Government threatens bakery for refusing to bake cake for lesbian wedding
165 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Stroma;41922980]how is paedophilia any less moral than same sex couples? much like 'moral' sex, not all acts of paedophilia are acts of rape.[/QUOTE]
Because two men having sex is okay because both parties are consenting. Children are easily manipulated and don't have a clear understanding of what sex is.
I seriously can't believe you think both are similar
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923010]i'm not trolling
[editline]22nd August 2013[/editline]
you're just running from the question because you can't answer it[/QUOTE]
To answer your insensitive hypothetical, yes its still discrimination.
[QUOTE=3picFail;41923054]To answer your insensitive hypothetical, yes its still discrimination.[/QUOTE]
that wasn't even what the post i quoted was about; i asked how paedophilia was any less immoral than gay sex. i think when many people think about paedophilia they think about some old man fucking a 9 year old, but it's having sex with anybody under the age of consent. why should a law determine what is moral and immoral?
I'm against discrimination and all, but a business [i]should[/i] be allowed to do what they'd like. The owners pay for everything and the such. This doesn't mean I'm for this, but taking away their freedom because of their views on a person's sexuality is ridiculous, and should be taken care of some other way instead of "the government" stepping in.
[QUOTE=kwk;41923101]I'm against discrimination and all, but a business [i]should[/i] be allowed to do what they'd like. The owners pay for everything and the such. This doesn't mean I'm for this, but taking away their freedom because of their views on a person's sexuality is ridiculous, and should be taken care of some other way instead of "the government" stepping in.[/QUOTE]
except no business is 100% self owned and operated, every business has tax breaks, every business needs government funded utilities to operate
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923081]that wasn't even what the post i quoted was about; i asked how paedophilia was any less immoral than gay sex. i think when many people think about paedophilia they think about some old man fucking a 9 year old, but it's having sex with anybody under the age of consent. why should a law determine what is moral and immoral?[/QUOTE]
This
[QUOTE=Stroma;41922834]would this have the same reaction if they refused a cake for a paedophiles wedding?[/QUOTE]
Is the question i was answering. Of course the government involvement is based upon the situations attention being brought to it, and I doubt that any pedo would want that kind of attention. Anyways, as long as the pedo isn't marrying a kid the bakery could still be threatened with discrimination, its just highly unlikely that would happen.
[editline]21st August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=kwk;41923101]I'm against discrimination and all, but a business [i]should[/i] be allowed to do what they'd like. The owners pay for everything and the such. This doesn't mean I'm for this, but taking away their freedom because of their views on a person's sexuality is ridiculous, and should be taken care of some other way instead of "the government" stepping in.[/QUOTE]
They aren't disallowing them from having their views. They have the freedom to do whatever they want with their shop, as long as its not illegal. Discrimination is illegal when based upon civil rights.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;41923135]What kind of question is this? Laws are almost entirely based of some sort of moral premise.[/QUOTE]
like the law in alaska that prevents you from whispering in somebodies ear while moose hunting, the law in north dakota that prevents you from lying down and falling asleep with shoes on or the pennsylvania law where it's illegal to sleep ontop of a fridge outdoors? you seem to have some strange morals.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;41923253]I know I didn't just have some guy who supports child marriage tell me I have strange morals.[/QUOTE]
nowhere in my posts did i say i support child marriage; if you interpreted that way, it was not meant to be. i simply asked how paedophilia is less moral than same sex, which nobody has been able to give me a satisfactory answer to. your posts are obviously trying to demonize me, which is why i tend to avoid answering you.
Stroma diddies kiddies.
Would they get prosecuted at all if they denied service for "undisclosed reasons"?
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923285]nowhere in my posts did i say i support child marriage; if you interpreted that way, it was not meant to be. i simply asked how paedophilia is less moral than same sex, which nobody has been able to give me a satisfactory answer to. your posts are obviously trying to demonize me, which is why i tend to avoid answering you.[/QUOTE]
Its less moral because children cannot give consent, do not fully understand what they are doing, and are at high chance of abuse.
It should be frigging obvious why paedophilia is wrong.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;41923316]If you have to ask why child marriage is on a completely different moral level than same sex marriage then you either support child marriage or you have a completely baseless hatred for same sex marriage.
You have a way of dancing around the fact that you shoe-horned in this pedophilia comparison in this thread while trying to make it a mystery that it was in the name of bigotry.[/QUOTE]
i neither support child marriage nor do i have a baseless hate for same sex marriage. i believe the bakery has a right to refuse service to those who offend their beliefs, and asked the paedophilia question to see if facepunch were hypocrites. they, too, believe you can refuse service based on your beliefs, but only if the person asking the question is breaking a law, and therefore their subjective moral standards. the moral standards of the business dictate that being homosexual is immoral.
[QUOTE=Blind Lulu;41923423]Do you believe that the bakery has a right to refuse service to a white woman who wants to marry a black man? Not too long ago interracial marriage used to be illegal.[/QUOTE]
if the owners of the bakery feels that being part of that marriage is against their beliefs, than yes. however, i support interracial marriage, i just simply feel the bakery shouldn't be forced into doing something against their belief system.
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923461]if the owners of the bakery feels that being part of that marriage is against their beliefs, than yes. however, i support interracial marriage, i just simply feel the bakery shouldn't be forced into doing something against their belief system.[/QUOTE]
so you'd support the bakery refusing to serve blacks or jews? or women? or muslims?
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;41923468]so you'd support the bakery refusing to serve blacks or jews? or women? or muslims?[/QUOTE]
would serving any of those groups reasonably offend the beliefs of the owners? if so, yes, if not, then no.
