• 'Gitmo is killing me': Inmate describes horror of being force-fed by tube
    147 replies, posted
[QUOTE=scout1;40293667]So PETA could be renamed the "World Animal Association." It doesn't make [B]a lick of fucking difference.[/B] They have no authority. There is no binding rule or regulation. They just said "Hey, this isn't cool." That is not a law. That is not even close to a law. And don't you strawman me on ethics when I tell you a law doesn't exist and you jump all over pretending it does so you can take a shot at something you don't like. [editline]15th April 2013[/editline] Show me where I said that.[/QUOTE] This is not about authority. This is about right or wrong. The one "strawmaning" here is you by trying to make the existence of a law against something an indicator for the ethical agreeability. I'm not strawmaning you, the topic is out of question, your opinion on it however tells me that you're a dick, nothing more nothing less. Have a nice day.
[QUOTE=Killuah;40293878]This is not about authority. This is about right or wrong. The one "stawmaning" here is you by trying to make the existence of a law against something an indicator for the ethical agreeability. I'm not stawmaning you, the topic is out of question, your opinion on it however tells me that you're a dick, nothing more nothing less. Have a nice day.[/QUOTE] Nobody has mentioned ethics but you. You have accused me of having a position and it being unethical. I said there wasn't a law. You keep insisting there is. [B]Show me the law.[/B]
I'm not insisting and this is not the debate club, you know very well what I mean and everyone who reads this sees it too.
[QUOTE=Killuah;40293999]I'm not insisting and this is not the debate club, you know very well what I mean and everyone who reads this sees it too.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you mean to say that I have advanced some position on how I feel about gitmo force feeding inmates. I haven't. [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293001&viewfull=1#post40293001]I said there wasn't a law[/url], and[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293523&viewfull=1#post40293523] you tried to say there was.[/url] [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293561&viewfull=1#post40293561]Twice.[/url] [B]SO WHERE IS THE LAW?[/B]
[QUOTE=scout1;40293926]Nobody has mentioned ethics but you. You have accused me of having a position and it being unethical. I said there wasn't a law. You keep insisting there is. [B]Show me the law.[/B][/QUOTE] What does it even matter if there is a law or not? It's just wrong.
[QUOTE=Rhenae;40294080]What does it even matter if there is a law or not? It's just wrong.[/QUOTE] The subjective morality of an action isn't a very compelling case for its current illegality. If you want to declare an action illegal (like I was responding to), [I]there actually needs to be a law against it.[/I]
[QUOTE=scout1;40294059]Yeah, you mean to say that I have advanced some position on how I feel about gitmo force feeding inmates. I haven't. [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293001&viewfull=1#post40293001]I said there wasn't a law[/url], and[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293523&viewfull=1#post40293523] you tried to say there was.[/url] [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293561&viewfull=1#post40293561]Twice.[/url] [B]SO WHERE IS THE LAW?[/B][/QUOTE] I didn't. It was a rhetoric device to show that you're using something being "illegal" or not as an indicator for the moral adny you didn't get it. Read it again in a sarcastic tone.
[QUOTE=scout1;40294117]The subjective morality of an action isn't a very compelling case for its current illegality. If you want to declare an action illegal (like I was responding to), [I]there actually needs to be a law against it.[/I][/QUOTE] nobodys arguing that it's illegal in fact you were the first one to mention anything about the legality of force feeding so what are you doing ?????
[QUOTE=scout1;40294117]The subjective morality of an action isn't a very compelling case for its current illegality. If you want to declare an action illegal (like I was responding to), [I]there actually needs to be a law against it.[/I][/QUOTE] Would you stop with the law-crap please, force feeding is wrong.
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294165]nobodys arguing that it's illegal in fact you were the first one to mention anything about the legality of force feeding so what are you doing ?????[/QUOTE] He is defending gitmo is what he is trying to do.
