• 'Gitmo is killing me': Inmate describes horror of being force-fed by tube
    147 replies, posted
[QUOTE=scout1;40294609]Okay well let's assume I am wrong and it didn't mean that. Okay. So I posted about the illegality and nobody gave a fuck. Wait, that's not what happened. People were interested in arguing the legality. There was disagreement. It's on topic, it's relevant. Gitmo's legality and methods are pretty heavily talked about. Not seeing a huge problem talking about gitmo in a gitmo thread.[/QUOTE] "I am incapable of talking about this subject without posting like a passive aggressive child who cares only to stir up unnecessary strife over something that could easily be discussed more civilly." dude for real you're just digging yourself deeper
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294674]it's not. you made it a problem by arguing about its legality where there was no argument to be found. The ethical topic was already there by the time you came in though, so if you want to jump in on that feel free.[/QUOTE] Okay I am willing to say that it is stupid to argue about a problem when there's no argument to be found. But obviously that applies to the ethics gentlemen too. Since nobody was arguing ethics. They might have been discussing it. But if that makes it okay to throw around an argument on it, then I'm in the clear too as gitmo's illegality was the first reply. [QUOTE=DOG-GY;40294690]"I am incapable of talking about this subject without posting like a passive aggressive child who cares only to stir up unnecessary strife over something that could easily be discussed more civilly." dude for real you're just digging yourself deeper[/QUOTE] The only thing you've posted in this thread so far is ad hom attacks. If I'm passive aggressive, you're just plain aggressive.
[QUOTE=scout1;40294725]Okay I am willing to say that it is stupid to argue about a problem when there's no argument to be found. But obviously that applies to the ethics gentlemen too. Since nobody was arguing ethics. They might have been discussing it. But if that makes it okay to throw around an argument on it, then I'm in the clear too as gitmo's illegality was the first reply. The only thing you've posted in this thread so far is ad hom attacks. If I'm passive aggressive, you're just plain aggressive.[/QUOTE] you can't argue that gitmo has done illegal things. because that's a fact + i don't even think there was an argument on ethincs either? everyone was pretty much in agreement
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294782]you can't argue that gitmo has done illegal things. because that's a fact [/QUOTE] I don't know much about that, but I can tell you force feeding isn't illegal. Which is what I keep saying, but people want to ignore that and strawman me. If you disagree... well I'm still listening. If you agree, there's little need to respond to my posts. [QUOTE=Juniez;40294782] + i don't even think there was an argument on ethincs either? everyone was pretty much in agreement[/QUOTE] Exactly. So get on their case for creating an argument, eh?
[QUOTE=scout1;40294725]The only thing you've posted in this thread so far is ad hom attacks. If I'm passive aggressive, you're just plain aggressive.[/QUOTE] lol i dont give a shit how you think i sound im tellin it like it is also i'm not making an ad hominem and i havent even made a single argument against you. pls dont try to throw a random fallacy at me thats just pointless. i'm saying you're being a dick.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;40294855]lol i dont give a shit how you think i sound im tellin it like it is also i'm not making an ad hominem and i havent even made a single argument against you. pls dont try to throw a random fallacy at me thats just pointless. i'm saying you're being a dick.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DOG-GY;40294500]yo scout be careful that huge stick up your ass might puncture your lungs. why are you arguing this at all when you easily could just not be making these abysmal posts and actually contribute to the discussion rather than be on a nonstop whine fest over something everybody understands and nobody cares to argue with you about. how are you so oblivious to how you're acting????[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem[/url]
[QUOTE=scout1;40294842][QUOTE=Juniez;40294782] + i don't even think there was an argument on ethincs either? everyone was pretty much in agreement[/QUOTE] Exactly. So get on their case for creating an argument, eh?[/QUOTE] ... until you came in, that is. the only thing i'm accusing you of is stirring everyone up even though everyone was in agreement with both its legality and its morality [QUOTE=Killuah;40293878]This is not about authority. This is about right or wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rhenae;40294080]What does it even matter if there is a law or not? It's just wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Killuah;40294172]Would you stop with the law-crap please, force feeding is wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ericson666;40293332]It's freaking barbaric[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Juniez;40294934]... until you came in, that is. [/QUOTE] Was not arguing its ethicality, never was. Not my problem if they want to scream at a wall. [QUOTE=Juniez;40294934]everyone was in agreement with both its legality[/QUOTE] If this was true nobody would have bothered replying to my posts. So either I disagree with everyone else, or some people disagree with me, or there is some disagreement somewhere. EDIT: I can quote killuah's posts trying to prove its illegality if you like.
thanks ive read it and you dont understand. i never cared or tried to comment on your argument itself so i can't really make an ad hom. your argument is irrelevant to my posts. all i'm saying is you have a bad attitude and that's just a plain old observation.
