• Scotland: Salmond and Darling about to begin second TV debate
    60 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Duskin;45798036]Knew it. The audience seemed to like Salmond a lot more.[/QUOTE] One of the questions from the audience was "Alastair darling, you're a scumbag" rather than an actual question or point. Audience were clearly in favour of Salmond, and rather than being a debating audience they'd clearly made up their mind before entering the debating hall
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;45798058]One of the questions from the audience was "Alastair darling, you're a scumbag" rather than an actual question or point. Audience were clearly in favour of Salmond, and rather than being a debating audience they'd clearly made up their mind before entering the debating hall[/QUOTE] That's why they were picked. Normally these sorts of audiences are about 50% one side and 50% the other. I wouldn't say that the audience were pro-yes. They were just a very loud minority. If you actually looked at who was clapping Salmond, it was much fewer people.
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;45798058]One of the questions from the audience was "Alastair darling, you're a scumbag" rather than an actual question or point. Audience were clearly in favour of Salmond, and rather than being a debating audience they'd clearly made up their mind before entering the debating hall[/QUOTE] That happens a lot though. There have been plenty of debates in Northern Ireland where the audience is like 90% Unionist and all the Nationalist points just get jeered simply because they're Nationalists. I guess the audience Isn't really a fair representation of people. The online poll is abit better, but we won't really find out the true division of the country until the actual vote.
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;45798058]One of the questions from the audience was "Alastair darling, you're a scumbag" rather than an actual question or point. Audience were clearly in favour of Salmond, and rather than being a debating audience they'd clearly made up their mind before entering the debating hall[/QUOTE] That's why the picked a fairly even spread of people, you can't expect people to go in without a bias really, it's naive to do that. The debate was organised badly though, and the chair of the debate was weak as fuck and needed to pry the idiots apart occasionally so we could get some decent answers. Any time you watch a political debate they are both going to be slimy as fuck and wriggle away from giving clear and binding answers, or just talk around questions until the debate needs to move on; they are politicians that is their job. If there is another debate we need a drinking game. Take a drink if the Yes campaign uses the words; sovereign will, mandate, bedroom/poll tax, poverty. Take a drink if the No campaign uses the words; risk, volatile, oil, currency, panama
Darling bollocksed it up by lingering on the currency point, hell during the cross examining he asked Salmond about currency almost word for word the same question he asked at the start.
[QUOTE=Chrisordie;45798130]Darling bollocksed it up by lingering on the currency point, hell during the cross examining he asked Salmond about currency almost word for word the same question he asked at the start.[/QUOTE] He really did. The fact that he kept banging on constantly about currency and oil fucked them so hard. Alex Salmond got stuck on a few points, just the same, but overall he delivered his side of it a lot more confidently. Personally I'm a yes voter, but Alex Salmond gave a much better performance there, especially consider the mess he made of the first debate.
Well it looks like its for RIP the UK in its current form. Thanks Darling, hopefully a show like Blackadder will take the absolute piss out of you in 300 years time.
So close, I'm sure if Darling had just asked about currency a few more times he would have nailed it
[QUOTE=Genericenemy;45798171]Well it looks like its for RIP the UK in its current form. Thanks Darling, hopefully a show like Blackadder will take the absolute piss out of you in 300 years time.[/QUOTE] hey you're begrudging the [i]sovereign will of the scottish people and our mandate for freedoms[/i]
[QUOTE=The mouse;45797106]Alex Salmond is so manipulative. The way he stands up away from the podium when he answers questions is such a dirty trick to distract from the answer, the way he mentioned the 1979 referendum at the start without saying that the turnout was so low that nowhere near a majority of people voted for it, invoking Thatcherism as if it's a current argument for independence. His performance is entirely based off appealing to emotion combined with offering no real answers and one-liners.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, I watched a bit of it and when he stepped out I was like "I know thisguy is a prick but he really seems to care about these questions" and then he stood there for like 2 minutes and ended up looking like a twat
Darling got absolutely spanked, Guardian says 71% of people thought Salmond "won" the debate. Darling was cringey to watch as he bumbled along and dodged giving straight answers apart from when he said that Scotland could use the pound. Vote Yes. edit: To those rating disagree, please let me hear your opinions, I want to know what you disagree with me on.