[QUOTE=scout1;40293001]Force feeding isn't illegal[/QUOTE] Pretty sure it isn't a done pratice in most of the world, if someone is on a hunger strike they should be allowed to continue it. More importantly, putting in an NG tube is a medical procedure and doing medical procedures without informed consent in most (all?) parts of the world is assault so you could argue in this case it is illegal.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;40291506]How can this place still exist? So much illegal shit seems to happen there and yet nothing at all seems to be done about it. Or is it because most prisoners there are "sub-human scum" as believed by the public?[/QUOTE] the news likes to sensationalise everything about guantanimo first off, second they exist in a political quagmire, we can't release them because we know they are going to go back to being terrorists, but at the same time we can't really do much else with them, so they will likely be kept at guantanimo indefinatly till they are slowly released to custody of their various countries
[QUOTE=Killuah;40294159]I didn't. It was a rhetoric device to show that you're using something being "illegal" or not as an indicator for the moral adny you didn't get it. Read it again in a sarcastic tone.[/QUOTE] A rhetoric device where you cite actual examples that you think are right then abandon when you realize how wrong you are. Okay, sure. And I was just joking, too, right? [QUOTE=Jsm;40294210]Pretty sure it isn't a done pratice in most of the world, if someone is on a hunger strike they should be allowed to continue it. More importantly, putting in an NG tube is a medical procedure and doing medical procedures without informed consent in most (all?) parts of the world is assault so you could argue in this case it is illegal.[/QUOTE] [B]Better.[/B] But case law says no. [url]http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2119936130691213027&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr[/url] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-m-appel/beyond-guantanamo-torture_b_360082.html[/url] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8094727.stm[/url] Last one is a fed case, so you can see how precedence has been set.
add gitmo to the list of things for congress to fix, they'll get to it in 20-30 years
I'm sitting here imagining you angryly searching for sources to "show them" while everyone in their right mind knows that this is just wrong despite what the crazy law systems say about it.
[QUOTE=scout1;40294255]A rhetoric device where you cite actual examples that you think are right then abandon when you realize how wrong you are. Okay, sure. And I was just joking, too, right? [B]Better.[/B] But case law says no. [url]http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=2119936130691213027&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr[/url] [url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jacob-m-appel/beyond-guantanamo-torture_b_360082.html[/url] [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8094727.stm[/url] Last one is a fed case, so you can see how precedence has been set.[/QUOTE] you re still trying to create an argument over something that wasn't even relevant until you made it out to be thats not cool man
[QUOTE=Killuah;40294289]I'm sitting here imagining you angryly searching for sources to "show them" while everyone in their right mind knows that this is just wrong despite what the crazy law systems say about it.[/QUOTE] Please continue to strawman me well past your own point being destroyed. I imagine you are actually an evil villian twirling your mustache at your supposed victory, right? :downs: [editline]15th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Juniez;40294303]you re still trying to create an argument over something that wasn't even relevant until you made it out to be thats not cool man[/QUOTE] Then there was no need to reply to my post, right? We could've left it at not being illegal. But evidently, some people disagree? Or - They raised an ethical argument. Which at no point have I alluded to. So was I the one who created an argument out of nothing, hrm?
"But the law!" Yeah well the law should be changed [in our opinion]. Argument over. All of you are arguing semantics which is a waste of time to everyone involved.
How about this. Do you think force feeding someone is ethically wrong? It is quite clear that in the US it is not illegal, but the question is, do you think it is wrong? In which case, should there be a law against it?
