Article 50 could be triggered in January or February
92 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Ax3l;51064413]I'm not big on politics, and I've been trying to look it up online. But I can't find a decent explanation that I undertand. :s:
But what does leaving the EU actually mean? What are the pros and cons, and the potential consequences?
A lot of people seem to imply the events will be catastrophic, but why is that?[/QUOTE]
Similar to any Brazil Olympic thread there is a propensity for catastrophic here but it's simply mass hysteria.
[QUOTE=FalloutAddict;51064420]Shut up.[/QUOTE]
Wow dude you totally got him there
[editline]17th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;51064466]Isn't mass hysteria what caused UK to vote itself out of the EU in the first place?[/QUOTE]
People in this country are stupid and will blindly believe any lies the right wing parties spew out.
[QUOTE=Ax3l;51064413]I'm not big on politics, and I've been trying to look it up online. But I can't find a decent explanation that I undertand. :s:
But what does leaving the EU actually mean? What are the pros and cons, and the potential consequences?
A lot of people seem to imply the events will be catastrophic, but why is that?[/QUOTE]
One of the issues is are environmental protection policies, which will most likely be strongly weakened in the aftermath of the Brexit. (We're already seeing some signs in that directly like the coal mine that afaik was just granted in a nature tourism and bird watching spot, but I [I]think[/I] that's still within the confines of the original policies.)
Another are for example subsidies given to the agricultural sector that were organised by the EU, though Britain should be able to provide those by itself since it's a net monetary contributor to the EU (but iinm their government seems to be slightly more economically liberal than in the rest of the union (see e.g. gradual disruption of the NHS), so that remains to be seen. It could definitely go either way though).
Another major issue is, ironically enough, loss of political influence in the EEU (which Britain seemingly wants to maintain trade agreements with). As an EEU-but-not-EU member state, they would have to abide by the vast majority of its economic rules, but without any say regarding them.
The alternative, of course, is stronger cooperation with partners in Asia and the US, but to be competitive while opening up towards there more so than the EU, Britain would probably have to reduce consumer- and employee-protection standards in order to not face too much outsourcing. (I'm definitely only a layman regarding this stuff, so take this with a huge piece of salt.)
[QUOTE=Tamschi;51064536]One of the issues is are environmental protection policies, which will most likely be strongly weakened in the aftermath of the Brexit. (We're already seeing some signs in that directly like the coal mine that afaik was just granted in a nature tourism and bird watching spot, but I [I]think[/I] that's still within the confines of the original policies.)
Another are for example subsidies given to the agricultural sector that were organised by the EU, though Britain should be able to provide those by itself (but iinm their government seems to be slightly more economically liberal than in the rest of the union (see e.g. gradual disruption of the NHS), so that remains to be seen. It could definitely go either way though).
Another major issue is, ironically enough, loss of political influence in the EEU (which Britain seemingly wants to maintain trade agreements with). As an EEU-but-not-EU member state, they would have to abide by the vast majority of its economic rules, but without any say regarding them.
The alternative, of course, is stronger cooperation with partners in Asia and the US, but to be competitive while opening up towards there more so than the EU, Britain would probably have to reduce consumer- and employee-protection standards in order to not face too much outsourcing. (I'm definitely only a layman regarding this stuff, so take this with a huge piece of salt.)[/QUOTE]
I think I understand. Thank's for explaining it. I think I got at least some better insight on the whole thing. :smile:
[QUOTE=Ax3l;51064543]I think I understand. Thank's for explaining it. I think I got at least some better insight on the whole thing. :smile:[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's more than scratching the surface, so it's probably a good idea for both of us to read more about the topic.
Regarding why the exit proceedings are taking so long and why Britain is holding off on starting the negotiations: According to a recent short feature on Al Jazeera, the country currently employs very few professional negotiators who could effect a reasonable exit deal with the EU (which does have ample). Negotiations like these require [B]a lot[/B] of fairly specific expertise and a huge amount of work, so they really can't just hire a few hundred people and start it now. It's bad for the rest of the EU because that creates a lot of (economic) uncertainty though, which is one reason the EU refuses to negotiate with Britain before article 50 is invoked to set a hard time limit.