[QUOTE=TheCombine;41923366]Would they get prosecuted at all if they denied service for "undisclosed reasons"?[/QUOTE]
In technicality, no. The couple could probably figure out why they weren't served though, and "we have the freedom to choose who do and do not serve" wouldn't have much upholding in the judiciary system in this situation, even if they never said it had to do with their sexuality.
Stroma lays lads and mounts moppets.
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923485]would serving any of those groups reasonably offend the beliefs of the owners? if so, yes, if not, then no.[/QUOTE]
alright then we fundamentally disagree on this issue. i don't think businesses should have the right to discriminate based on race, religion, sexuality or anything like that
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923461]if the owners of the bakery feels that being part of that marriage is against their beliefs, than yes. however, i support interracial marriage, i just simply feel the bakery shouldn't be forced into doing something against their belief system.[/QUOTE]
The simple answer to this is that democracy is never perfect, freedom always has a price, and regardless of your beliefs you can never impede upon another persons rights.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;41923503]alright then we fundamentally disagree on this issue. i don't think businesses should have the right to discriminate based on race, religion, sexuality or anything like that[/QUOTE]
"I agree completely (unless it's a race, religion, or type of sexuality that I dislike). Because, after all, aren't gays and child molesters essentially the same thing, and also is child molestation even really so wrong? What were we talking about again?"
-Me, channeling Stroma circa 2013
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41923499]Stroma lays lads and mounts moppets.[/QUOTE]
Flaming? Weren't you a mod a some point?
[QUOTE=3picFail;41923537]Flaming? Weren't you a mod a some point?[/QUOTE]
how is that flaming? it's not like stroma is offended he sees nothing immoral about paedophilic(is this a word?) sex
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;41923546]how is that flaming? it's not like stroma is offended he sees nothing immoral about paedophilic(is this a word?) sex[/QUOTE]
I don't see how he is adding anything useful to this thread. It seems like hes taunting stroma by calling him a pedophile despite the fact that he said that he doesn't support pedophilia.
I'm not trying to backseat moderate, I'm just asking that this stops before it goes out of hand.
Also stop putting words in peoples mouths:
[QUOTE=Stroma;41923389]i neither support child marriage nor do i have a baseless hate for same sex marriage. i believe the bakery has a right to refuse service to those who offend their beliefs, and asked the paedophilia question to see if facepunch were hypocrites.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=3picFail;41923537]Flaming? Weren't you a mod a some point?[/QUOTE]
flaming is only if it's over the top assholishness
this is quite polite as are all bda brand burns
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41923535]"I agree completely (unless it's a race, religion, or type of sexuality that I dislike). Because, after all, aren't gays and child molesters essentially the same thing, and also is child molestation even really so wrong? What were we talking about again?"
-Me, channeling Stroma circa 2013[/QUOTE]
except i never said i didn't like any race, religion or sexuality. i'm aware my posts imply that i am against them, but i never said i had a problem with them. also, ad hominem is a logical fallacy.
[QUOTE=3picFail;41923571]I don't see how he is adding anything useful to this thread. It seems like hes taunting stroma by calling him a pedophile despite the fact that he said that he doesn't support pedophilia.
I'm not trying to backseat moderate, I'm just asking that this stops before it goes out of hand.[/QUOTE]
actually he's either supporting pedophilia or feels that pedophilia is the same thing as homosexuality
so yes that's pretty bad
Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. Like Stroma says, there's nothing wrong with molesting children. In fact, they probably like it. Seek it out, even! It's barely even a child molester's fault if he succumbs to his taste for teenies; he's just an unwitting pawn in their lust-crazed machinations.
[editline]21st August 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=3picFail;41923571]I don't see how he is adding anything useful to this thread. It seems like hes taunting stroma by calling him a pedophile despite the fact that he said that he doesn't support pedophilia.
I'm not trying to backseat moderate, I'm just asking that this stops before it goes out of hand.[/QUOTE]
Except he pretty specifically spoke out in favor of molesting children, so...! Yeah, I'm poking fun. I'm being absurd to reveal absurdity. What Stroma said is straight borked, and I think some exposition might be in order! Stroma, if you'd care to expand, then by all means. Otherwise, I'm just going to continue giggling about all of the alliterative ways to say you manhandle minors.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;41923576]flaming is only if it's over the top assholishness
this is quite polite as are all bda brand burns[/QUOTE]
I know his popularity has pull here, but his comments are baseless and unnecessary. Maybe flaming isn't the right word, but that justifies nothing.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41923592]Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. Like Stroma says, there's nothing wrong with molesting children. In fact, they probably like it. Seek it out, even! It's barely even a child molester's fault if he succumbs to his taste for teenies; he's just an unwitting pawn in their lust-crazed machinations.
[editline]21st August 2013[/editline]
Except he pretty specifically spoke out in favor of molesting children, so...![/QUOTE]
[quote]
Sexual abuse, also referred to as molestation, is the forcing of undesired sexual behavior by one person upon another.[/quote]
i don't support child rape, and if i remember correctly i've stated that already. i don't support molestation of children, but i would endorse [b]consensual[/b] sex with somebody not of the age of consent. the fact you're getting "agrees" is actually pretty sad
[QUOTE=3picFail;41923571]I don't see how he is adding anything useful to this thread. It seems like hes taunting stroma by calling him a pedophile despite the fact that he said that he doesn't support pedophilia.
I'm not trying to backseat moderate, I'm just asking that this stops before it goes out of hand.
Also stop putting words in peoples mouths:[/QUOTE]
way to quote the wrong post, he literally agreed with me anyway so i don't think he needs you to protect him from big bad american
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