• EU campaigns set for final showdown tonight with 'great debate' at Wembley Stadium
    189 replies, posted
Hope the UK leaves. The EU will finally be able to implement projects to make the EU stronger without you guys vetoing everything
[QUOTE=SpartanApples;50563333]There will be a slump due to uncertainty, but the evidence that a Brexit will destroy our economy doesn't really hold up. It's the same arguments and statistics that economists made when we didn't join the Euro and when Norway had their EU referendum in the 90s. In both cases the economic predictions turned out to be completely wrong.[/QUOTE] We'll end up with massive issues with trade, Germany will definitely reduce trade after the free trade agreement ends, and who's that going to leave us with? The US? They don't care for us any more and are more interested in Europe as a whole. The commonwealth? Most of them hate us and wouldn't be interested. China? Same thing, don't like us. I really can't see a scenario where Brexit goes well.
[QUOTE=waylander;50563130]I cant believe people think the bullshit in some debate will have any effect, the majority had picked a side months if not years ago[/QUOTE] Enough people have changed their minds just in the last month that the entire outcome of the referendum might have changed. The polls for this referendum are so close that you only need a few undecided voters to make up their minds and suddenly the whole game changes [t]http://i.imgur.com/in6wl8V.png[/t]
[QUOTE=smurfy;50564354]Enough people have changed their minds just in the last month that the entire outcome of the referendum might have changed. The polls for this referendum are so close that you only need a few undecided voters to make up their minds and suddenly the whole game changes[/QUOTE] An average of the polls shows it almost as a dead heat at the moment. They predict that almost 10% are undecided. So it could go any way.
Didn't like how remain was always talking over the leave group when speaking. Just stfu and let me listen to both sides clearly.
[QUOTE=Fantastical;50563750]Hope the UK leaves. The EU will finally be able to implement projects to make the EU stronger without you guys vetoing everything[/QUOTE] Projects such as...?
[QUOTE=Fantastical;50563750]Hope the UK leaves. The EU will finally be able to implement projects to make the EU stronger without you guys vetoing everything[/QUOTE] I think it was mentioned last night that of the 70 vetoes we used not one was succesful due to being outvoted by the other member states.
[url=http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682306/EU-referendum-Brexit-Turkey-membership-talks-European-Union]EU to hold talks with Turkey over Brussels membership next week[/url] but it's a lie guys :(
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;50567104][url=http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682306/EU-referendum-Brexit-Turkey-membership-talks-European-Union]EU to hold talks with Turkey over Brussels membership next week[/url] but it's a lie guys :([/QUOTE] Turkey's not gonna get in the EU if that's what you think.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;50567104][url=http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682306/EU-referendum-Brexit-Turkey-membership-talks-European-Union]EU to hold talks with Turkey over Brussels membership next week[/url] but it's a lie guys :([/QUOTE] That doesn't mean anytime soon [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] Turkey will join when the requirements are met.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;50567104][url=http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682306/EU-referendum-Brexit-Turkey-membership-talks-European-Union]EU to hold talks with Turkey over Brussels membership next week[/url] but it's a lie guys :([/QUOTE] Any source which isn't the daily express/mail i.e. not biased towards brexit? (e.g. Reuters)
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50567306]Any source which isn't the daily express/mail i.e. not biased towards brexit? (e.g. Reuters)[/QUOTE] Yeah if you just slap the title into Google it comes up with a few
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;50567317]Yeah if you just slap the title into Google it comes up with a few[/QUOTE] Can you stop with this 'google it'. If you are making a point it is your job to provide sources, not to tell everyone else to google it. Either way, I did and it's the express, the mail, and a load of places I've never heard of.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;50567104][url=http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/682306/EU-referendum-Brexit-Turkey-membership-talks-European-Union]EU to hold talks with Turkey over Brussels membership next week[/url] but it's a lie guys :([/QUOTE] Every single state in the EU has a veto on Turkey joining. Do you really think Greece and Cyprus want to see Turkey in the EU, even if dickhead Cameron does? Sadiq Khan told it like it was - Turkey will never join the EU at this rate. There are almost 3 dozen chapters that need to be sorted and the only one, the only one that Turkey has managed to close was related to science. In 11 years. Boris Johnson last night lied through his teeth - his closing speech was thinly veiled bullshit rhetoric to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like people that take anything written in the Daily Express seriously. Andrea Leadsom basically quoted that sham of a documentary Brexit Movie thing verbatim. Their statistics have been debunked again and again and again. Their economic argument is a joke - literally every time someone points out that basically everyone with a shred of professional experience thinks the idea of prospering out is absurd, all they have to say, every single time that its just fear mongering. Its a knee jerk response and unbelievably hypocritical. In the same breath, they then say staying in the EU is riskier. If someone said to you, "hey, walking across a minefield is actually a pretty stupid idea and you're likely to be blown up", would you dismiss their argument as scare mongering and wank about how great human determination is? Leave have lied about the state of democracy in the EU, they've lied about the money we give to the EU, they've lied about what they would do with the money if they got it back and they've lied about Turkey. Of their non-UKIP big three figureheads Johnson, Gove and Duncan-Smith, none of them have a shred of credibility. Johnson wants Cameron's job. Gove and Duncan-Smith hate Cameron's guts.