[QUOTE=scout1;40294329]Please continue to strawman me well past your own point being destroyed. I imagine you are actually an evil villian twirling your mustache at your supposed victory, right? :downs: [editline]15th April 2013[/editline] Then there was no need to reply to my post, right? We could've left it at not being illegal. But evidently, some people disagree? Or - They raised an ethical argument. Which at no point have I alluded to. So was I the one who created an argument out of nothing, hrm?[/QUOTE] yes. because you could have been like "yeah i agree it's morally unsound even though it's not illegal" and then everyone would be like "yeah" or you could have just never even brought it up, considering it wasn't an active topic until you decided to join in
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294384]yes. because you could have been like "yeah i agree it's morally unsound even though it's not illegal" and then everyone would be like "yeah"[/QUOTE] Why? I have no argument to make in the ethical department. And maybe I disagree, but refuse to post about it, thus eliminating such an argument, except that some people have chosen to make one. So please, don't accuse me of starting an argument over something irrelevant. Thank you. [editline]15th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Juniez;40294384]or you could have just never even brought it up, considering it wasn't an active topic until you decided to join in[/QUOTE] Er... I responded to a post insinuating it was illegal. So I don't understand how I "brought it up".
I still can't believe some people go around claiming they are better than terrorists, but at the same time endorse this sort of shit.
[QUOTE=scout1;40294413]Why? I have no argument to make in the ethical department. And maybe I disagree, but refuse to post about it, thus eliminating such an argument, except that some people have chosen to make one. So please, don't accuse me of starting an argument over something irrelevant. Thank you. [editline]15th April 2013[/editline] Er... I responded to a post insinuating it was illegal. So I don't understand how I "brought it up".[/QUOTE] aight [QUOTE=itisjuly;40291506]How can this place still exist? So much illegal shit seems to happen there and yet nothing at all seems to be done about it. Or is it because most prisoners there are "sub-human scum" as believed by the public?[/QUOTE] so your first post was quoting this where does it say anything about force feeding? because all i'm reading is that, generally speaking, gitmo isn't/wasn't legally sound. you can't deny that because illegal things have happened there
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294455] so your first post was quoting this where does it say anything about force feeding? because all i'm seeing is that, generally speaking, gitmo isn't/wasn't legally sound[/QUOTE] "So much illegal shit happens there" posted in a topic like this where the actions are phrased in a negative light (We can agree most if not all people here are looking on this as a bad thing, yes?) insinuates that the action itself is also illegal
yo scout be careful that huge stick up your ass might puncture your lungs. why are you arguing this at all when you easily could just not be making these abysmal posts and actually contribute to the discussion rather than be on a nonstop whine fest over something everybody understands and nobody cares to argue with you about. how are you so oblivious to how you're acting????
[QUOTE=scout1;40294482]"So much illegal shit happens there" posted in a topic like this where the actions are phrased in a negative light (We can agree most if not all people here are looking on this as a bad thing, yes?) insinuates that the action itself is also illegal[/QUOTE] but it doesn't. if you wanted clarification you should have asked him instead of going off like that
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294536]but it doesn't. if you wanted clarification you should have asked him instead of going off like that[/QUOTE] Okay well let's assume I am wrong and it didn't mean that. Okay. So I posted about the illegality and nobody gave a fuck. Wait, that's not what happened. People were interested in arguing the legality. There was disagreement. It's on topic, it's relevant. Gitmo's legality and methods are pretty heavily talked about. Not seeing a huge problem talking about gitmo in a gitmo thread.
[QUOTE=scout1;40294609]Okay well let's assume I am wrong and it didn't mean that. Okay. So I posted about the illegality and nobody gave a fuck. Wait, that's not what happened. People were interested in arguing the legality. There was disagreement. It's on topic, it's relevant. Gitmo's legality and methods are pretty heavily talked about. Not seeing a huge problem talking about gitmo in a gitmo thread.[/QUOTE] no-one said it was illegal well maybe except for laserguided [QUOTE=laserguided;40293040]Torture also isn't illegal if you change the definition of torture to suit your needs.[/QUOTE] idk what he means by that though
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294634]no-one said it was illegal[/QUOTE] Okay then why is it my problem other people are making a huge ethical argument when nobody's talking about the ethics?
[QUOTE=scout1;40294642]Okay then why is it my problem other people are making a huge ethical argument when nobody's talking about the ethics?[/QUOTE] it's not. you made it a problem by arguing about its legality where there was no argument to be found. The ethical topic was already there by the time you came in though, so if you want to jump in on that feel free.
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