That's true, as a politician he failed. He dodged every question and seemed like a typically shitty politician until he basically burst out that Scotland could use the pound. he fucked up and accidentally gave a solid answer to something
Why Darling?
[QUOTE=Scotty.;45798487]Darling got absolutely spanked, Guardian says 71% of people thought Salmond "won" the debate. Darling was cringey to watch as he bumbled along and dodged giving straight answers apart from when he said that Scotland could use the pound. Vote Yes.[/QUOTE] The BoE will say no. They aren't going to give the pound to a newly independent and [I]possibly[/I] volatile economy before they see the actual effects. The only option I see being truly viable is to create a new currency altogether, potentially transferring to the euro if they can meet the requirements. (Which they currently don't.)
[QUOTE=Streecer;45798728]The BoE will say no. They aren't going to give the pound to a newly independent and [I]possibly[/I] volatile economy before they see the actual effects. The only option I see being truly viable is to create a new currency altogether, potentially transferring to the euro if they can meet the requirements. (Which they currently don't.)[/QUOTE] So they'll gladly take on Scotland's share of debt then if we go it alone? A currency union after Independence is the most sensible option for rUK to keep their voters happy. There's nothing stopping Scotland, in the event of a currency union being declined, making a Scottish Pound that is equal in value to Sterling. [editline]25th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=The mouse;45798080]That's why they were picked. Normally these sorts of audiences are about 50% one side and 50% the other. I wouldn't say that the audience were pro-yes. They were just a very loud minority. If you actually looked at who was clapping Salmond, it was much fewer people.[/QUOTE] The BBC is a very no-biased organisation, it's in their best interest as a business to portray Darling in the best light, but still have a fair audience in the interest of fairness. Salmond just stomped him.
[QUOTE=Scotty.;45798807]So they'll gladly take on Scotland's share of debt then if we go it alone? A currency union after Independence is the most sensible option for rUK to keep their voters happy. There's nothing stopping Scotland, in the event of a currency union being declined, making a Scottish Pound that is equal in value to Sterling.[/QUOTE] You know, except for silly things like investor confidence, GDP, stability etc. Scotland can't just pull a new currency of equal value out of it's ass when it loses the pound. It's going to be naturally less valuable due to it's untested nature. Scotland will probably have to pay off it's debt, if it doesn't it will end up with high interest rates that hurt it in the long run.
[QUOTE=Streecer;45798877]You know, except for silly things like investor confidence, GDP, stability etc. Scotland can't just pull a new currency of equal value out of it's ass when it loses the pound. It's going to be naturally less valuable due to it's untested nature. Scotland will probably have to pay off it's debt, if it doesn't it will end up with high interest rates that hurt it in the long run.[/QUOTE] Denmark does pretty well and the Krone is pegged to the Euro.
[QUOTE=Scotty.;45798900]Denmark does pretty well and the Krone is pegged to the Euro.[/QUOTE] Denmark and Scotland have pretty different economies. What works well for one country won't necessarily work well for another. Even then the Krone has been around for decades to establish itself. Scotland's currency won't be as strong out of the gate. It's also implying that the new currency will be tied to the euro, which we don't know yet.
I didn't watch the debate, did Salmond explain what his currency plan B is if we become independent?
[QUOTE=TheCactusman;45799064]I didn't watch the debate, did Salmond explain what his currency plan B is if we become independent?[/QUOTE] He was like 'there are other options such as an independent currency or the euro but I want to get what's best for Scotland'
[QUOTE=Scotty.;45798487] edit: To those rating disagree, please let me hear your opinions, I want to know what you disagree with me on.[/QUOTE] I live in England and I don't like watching the United Kingdom die without being able to do anything about it.