So I just have something to say. When my mother was a child she had enormous problems with eating. She would be sent to a hospital at least monthly, so you can imagine how bad it was. At the hospitals they would strap her to a chair, hold her down, and force food down her throat until they decided it was enough. If I recall correctly she was less than ten years old when it was at its worst. My mother is a very brave woman, but one of the very few things that actually scare her is being held down, or anything that keeps her locked in place. It was a while since we last talked about it, but I believe it gives her flashbacks to one of the worst times of her life. Force feeding is torture, not only dangerous to the person's physical condition, especially when carried out in rushed and horrible conditions like those at Gitmo, but also to the person's psychological condition. Even if the people who are now kept there ever get to move freely outside of the walls, they won't ever really leave it, because the memories and the pain it has inflicted upon them will stay with them until the day that they die, whether it is from torture or old age. So before you go about saying that we shouldn't think of force feeding like we are, scout, consider the fact that we live in the 21st century, a time where we have better solutions to problems than this, objectively seen. No one should be put through things like these in this day and age. Sorry about that rant, but this has been a subject close to my heart since I first heard my mother tell me about it.
not to start a shitstorm but i do love how a country founded on freedom and justice has some horrible human rights crushing prison that they can freely funnel people in to and basically torture
[QUOTE=Fhux;40294987] So before you go about saying that we shouldn't think of force feeding like we are, scout, consider the fact that we live in the 21st century, a time where we have better solutions to problems than this, objectively seen. No one should be put through things like these in this day and age. [/QUOTE] And what was the purpose of directing this at me?
[QUOTE=scout1;40294967]If this was true nobody would have bothered replying to my posts. So either I disagree with everyone else, or some people disagree with me, or there is some disagreement somewhere.[/QUOTE] the only reason people kept responding to you is because you never (ever) clarified your ethical stance even though numerous people have asked you to do so. in fact this whole thing could have been prevented by you (at any point) posting "Yes, I do agree that it's ethically unsound, but it technically is legal. what a shame". But like you said, screaming at a wall huh [QUOTE=scout1;40294967]EDIT: I can quote killuah's posts trying to prove its illegality if you like.[/QUOTE] I can certainly quote where he says it's irrelevant! [QUOTE=Killuah;40293645]One is Peta and one is the World Medical Association. I can't believe that you make up your mind about what is ethically right and wrong by whether there's a law against it or not.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=scout1;40294967]Was not arguing its ethicality, never was. Not my problem if they want to scream at a wall. If this was true nobody would have bothered replying to my posts. So either I disagree with everyone else, or some people disagree with me, or there is some disagreement somewhere. EDIT: I can quote killuah's posts trying to prove its illegality if you like.[/QUOTE] It's like you go into every thread that has something controversial and attempt to debate about something that will surely piss people off. Go to the debate section then, stay out of SH if that's all you're going to do for 20 pages like every thread.
[QUOTE=scout1;40295070]And what was the purpose of directing this at me?[/QUOTE] I did not direct the entire text at you, but seeing as you are the only one here actively trying to defend torture I felt like I had to say at least something. Why wouldn't I?
[QUOTE=Juniez;40295074]the only reason people kept responding to you is because you never (ever) clarified your ethical stance even though numerous people have asked you to do so. [/QUOTE] [B]AHEM.[/B] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293590&viewfull=1#post40293590[/url] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293667&viewfull=1#post40293667[/url] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40293926&viewfull=1#post40293926[/url] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1261478&p=40294059&viewfull=1#post40294059[/url] [QUOTE=Juniez;40295074] in fact this whole thing could have been prevented by you (at any point) posting "Yes, I do agree that it's ethically unsound, but it technically is legal. what a shame". But like you said, screaming at a wall huh [/QUOTE] And like I said, maybe I don't agree. Maybe I do. But I'm not talking ethics. I don't care to discuss or argue ethics. I have never been arguing ethics. [QUOTE=scout1;40294413]Why? I have no argument to make in the ethical department. And maybe I disagree, but refuse to post about it, thus eliminating such an argument, except that some people have chosen to make one. So please, don't accuse me of starting an argument over something irrelevant. Thank you. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Juniez;40295074] I can certainly quote where he says it's irrelevant![/QUOTE] He's not saying it's irrelevant, he's trying to pretend the [I]'World Medical Association'[/I] has some sort of judicial system because it sounds official. Hence his post before that: [QUOTE=Killuah;40293561]Thank god they don't break any US laws, right scout1, right? Who cares about other views of the matter![/QUOTE]
wow you guys are dumb as hell. you keep talking all this shit about scout yet literally the easiest solution is right in front of your fucking eyes: just stop responding to him. don't complain about him whining if you're doing it triplefold.
[QUOTE=Fhux;40295137]I did not direct the entire text at you, but seeing as you are the only one here actively trying to defend torture I felt like I had to say at least something. Why wouldn't I?[/QUOTE] Am I "defending torture" by explaining how it's not illegal?