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;50567306]Any source which isn't the daily express/mail i.e. not biased towards brexit? (e.g. Reuters)[/QUOTE] Whether the meeting is gonna take place (I don't think they would outright lie about something like this) or not is irrelevant, because Turkey is not gonna get in, and it's as easy as that really.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;50567332]Whether the meeting is gonna take place (I don't think they would outright lie about something like this) or not is irrelevant, because Turkey is not gonna get in, and it's as easy as that really.[/QUOTE] I wasn't doubting the talks were taking place, it's just he's implying that they'll actually get in with his second statement so I was asking for an unbiased source on that comment, which he has failed to provide.
So what happened? Did leave gain a lot of momentum or something?
[QUOTE=evilweazel;50567348]So what happened? Did leave gain a lot of momentum or something?[/QUOTE] I don't think either side was likely to win much. Leave had a lot of vocal supporters in the venue but said very little to sway anyone who doubted their 'project fear' rhetoric. I expect a remain vote close enough that it's still contentious.
Turkey isn't going to join the EU anytime soon. Don't vote leave because of that bs. Erdogan even recent said ‘We’ll go our way, you go yours’ [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/06/erdogan-turkey-not-alter-anti-terror-laws-visa-free-travel-eu[/url] It's not like this UK is part of the Schengin zone anyway.
I never understood "We'll take back control!" Who is 'we'? Is it the British public? Of course it's fucking not, it's the government. Who is the current government? Why, it's Tories of course, and if Ol' Bozza gets his way he'll be the one in control. God help us all if it comes to that.
YouGov did some sort of poll asking who won the debate, not sure if it's been published yet though [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] I know because I took part in it
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;50567476]I never understood "We'll take back control!" Who is 'we'? Is it the British public? Of course it's fucking not, it's the government. Who is the current government? Why, it's Tories of course, and if Ol' Bozza gets his way he'll be the one in control. God help us all if it comes to that.[/QUOTE] I think part of the issue is that people look at things from two separate angles. When they talk about the UK, they look at us as a whole country, even though we're divided into hundreds of constituencies, and citizens can only vote for a single MP out of those hundreds (plus the 800 or so Lords). But when it comes to the EU, people [I]love[/I] to mention that the UK only holds a proportion of the MEPs, and doesn't directly elect anyone outside of European Parliament (even though everybody [I]is[/I] elected, it just might not be by the population of the EU itself). Never mind that the UK actually punches above its weight when it comes to the amount of MEPs it gets, and that part of the reason why we 'don't have a voice' in some votes is because [url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-meps-attend-the-fewest-european-parliament-votes-of-any-party-in-the-eus-28-countries-10316962.html]we elect MEPs who barely show up to vote[/url].
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;50567331]Every single state in the EU has a veto on Turkey joining. Do you really think Greece and Cyprus want to see Turkey in the EU, even if dickhead Cameron does? Sadiq Khan told it like it was - Turkey will never join the EU at this rate. There are almost 3 dozen chapters that need to be sorted and the only one, the only one that Turkey has managed to close was related to science. In 11 years. Boris Johnson last night lied through his teeth - his closing speech was thinly veiled bullshit rhetoric to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like people that take anything written in the Daily Express seriously. Andrea Leadsom basically quoted that sham of a documentary Brexit Movie thing verbatim. Their statistics have been debunked again and again and again. Their economic argument is a joke - literally every time someone points out that basically everyone with a shred of professional experience thinks the idea of prospering out is absurd, all they have to say, every single time that its just fear mongering. Its a knee jerk response and unbelievably hypocritical. In the same breath, they then say staying in the UK is riskier. If someone said to you, "hey, walking across a minefield is actually a pretty stupid idea and you're likely to be blown up", would you dismiss their argument as scare mongering and wank about how great human determination is? Leave have lied about the state of democracy in the EU, they've lied about the money we give to the EU, they've lied about what they would do with the money if they got it back and they've lied about Turkey. Of their non-UKIP big four figureheads Johnson, Gove and Duncan-Smith, none of them have a shred of credibility. Johnson wants Cameron's job. Gove and Duncan-Smith hate Cameron's guts.[/QUOTE] This. Leave will probably win because of rhetoric and hyperbole.