[editline]17th September 2016[/editline]
For comparison, if they just had members of parliament negotiate, it would probably be similar to governments creating online/internet legislation but far, [I]far[/I] worse.
They'd completely squander their chances, and since I don't think that would be a positive outcome for the rest of the continent either in the long term, I actually don't mind mind taking their time to do it properly as long as they don't intentionally do it slowly for internal political reasons.
[QUOTE=SirJon;51064227]Brexit made england so bad i emigrated to poland[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't surprise me we start seeing more people emigrate these next few years. I certainly am focused on leaving this country at this point.
Already working on getting out of here before its too late, this'll just speed that process up for me
[QUOTE=Tamschi;51064552]I don't think it's more than scratching the surface, so it's probably a good idea for both of us to read more about the topic.
Regarding why the exit proceedings are taking so long and why Britain is holding off on starting the negotiations: According to a recent short feature on Al Jazeera, the country currently employs very few professional negotiators who could effect a reasonable exit deal with the EU (which does have ample). Negotiations like these require [B]a lot[/B] of fairly specific expertise and a huge amount of work, so they really can't just hire a few hundred people and start it now. It's bad for the rest of the EU because that creates a lot of (economic) uncertainty though, which is one reason the EU refuses to negotiate with Britain before article 50 is invoked to set a hard time limit.
[editline]17th September 2016[/editline]
For comparison, if they just had members of parliament negotiate, it would probably be similar to governments creating online/internet legislation but far, [I]far[/I] worse.[/QUOTE]
You'd expect the logistics of the Brexit to be tricky, it's certainly in the UK's interests to get the best possible deals so it's not exactly something you would want to rush into headlong and with the wrong negotiators.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51064610]You'd expect the logistics of the Brexit to be tricky, it's certainly in the UK's interests to get the best possible deals so it's not exactly something you would want to rush into headlong and with the wrong negotiators.[/QUOTE]
The best possible deal would have been to stay in the EU.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51064621]The best possible deal would have been to stay in the EU.[/QUOTE]
If the Queen had bollocks she'd be the King.
As someone who lives in a city which is surrounded by businesses that revolve around vegetable export which has many roots in the UK.. I fear the worst for them and their contracts that they got with UK supermarkets
Can you fuck off instead and let me finish off my Uni first? thanks
About time we had a date. I voted in, but its nice to see they are actually following through with it and not taking it to a second vote.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51064640]If the Queen had bollocks she'd be the King.[/QUOTE]
We didn't hold a referendum to castrate the King to make him a Queen.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51064640]If the Queen had bollocks she'd be the King.[/QUOTE]
What a fucking nothing post. Just what we've come to expect from you tbh.
So, riots when? Because the Leave campaign was entirely founded upon lie after lie after lie, by self-service toffs who won't actually suffer the consequences of an invocation of Article 50. I've already covered this in another thread and don't really want to go through typing it out all over again.
But the gist of it was; when are we going to arrest the cunts who ran Leave for lying repeatedly during a political event?
[editline]17th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=xianlee;51064821]About time we had a date. I voted in, but its nice to see they are actually following through with it and not taking it to a second vote.[/QUOTE]
[I]this isn't a good thing[/I]
Would you also respect someone who followed through with jumping off a cliff after having their friends unanimously decide that would be top bants?
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51064610]You'd expect the logistics of the Brexit to be tricky, it's certainly in the UK's interests to get the best possible deals so it's not exactly something you would want to rush into headlong and with the wrong negotiators.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I added a sentence to that regard a little after, but I probably posted it while you were writing the reply.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51064304]what about scotland for example lol
god damn brexit is the most retarded thing to have happened this year[/QUOTE]
Hold your breath until November.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51064885]What a fucking nothing post. Just what we've come to expect from you tbh.
So, riots when? Because the Leave campaign was entirely founded upon lie after lie after lie, by self-service toffs who won't actually suffer the consequences of an invocation of Article 50. I've already covered this in another thread and don't really want to go through typing it out all over again.
