] measures. Anyone in business will tell you this. <snip> FP should honestly be just as mad about this as anything else, it is patent abuse at its finest. [/QUOTE] Actually, patents are a cash cow as well as defensive measures. Companies invent something, patent it, and then license it out to other companies for the cash. Apple were refusing to buy a patent licensing agreement that would have let them use the specific technology (Moterola was offering to sell them one beforehand, but they refused) and used it without permission of the patent holder, so Moterola sued. The reason that they've not sued any other company is that the other companies have made deals (either money or use of a different patent) in exchange for the right to use something that's patented. This is proper use of the patent system - to actually protect a system that Moterola designed. It's not the patents that Apple are using, which are related to the shape, form factor and colours of a black plastic, glass and aluminium device. [QUOTE=Funcoot;33657696]I'm interested in seeing the actual patent that has been infringed upon.[/QUOTE] Here ya go. [url]http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20030319&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=1010336B1&KC=B1[/url]
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657696]The patent sounds like a trivial way of handling data. I bet you money that the other companies using it, do not have a license to use it, they just do. I am honestly just guessing, but my guess is no better than yours and your guess is no better than mine. I'm interested in seeing the actual patent that has been infringed upon.[/QUOTE] Linked in the above post but here it is again [url]http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20030319&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=1010336B1&KC=B1[/url] I am trying to find out if they do actually licence it to other people, I have seen talk of it but no actual proof of it.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657696]The patent sounds like a trivial way of handling data.[/QUOTE] Yeah how trivial, functionality which makes a mobile phone actually possible. Why should this even be patented, its so [I]simple[/I] to transmit wireless data over miles quickly with no degredation.
[QUOTE=Zet;33652933]Because Apple fucking over consumers is totally okay.[/QUOTE] and motorola doing the exact same thing is ok too I take it
[QUOTE=Fatal-Error;33657734]Yeah how trivial, functionality which makes a mobile phone actually possible. Why should this even be patented, its so [I]simple[/I] to transmit wireless data over miles quickly with no degredation.[/QUOTE] You're misunderstanding me.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657773]You're misunderstanding me.[/QUOTE] So why don't you elaborate to clear up this misunderstanding?
[QUOTE=thisispain;33650137]you guys are actually applauding corporations fucking over the consumer? wow[/QUOTE] um, pain you're supporting the bigger corporation that's actually doing the bad stuff right now how is it the corporations fucking over the consumer when the legal system made this decision if for example you argue that they used their power to manipulate the court or something why wouldn't Apple have done the same thing when they are significantly more powerful your quarrel is with the justice system, not Motorola
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33657827]So why don't you elaborate to clear up this misunderstanding?[/QUOTE] If the use of this technology is so common among mobile phone manufacturers and no one is licensing the patent, then the enforcement against Apple, is strictly because Apple is in direct competition with Motorola. Now, if it isn't that way, and everyone is purchasing the license and Apple is not, that is a completely different story. I am honestly guessing the first. What reason would Apple have to not purchase the license?
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657868]What reason would Apple have to not purchase the license?[/QUOTE] Just gonna throw this out here, but I think they really like money.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;33657832]um, pain you're supporting the bigger corporation that's actually doing the bad stuff right now how is it the corporations fucking over the consumer when the legal system made this decision if for example you argue that they used their power to manipulate the court or something why wouldn't Apple have done the same thing when they are significantly more powerful your quarrel is with the justice system, not Motorola[/QUOTE] Define "bigger". I am willing to bet Motorola technologies are being used by many more people than Apple's iphones and ipads. Motorola doesn't just do cell phones. You know they have contracts with governments, military, etc. [editline]10th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatal-Error;33657886]Just gonna throw this out here, but I think they really like money.[/QUOTE] Please do not ignore the entire first part of my argument. It is valid. Can we not agree on that? As I said, I could be wrong with the situation. As far, "they really like money." I really doubt that Apple, the 46th richest company on Earth, isn't cheap enough to not shell out the money for a illegitimate patent.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657868]If the use of this technology is so common among mobile phone manufacturers and no one is licensing the patent, then the enforcement against Apple, is strictly because Apple is in direct competition with Motorola. Now, if it isn't that way, and everyone is purchasing the license and Apple is not, that is a completely different story. I am honestly guessing the first. What reason would Apple have to not purchase the license?[/QUOTE] Moterola are legally obligated to sell the patent out under terms agreed to be fair, so Apple didn't buy it due to financial reasons, to maintain sky-high profit margins.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657900]Define "bigger". I am willing to bet Motorola technologies are being used by many more people than Apple's iphones and ipads. Motorola doesn't just do cell phones. You know they have contracts with governments, military, etc.[/QUOTE] I'm aware, my aunt worked there for a year. It actually is effectively two companies now, it recently split. Motorola Mobility's revenue is roughly a tenth of Apple's. I was talking about money because that pretty much is power.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;33657937]Moterola are legally obligated to sell the patent out under terms agreed to be fair, so Apple didn't buy it due to financial reasons, to maintain sky-high profit margins.[/QUOTE] You are obliged to sell, but people do not have to buy, and you do not have to enforce. This happens constantly in all areas of the market. You know how many datacenters would be going down if one guy decided to enforce his patent on how he has cable trays arranged?
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657900]Please do not ignore the entire first part of my argument. It is valid. Can we not agree on that? As I said, I could be wrong with the situation. As far, "they really like money." I really doubt that Apple, the 46th richest company on Earth, isn't cheap enough to not shell out the money for a illegitimate patent.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I agree with you on that part. But I don't think the patent is illegitimate, a piece of technology like that isnt easy to come up with.
[QUOTE=Funcoot;33657868] I am honestly guessing the first. What reason would Apple have to not purchase the license?[/QUOTE] They think the patent is invalid. "Apple had offered to pay a Frand-set fee going forward and was willing to pay a similar rate for past infringements. But it lost the case because it tried to retain the right to contest the validity of the patent with a view to past damages." [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16112259[/url]
from what I understand, if you don't enforce you lose the patent
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