[QUOTE=Scotty.;45798487]Darling got absolutely spanked, Guardian says 71% of people thought Salmond "won" the debate. Darling was cringey to watch as he bumbled along and dodged giving straight answers apart from when he said that Scotland could use the pound. Vote Yes. edit: To those rating disagree, please let me hear your opinions, I want to know what you disagree with me on.[/QUOTE] Salmond got completely fucked when answering about the Trident program.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45799402]I live in England and I don't like watching the United Kingdom die without being able to do anything about it.[/QUOTE] Why don't you want the UK to die? Just curious, how would It change your life?
[QUOTE=Duskin;45799492]Why don't you want the UK to die? Just curious, how would It change your life?[/QUOTE] Because I don't see the UK in terms of England, Scotland and Wales. I see us all as British. It seems trivial to me that Scotland should tear up such a 300 year old union over temporary trivial issues such as Trident or Austerity when we share so much more. We have a common Language, Land, History and currency and so many shared institutions, it doesn't make sense to me why the Scots would want independence. Scottish independence would negatively effect both Scotland and the rest of the UK on the world stage. What's left of the UK might be demoted to a second rate power on account of losing about 1/4 of it's territory. The Politics of the UK would be almost certainly changed by Scottish Independence. Wales might too want independence one day and then what? We're left with a broken much diminished shell of what used to be 1 prosperous nation that shared resources but now are 3 nations all acting foreign to each other.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45799705]Because I don't see the UK in terms of England, Scotland and Wales. I see us all as British. It seems trivial to me that Scotland should tear up such a 300 year old union over temporary trivial issues such as Trident or Austerity when we share so much more. We have a common Language, Land, History and currency and so many shared institutions, it doesn't make sense to me why the Scots would want independence. Scottish independence would negatively effect both Scotland and the rest of the UK on the world stage. What's left of the UK might be demoted to a second rate power on account of losing about 1/4 of it's territory. The Politics of the UK would be almost certainly changed by Scottish Independence. Wales might too want independence one day and then what? We're left with a broken much diminished shell of what used to be 1 prosperous nation that shared resources but now are 3 nations all acting foreign to each other.[/QUOTE] You may see them all as British, but a lot of them don't see themselves like that. I mean, If you went up to someone in Scotland or NI and said "You're British because you're in the UK", you could seriously get a bottle smashed in your face. I see the UK as a type of alliance, but in name only. I find It ironic that It's called the United Kingdom, but we're not really united. The UK doesn't really have a "culture". It's just several different countries with one border. As for saying Independence would ruin the UK, you're right though. If they did get Independence, stuff would get fired up in Northern Ireland and then the UK would probably consist of Wales+England. Personally, I would love Scotland to get independence cause I'm a Northern Irish Nationalist + It would help our case over here. As for sharing resources, trading would still happen. Just because borders are different doesn't mean we wouldn't trade with our neighbors.
[QUOTE=The mouse;45799705]Because I don't see the UK in terms of England, Scotland and Wales. I see us all as British. It seems trivial to me that Scotland should tear up such a 300 year old union over temporary trivial issues such as Trident or Austerity when we share so much more. We have a common Language, Land, History and currency and so many shared institutions, it doesn't make sense to me why the Scots would want independence. Scottish independence would negatively effect both Scotland and the rest of the UK on the world stage. What's left of the UK might be demoted to a second rate power on account of losing about 1/4 of it's territory. The Politics of the UK would be almost certainly changed by Scottish Independence. Wales might too want independence one day and then what? We're left with a broken much diminished shell of what used to be 1 prosperous nation that shared resources but now are 3 nations all acting foreign to each other.[/QUOTE] But we're not one country. By name yes, but Scottish social attitudes and political ideas are very different to an English or a Welsh way of thinking, e.g Scotland only getting the government we want when England decides to vote Labour, and your good self saying that subjects like Trident or Austerity are trivial. These are not trivial matters, matters that Scots seem to care a lot more about than the English. We are all different, even though we may live amongst each other. This isn't about shared history. This isn't about the last 300 years, this is about the next 300 years. Aye great things may have happened, and that's fine. A lot of people in Scotland see the UK as failing them, and we want to be able to make our decisions without outside interference. Like any other country should. Independence may negatively effect England. And it sounds very blunt to say, but if that's what makes things better for Scotland, and unless Scotland gets more powers in the event of a no vote, then so be it. And I'm not anti-English, not in the slightest. It's dumb to say but you'd have to be Scottish to really understand what I mean, it's strange.
