• Riot police in Kyiv have been authorized to use firearms
    169 replies, posted
Russia will probably pull a "Georgia" sometime in this year.
[QUOTE=Prez;43608760]Do we have any Ukrainian users on FP? I haven't seen any post in any of these SH threads but it'd be interesting to see what they see.[/QUOTE] There is that one guy with HL scientist avatar, I guess. Other then that... Nope, I don't recall anyone from ukraine on Facepunch.
[QUOTE=Soret;43609357][IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Ministry_of_Foreign_Affairs_of_Ukraine.JPG/800px-Ministry_of_Foreign_Affairs_of_Ukraine.JPG[/IMG] This.[/QUOTE] This is the Ministry of External Affairs building, before anyone asks
[QUOTE=WhyNott;43609705]There is that one guy with HL scientist avatar, I guess. Other then that... Nope, I don't recall anyone from ukraine on Facepunch.[/QUOTE] I am from Ukraine, but I moved to Ireland 5 years ago, so not sure if this counts, got family in Kiev.
[QUOTE=Killuah;43609546]Russia will probably pull a "Georgia" sometime in this year.[/QUOTE] Aside from the fact that Ukraine was also once part of the Soviet Union there are no parallels.
A month before: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qxjmWAj.jpg[/IMG] A month after (latest): [IMG]http://s3.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/01/85c25647e06df79d4d3082a1988c3db8.png[/IMG] Any progress in protest? - No, I think not. Conclusion? - Perhaps it's time to wrap this shit up, or face the consequences (arrests etc..). Don't forget that these "angry cops and pigs" have families too, except there is one big difference between protester family and police family: protester if he cares for his family he wont go to violent protest, while for police - it's their job to do it.
[QUOTE=Bonde;43608977]You want to see protesters getting beaten, huh? [URL="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c06_1385938540"]Well, here you go[/URL][/QUOTE] They're blocking and getting awfully close to a sensitive government building, they're going to get gassed and stunbombed. That's all on them, and pales in comparison to what they did to those cops. Anyone who is trying to justify what they did to the police is as about as draconian as the people in their parliament. Your freedoms aren't worth the lives of a bunch of cops trying to do their jobs.
Most of these people have no clue what they're even fighting for, they're just opportunists and teenagers looking to bash officers face in. It's really romantic and nice to assume a population is fighting for some righteous cause but it's really not the case here, there are some people in between who are actually politically involved but for every guy like that there are at least 20 psychopaths who just want to burn some shit because they know they'll probably never be caught.
[QUOTE=arleitiss;43609857]A month before: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qxjmWAj.jpg[/IMG] A month after (latest): [IMG]http://s3.hostingkartinok.com/uploads/images/2014/01/85c25647e06df79d4d3082a1988c3db8.png[/IMG] Any progress in protest? - No, I think not. Conclusion? - Perhaps it's time to wrap this shit up, or face the consequences (arrests etc..). Don't forget that these "angry cops and pigs" have families too, except there is one big difference between protester family and police family: protester if he cares for his family he wont go to violent protest, while for police - it's their job to do it.[/QUOTE] So people are supposed to just sit back and let the government take away their rights.