But the gist of it was; when are we going to arrest the cunts who ran Leave for lying repeatedly during a political event?
[editline]17th September 2016[/editline]
[I]this isn't a good thing[/I]
Would you also respect someone who followed through with jumping off a cliff after having their friends unanimously decide that would be top bants?[/QUOTE]
This was in answer to the best deal would be to stay in, well we didn't so it's irrelevant, hence my comment.
We [B]are[/B] leaving the EU and in our own timeframe, not one dictated to us from the EU.
[QUOTE=Ax3l;51064413]I'm not big on politics, and I've been trying to look it up online. But I can't find a decent explanation that I undertand. :s:
But what does leaving the EU actually mean? What are the pros and cons, and the potential consequences?
A lot of people seem to imply the events will be catastrophic, but why is that?[/QUOTE]
Im guessing it because of the migrant crisis. People were complaining about the problems they were caused by unvertified refugees. Instead of being taken seriously, they got smugly told by liberal EU leaders to embrace it you racist twats. So when the issue came up, the voters went Brexit in hopes of getting a responsible immigration policy instated.
Im am an out sider, and thus talking largely out of my ass. Ill admit it. Yet what little Ive read, this seems to be the case.
Until the left begins to take immigration seriously, begin to expect a lot more reactions like Brexit and power grabs by the right to crop up.
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51065376]
Until the left begins to take immigration seriously, begin to expect a lot more reactions like Brexit and power grabs by the right to crop up.[/QUOTE]
This is pretty spot on. Working class people in the North feel that they have been really negatively affected by immigration, but the only people that seem to listen are UKIP etc. That's one of the main reasons Labour is haemorrhaging support (and the infighting with Corbyn of course).
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51065376]Until the left begins to take immigration seriously, begin to expect a lot more reactions like Brexit and power grabs by the right to crop up.[/QUOTE]
"The Left" (by that way, what is it with you are nebulous terminology? "The Left" encompasses a lot) are taking immigration seriously though. Depending on which particular leftist ideology you're looking at the answers are almost certainly different. Certain groups are for more open immigration, sure. But not all groups.
I mean, unless you consider "taking it seriously" to be "ban all brown people". In which case, we're done here.
[editline]17th September 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=SpartanApples;51065439]This is pretty spot on. Working class people in the North feel that they have been really negatively affected by immigration, but the only people that seem to listen are UKIP etc. That's one of the main reasons Labour is haemorrhaging support (and the infighting with Corbyn of course).[/QUOTE]
so literally "feels before reals".
Boy, no wonder the political landscape of the country is so fucking dire right now. People aren't willing to actually research anything and base their decisions on what's going on. Instead opting to listen to "pete from work" about how immigrants are taking all the jobs or whatever.
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11251624/Where-are-the-immigrants-This-map-will-tell-you.html[/url]
The northern counties are currently some of the lowest migrant populations in the country. With only the largest cities having densities higher than 10% of foreign born nationals living and working there. If anyone in the country had grounds to complain about migrants taking their jobs or whatever, it'd be those living in the Greater London area, which has densities over 50% in a few districts.
[QUOTE]I mean, unless you consider "taking it seriously" to be "ban all brown people". In which case, we're done here.[/QUOTE]
This is why you guys are losing. Any one who disagrees with you is automatically racist. Must be of the right wing. Must be some stupid ass looney, thus we dismiss them.
It must be they hate brown people. Yep yep. Most definitely.
Here is the thing. When people are filing police reports about crimes committed by refugees and get ignored (or worse censored or suppressed), people have only one place to go. The right wing. By dropping the smug and condescending attitude and taking problems seriously that may or may not go against your narrative, you de fang the right. You rob it of power.
As for terms, I am not the one who invented them. Others do so and use them. I have no choice but use the terms used and invented other to convey ideas.
As for my own personal position, Ive posted it in unpopular opinions. I am neither right or left.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;51065452]
so literally "feels before reals".