[QUOTE=Duskin;45799840]You may see them all as British, but a lot of them don't see themselves like that. I mean, If you went up to someone in Scotland or NI and said "You're British because you're in the UK", you could seriously get a bottle smashed in your face. [/QUOTE] Same applies to most of northern England and most of Liverpool. Hell even Thatcher said that Scots and Scousers were scum and shouldn't be classed as 'British.' I'm a Yes voter. Both politician's are as bad as eachother but at least Salmond is making a positive case for his views. I'm fed up of all the negativity surrounding the No campaign. The scare tactics got old months ago. I'm also fed up of seeing things go to shit because of Westminster rule and the idea that the UK is a democracy is a fucking joke. A country ruled by a handful of rich noblemen is not one I wish to be governed by - the house of lords can burn in hell. [editline]26th August 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Scotty.;45799867]But we're not one country. By name yes, but Scottish social attitudes and political ideas are very different to an English or a Welsh way of thinking, e.g Scotland only getting the government we want when England decides to vote Labour, and your good self saying that subjects like Trident or Austerity are trivial. These are not trivial matters, matters that Scots seem to care a lot more about than the English. We are all different, even though we may live amongst each other. This isn't about shared history. This isn't about the last 300 years, this is about the next 300 years. Aye great things may have happened, and that's fine. A lot of people in Scotland see the UK as failing them, and we want to be able to make our decisions without outside interference. Like any other country should. Independence may negatively effect England. And it sounds very blunt to say, but if that's what makes things better for Scotland, and unless Scotland gets more powers in the event of a yes vote, then so be it. And I'm not anti-English, not in the slightest. It's dumb to say but you'd have to be Scottish to really understand what I mean, it's strange.[/QUOTE] I agree with all this. I'm not anti-English either, most of my family lives in England, Then again they are scousers so they like to disassociate themselves with the rest of the country. They themselves are voicing strong opinions on the referendum, the older relatives especially: they see the bright future of Scotland and are desperate for the likes of me and my siblings to have the best possible future.
[QUOTE=Wickerman123;45800051]Same applies to most of northern England and most of Liverpool. Hell even Thatcher said that Scots and Scousers were scum and shouldn't be classed as 'British.' [/QUOTE] Is there a source on this? Also the House of Lords has had next to no real power for 100 years.
[QUOTE=Scotty.;45799867]And I'm not anti-English, not in the slightest. It's dumb to say but you'd have to be Scottish to really understand what I mean, it's strange.[/QUOTE] You don't have to be exclusively Scottish to understand. You're acting like Scotland and England are completely segregated, there's plenty of English citizens who live in Scotland who fully understand the situation in Scotland.
[QUOTE=Genericenemy;45798171]Well it looks like its for RIP the UK in its current form. Thanks Darling, hopefully a show like Blackadder will take the absolute piss out of you in 300 years time.[/QUOTE] Speaking of Blackadder, If you replace Salmond with Witchsmeller Pursuivant and Darling with Blackadder, Percy and Baldrick, you pretty much have a good comparison for Salmond's crossexamination imo :v: [video=youtube;fYJZqJezjz4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYJZqJezjz4[/video]
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