[QUOTE=WhyNott;43609705]There is that one guy with HL scientist avatar, I guess. Other then that... Nope, I don't recall anyone from ukraine on Facepunch.[/QUOTE] Literally 3 posts up :v
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43609908]They're blocking and getting awfully close to a sensitive government building, they're going to get gassed and stunbombed. That's all on them, and pales in comparison to what they did to those cops. Anyone who is trying to justify what they did to the police is as about as draconian as the people in their parliament. Your freedoms aren't worth the lives of a bunch of cops trying to do their jobs.[/QUOTE] What about that one guy near the middle of the video trying to talk to the police, but the cop looks at him and smacks him and starts beating the shit out of them. The fuck.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;43610006]So people are supposed to just sit back and let the government take away their rights.[/QUOTE] As opposed to bashing officers (who were supposedly not doing shit to any of them) faces in? Sure, why not. The protesters aren't exactly a majority across the nation, and refusing to join the EU isn't exactly "stripping them of their rights". They might have a shitty situation on their hands, but they aren't really living in 1984-land here. "Rising up" doesn't mean singling out and beating officers like psychopaths, anyway. If they want to use their "fight for their rights" as a pathway to exert their frustrations and illnesses on singular people, I'm fine with the police crushing them. [editline]20th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;43610114]What about that one guy near the middle of the video trying to talk to the police, but the cop looks at him and smacks him and starts beating the shit out of them. The fuck.[/QUOTE] He wasn't as beaten as badly as the cops that were singled out, and yeah, the cops did fuck up there, but they were fine in charging the rest of the rioters otherwise. You can see later that they start pelting the police with stones and shit, and in most other countries, that's when police can start using rubber bullets.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43610148]As opposed to bashing officers (who were supposedly not doing shit to any of them) faces in? Sure, why not. The protesters aren't exactly a majority across the nation, and refusing to join the EU isn't exactly "stripping them of their rights". They might have a shitty situation on their hands, but they aren't really living in 1984-land here. "Rising up" doesn't mean singling out and beating officers like psychopaths, anyway. If they want to use their "fight for their rights" as a pathway to exert their frustrations and illnesses on singular people, I'm fine with the police crushing them.[/QUOTE] Learn about the situation at least a little bit before you make statements like that, moron. I won't even write an article explaining how and why here. Just open google and do some basic reading. Spoiler: protesters weren't planning on being violent.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43609908]They're blocking and getting awfully close to a sensitive government building, they're going to get gassed and stunbombed. That's all on them, and pales in comparison to what they did to those cops. Anyone who is trying to justify what they did to the police is as about as draconian as the people in their parliament. Your freedoms aren't worth the lives of a bunch of cops trying to do their jobs.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but if you think that the people are going to retake their rights that were stolen by a corrupt system and defending by a corrupt force with simple civil disobedience or some shit, you're in for a rude awakening. No one is going to stop fighting for their cause just because "those poor poor police are just trying to do their job ;_;!!" They picked the wrong side, and this is what happened. They signed up to be part of this. And don't try to counter this by saying that the protesters chose to protest, therefore they should expect this. They shouldn't. The Ukrainian government has a made a horrible and unforgivable mistake, and the protesters are trying to correct it. [QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43610148]I'm fine with the police crushing them[/QUOTE] Wow you are a horrible person.
I bet he received it that way. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HYhuvhdl.jpg[/IMG]
I saw some streams of what was happening on 4chan yesterday. I'm trying to see if any of those are up right now. Will update if I find any.
[QUOTE=The golden;43606411]Russia can't seem to catch a break when it comes to shitty leaders.[/QUOTE] Well the country has arguably been under an unbroken succession of dictatorships since 1547, so I'm not sure if it's just bad luck at this point.
Okay, so let's defend every protester who singles out and violently beats officers once they aren't even with their group and therefor a "threat to their rights" anymore. Not getting what you want out of a protest doesn't really excuse going violent, and as it was posted before, the country isn't homogeneous in who or what they support. Yeah, the government is fucked up with messing with internet communications and granting itself immunity and whatnot, but I'm not gonna use that as an excuse for cheering on singling out and beating people who don't really have a choice in giving up or switching over to the "right" side. Because that's what it means to "fight for their rights". And you know, maybe the police chose the wrong side because this was their job way before all of this started and they would be economically fucked if they left and there's no guarantee that the protests would succeed anyway and so they aren't really left with a choice in the matter. There are no right or wrong sides, anyway. There's only the ones we like and the ones we don't like.
At first I thought it read 'Rust police authorized to use firearms' Guess I've been hanging around that subforum too much
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;43606607]what about him? [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/RIAN_archive_850809_General_Secretary_of_the_CPSU_CC_M._Gorbachev_%28crop%29.jpg[/t] He even disikes putin:[/QUOTE] Exceptions emphasize the principle I suppose.
I don't mean to point out the obvious here, but I actually can't think of any way this is going to end well. The Enabling Act makes it pretty damn clear that the ruling party is not in the interest of really maneuvering within any kind of functional democratic system. Things are either going to implode and the process of getting a functional government in place is going to be quite bloody, or the resulting authoritarian state is also going to make life exceptionally shittier for Ukrainians. But hey, what else can one expect from a government led by a rapist?