Boy, no wonder the political landscape of the country is so fucking dire right now. People aren't willing to actually research anything and base their decisions on what's going on. Instead opting to listen to "pete from work" about how immigrants are taking all the jobs or whatever.
[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/11251624/Where-are-the-immigrants-This-map-will-tell-you.html[/url]
The northern counties are currently some of the lowest migrant populations in the country. With only the largest cities having densities higher than 10% of foreign born nationals living and working there. If anyone in the country had grounds to complain about migrants taking their jobs or whatever, it'd be those living in the Greater London area, which has densities over 50% in a few districts.[/QUOTE]
I live in Oldham, a deeply segregated town with ghettos. It's ranked as one of the most deprived towns in the country. The low pay agency jobs here are dominated by immigrants who are exploited because they just don't know better and English people won't do the work (but to be fair, it is shit work for shit pay).
Are the immigrants to blame here? No. But people will blame them anyway and then something like Brexit happens.
You also have things like the Rotherham grooming scandal play into the mix, a problem which is still ongoing.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51064154]Isn't it wonderful when we cant even spare a moment for thinking about the people who Brexit negatively affected. You got what you wanted and that's all that matters, I suppose.[/QUOTE]
Isnt it wonderful when we can't even spare a moment for thinking about the people who Brexit positively affected. You didn't get what you wanted and that's all that matters, I suppose.
See? You didn't think this very thoroughly did you? I can do it too.
[QUOTE=Seerus;51065540]Isnt it wonderful when we can't even spare a moment for thinking about the people who Brexit positively affected. You didn't get what you wanted and that's all that matters, I suppose.
See? You didn't think this very thoroughly did you? I can do it too.[/QUOTE]
Ok then, tell me what actual positive effects Brexit had besides fucking over most of the Britons and sending a shockwave through the world economy when the news came out?
Let me put it in simple terms: a lot of industries, colleges, and government institutions were being funded by EU money. What happens when they no longer have that money to use? downsizing and closure of those institutions, which in turn leads to layoffs and lost jobs.
[QUOTE=Seerus;51065540]Isnt it wonderful when we can't even spare a moment for thinking about the people who Brexit positively affected. You didn't get what you wanted and that's all that matters, I suppose.[/QUOTE]
the average voter certainly hasn't benefited. travel is gonna be restricted, there aren't magically less immigrants in the country now, there's even less funding for the NHS than before, EU funding has been removed and taken a lot of projects and work sectors with it, which is bad for everyone working in either of those, and "sovereignty" sure as fuck won't put food on the table. all the things that could actually affect the average working-class person either never happened or were purely negative.
[QUOTE=karlosfandango;51064210]Whether or not you agree with the Brexit the predicted economical backlash isn't going how the experts predicted, yet.
[url]http://graphics.wsj.com/uk-watch/[/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=karlosfandango]experts[/QUOTE]
[B][TRIGGERED][/B]
[QUOTE=Guriosity;51065494]This is why you guys are losing. Any one who disagrees with you is automatically racist. Must be of the right wing. Must be some stupid ass looney, thus we dismiss them.
It must be they hate brown people. Yep yep. Most definitely.
Here is the thing. When people are filing police reports about crimes committed by refugees and get ignored (or worse censored or suppressed), people have only one place to go. The right wing. By dropping the smug and condescending attitude and taking problems seriously that may or may not go against your narrative, you de fang the right. You rob it of power.
As for terms, I am not the one who invented them. Others do so and use them. I have no choice but use the terms used and invented other to convey ideas.
As for my own personal position, Ive posted it in unpopular opinions. I am neither right or left.[/QUOTE]
How the fuck are people agreeing with this post? This guy literally just strawmanned Hexpunk, used a completely ridiculous example that doesn't happen at all in the UK, and then went on to act smug and condescending while calling out other for doing the exact same thing.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;51064150]your fantasies are moronic tbh[/QUOTE]
No when we leave the EU we'll finally be independent again! Independent from what? Idk, our sanity?
Well, fuck. I hope I get to finish my education here it doesn't end till June/July though.
Idk if to tax Spanish nationality or what. I think I'm able to via naturalization
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