[QUOTE=scout1;40295144] And like I said, maybe I don't agree. Maybe I do. But I'm not talking ethics. I don't care to discuss or argue ethics. I have never been arguing ethics. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=scout1;40294413]Why? I have no argument to make in the ethical department. And maybe I disagree, but refuse to post about it[/QUOTE] then don't come into a thread with a topic focused on ethics? in fact let me try and bring this topic back what is your ethical stance on the current situation at Guantanamo Bay, scout1?
[QUOTE=Juniez;40295187]then don't come into a thread with a topic focused on ethics?[/QUOTE] ...Could you tell me how the topic is "focused" on ethics when the OP takes neither an ethical nor legal stance and the first reply is about legality?
[QUOTE=scout1;40295216]...Could you tell me how the topic is "focused" on ethics when the article takes neither an ethical nor legal stance and the first reply is about legality?[/QUOTE] 'Gitmo is killing me' 'horror ' 'strapped down' 'death' gosh the article sure uses a lot of emotionally charged words one might even say its focus is to question the ethics of this detainment facility and to bring about change in the legal department to align with their ethical stance
[QUOTE=scout1;40295177]Am I "defending torture" by explaining how it's not illegal?[/QUOTE] You are attempting to put it in a light that it does not deserve by doing just that, which is defending it. So yes, you are. I am not saying that you are telling us all that it's a good thing, but you cannot say that you are not defending it.
Maybe I have missed something here in this thread but I didn't see Scout1 say anything about his stance on force-feeding, just that it's not illegal. A lot of you are assuming he's in support of it like that Killua guy for whatever reason
because naturally the first question most people would ask themselves when presented with something where a human is being forced to do something against their will, such as this, is "is this ethical?" it's obvious you either want to continue an irrelevant tangent to the real issue at hand out of either malice or just being oblivious so i'm just gonna say hanlon's razor and call it a day
[QUOTE=Juniez;40295271]'Gitmo is killing me' 'horror ' 'strapped down' 'death' gosh the article sure uses a lot of emotionally charged words one might even say its focus is to question the ethics of this detainment facility and to bring about change in the legal department to align with their ethical stance[/QUOTE] "prison" "citizen" "accused" "adviser on detainee issues" "[...] in protest of their open-ended confinement and what the men consider intrusive searches of their Korans for contraband, according to prisoners’ lawyers." And again we'll assume I am wrong and completely missed the point. Apparently so did the first replier, laserguided who argued its legality and quickly stepped out, and killuah who tried to cite clear examples. For a topic focused on ethics, it sure is off the mark a lot. [editline]15th April 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Fhux;40295295]You are attempting to put it in a light that it does not deserve by doing just that, which is defending it. So yes, you are. I am not saying that you are telling us all that it's a good thing, but you cannot say that you are not defending it.[/QUOTE] Go speak to a lawyer about your rights. Ask him if force feeding is illegal. If he tells you it isn't, is he defending it?
[QUOTE=scout1;40295216]...Could you tell me how the topic is "focused" on ethics when the OP takes neither an ethical nor legal stance and the first reply is about legality?[/QUOTE] Why are we arguing about the legality of force-feeding when this prison itself is illegal [i]as defined by the Constitution?[/i] A lot of the detainees are being held without charges, so in the eyes of the law you have been defending they have done nothing to deserve being there in the first place.
[QUOTE=WilloTheWisp;40295325]Maybe I have missed something here in this thread but I didn't see Scout1 say anything about his stance on force-feeding, just that it's not illegal. A lot of you are assuming he's in support of it like that Killua guy for whatever reason[/QUOTE] I have repeatedly and clearly refused to state my own stance on the issue, yes. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Threadshitting arguments for a third time, isn't learning" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=WilloTheWisp;40295325]Maybe I have missed something here in this thread but I didn't see Scout1 say anything about his stance on force-feeding, just that it's not illegal. A lot of you are assuming he's in support of it like that Killua guy for whatever reason[/QUOTE] he refuses to clarify when asked directly while knowing the general consensus is that it is unethical, so imo it's safe to assume he disagrees with that and doesn't want to say it
[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;40295363]Why are we arguing about the legality of force-feeding when this prison itself is illegal [i]as defined by the Constitution?[/i] A lot of the detainees are being held without charges, so in the eyes of the law you have been defending they have done nothing to deserve being there in the first place.[/QUOTE] Because that's a decent argument no one has made up to this point. Of course through various and actual legal loopholes the prison has been deemed legal. Such as classifying prisoners of war as things... not prisoners of war.
[QUOTE=scout1;40295371]I have repeatedly and clearly refused to state my own stance on the issue, yes.[/QUOTE] you're either afraid to disagree or won't say out of spite
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