Instead of rioting I think I'd rather leave the country while you still have the chance, since the Ukrainian Government seems too stable in general to just "implode" or "collapse", living in an authoritarian state seems much worse.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43609908]They're blocking and getting awfully close to a sensitive government building, they're going to get gassed and stunbombed. That's all on them, and pales in comparison to what they did to those cops. Anyone who is trying to justify what they did to the police is as about as draconian as the people in their parliament. Your freedoms aren't worth the lives of a bunch of cops trying to do their jobs.[/QUOTE] So the Nazi soldier whose jobs were to literally eradicate jews were justified in doing so because it were their job? Your stupid comment is worthy of pulling a Godwin.
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43611389]So the Nazi soldier whose jobs were to literally eradicate jews were justified in doing so because it were their job? Your stupid comment is worthy of pulling a Godwin.[/QUOTE] They sort of had no choice. They did it or the people above them killed them and did it for them. You could blame them for not resisting all at once or whatever, but societies don't exactly work like that and it is a lot harder to break away from a broken or shitty government/societal system than you think. You can blame the leadership and politicians all you want, or the individuals who take pleasure in that kind of shit, I wouldn't care if they got fucked up, but the grunts don't exactly deserve to bear all of the weight. And what the police are doing is absolutely nothing compared to the Holocaust, thinking that my post is worthy of a Godwin in itself is a fuckton more idiotic than my comment could ever be.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43611835]They sort of had no choice. They did it or the people above them killed them and did it for them. You could blame them for not resisting all at once or whatever, but societies don't exactly work like that and it is a lot harder to break away from a broken or shitty government/societal system than you think. You can blame the leadership and politicians all you want, or the individuals who take pleasure in that kind of shit, I wouldn't care if they got fucked up, but the grunts don't exactly deserve to bear all of the weight. And what the police are doing is absolutely nothing compared to the Holocaust, thinking that my post is worthy of a Godwin in itself is a fuckton more idiotic than my comment could ever be.[/QUOTE] Once you start apologizing for the nazis its probably time to stop posting. "Oh I'm just a grunt I'm only following orders" is no excuse.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;43611906]Once you start apologizing for the nazis its probably time to stop posting. "Oh I'm just a grunt I'm only following orders" is no excuse.[/QUOTE] If I had to choose between committing war crimes and the like or ending up like the participants in Operation Valkyrie, guess what I'd choose? I'm not apologizing for the Nazis as a collective, or their leadership, or their atrocities. I'm saying that the guys at the bottom didn't really have a choice. They were drafted, or brought up from the Hitler's Youth. You had an army of individuals built out of people too scared to rise up or with years full of Nazi ideology shoved down their throat. Sweeping movements of resistance were impossible and you can only blame the people up top for that. It's the same thing with the police, except instead of committing genocide they're just violently suppressing protests and riots. They, and their children and families, have to eat too. They're gonna choose their jobs and families over what they think is right or wrong. I'm not going to blame them for choosing the "wrong side".
This is gonna sound kind of petty & trivial given the situation, but I hope [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4A_Games]4A Games[/url] is doing okay. Their hard work has only recently paid off with the Metro series. It would be a shame for them to become a casualty in this mess.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;43606607]what about him? [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/RIAN_archive_850809_General_Secretary_of_the_CPSU_CC_M._Gorbachev_%28crop%29.jpg[/t] He even disikes putin:[/QUOTE] Gorbachev is always credited as a good leader, and I agree he is a man who had good intentions when he was head of the USSR, but his indecision and lack of character as a leader lead to a disastrous collapse of the government. A man with more determination and a strong hand could have simply transitioned the soviet union into a more liberal and open economy, kind of like China is doing (and democratic too).
[QUOTE=barttool;43612033]kind of like China is doing (and democratic too).[/QUOTE] Russia switched over one evil for another. Mainland China's just gonna stick with one.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;43609908]They're blocking and getting awfully close to a sensitive government building, they're going to get gassed and stunbombed. That's all on them, and pales in comparison to what they did to those cops. Anyone who is trying to justify what they did to the police is as about as draconian as the people in their parliament. Your freedoms aren't worth the lives of a bunch of cops trying to do their jobs.[/QUOTE] freedom is pretty much the only thing that is worth someones life. and when the job they're doing is oppressing the people of their country and helping to prop up a corrupt and basically dictatorial regime 'just doing their jobs' isn't much of a justification
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