[QUOTE=zupadupazupadude;50567241]That doesn't mean anytime soon [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] Turkey will join when the requirements are met.[/QUOTE] Our EU-supporting politicians and the EU bureaucrats said that Turkey was still on track for that visa deal even after Erdogan had a Dutch-Kurdi journalist arrested for writing negative things about Erdogan. Do you realise how that makes the EU look in the eyes of the average Joe? I think if you'd go with a referendum in any EU country if Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, it would be a 90+ percent vote to keep Turkey out with the way Erdogan is acting. Yet the bureaucrats in Brussels do whatever they want, so they keep appeasing the wanna-be dictator, since that worked out so damn well in the past. This appeasement of a wanna-be dictator just sickens me. It tells a lot about the intention of the EU if they let a wanna-be dictator from outside the EU trample over all our supposed morals and values. A bunch of spineless bureaucrats who would do anything to have power over more and more people without actually caring about the history and cultures of Europe.
[QUOTE=Jordax;50567850]Our EU-supporting politicians and the EU bureaucrats said that Turkey was still on track for that visa deal even after Erdogan had a Dutch-Kurdi journalist arrested for writing negative things about Erdogan. Do you realise how that makes the EU look in the eyes of the average Joe? I think if you'd go with a referendum in any EU country if Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, it would be a 90+ percent vote to keep Turkey out with the way Erdogan is acting. [B]Yet the bureaucrats in Brussels do whatever they want, so they keep appeasing the wanna-be dictator, since that worked out so damn well in the past.[/B] This appeasement of a wanna-be dictator just sickens me. It tells a lot about the intention of the EU if they let a wanna-be dictator from outside the EU trample over all our supposed morals and values. A bunch of spineless bureaucrats who would do anything to have power over more and more people without actually caring about the history and cultures of Europe.[/QUOTE] I think that's only taking the issue and going half-way - [I]why[/I] are we even talking about giving Turkey that visa deal? Oh yeah, because people don't want the refugees to get to Europe, so we try to talk Turkey, a country that really isn't interested in taking all those refugees, into taking them instead. It isn't just "the bureaucrats in Brussels" doing whatever they want, or at least that's a very simplistic view of it - in my opinion. You can't just have your cake and eat it too.
The BS won't make any difference now. We won't all get a result we like tomorrow. A Brexit will be a bigger hit for the bookies than Leicester City winning the EPL.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;50568005]The BS won't make any difference now. I hope you all win tomorrow.[/QUOTE] tyvm i hope so too. remain will mean the pound will strengthen and then i can convert my money before going on holiday
[QUOTE=Jordax;50567850]Our EU-supporting politicians and the EU bureaucrats said that Turkey was still on track for that visa deal even after Erdogan had a Dutch-Kurdi journalist arrested for writing negative things about Erdogan. Do you realise how that makes the EU look in the eyes of the average Joe? I think if you'd go with a referendum in any EU country if Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, it would be a 90+ percent vote to keep Turkey out with the way Erdogan is acting. Yet the bureaucrats in Brussels do whatever they want, so they keep appeasing the wanna-be dictator, since that worked out so damn well in the past. [/QUOTE] They tried to stop 'economic migrants' from coming into Europe with that agreement with Turkey. You know, something you, among others, fucking complained about? They're not 'doing whatever they want' they're doing what people asked for lmao. And yes, they [I]do[/I] care for the history and cultures of Europe, as Turkey isn't going to get in the EU unless they meet the requirements for membership, which they obviously aren't even close to meeting. Also Erdogan is stupid but he's not literally Hitler. Turkey is pretty much doing what we're asking them to do with the refugees. So far the agreement has worked fine. [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] What the fuck is with the fuss about giving turkey free visa travel anyway, they won't even be able to work here
at this point i've really gotta ask, what exactly is the point of a referendum in which the public opinion is perfectly split 50/50? i mean no matter what happens half the population's concerns won't be addressed, so the winning side will have faltering support regardless and it won't put much of anything to rest, at least not for good. but that's just how it seems to me.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50568025]tyvm i hope so too. remain will mean the pound will strengthen and then i can convert my money before going on holiday[/QUOTE] I'm off to sunny Malta on July 1st with apartments booked but no food so I hope the pound rallies a bit. [editline]22nd June 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cone;50568084]at this point i've really gotta ask, what exactly is the point of a referendum in which the public opinion is perfectly split 50/50? i mean no matter what happens half the population's concerns won't be addressed, so the winning side will have faltering support regardless and it won't put much of anything to rest, at least not for good. but that's just how it seems to me.[/QUOTE] If it stayed the same with no referendum this would still have been the case. Folks will have to accept the result. This is the same in a general election when more than half of the nation don't get their choice either.
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