• Microsoft reportedly working to block apps that re-enable the Windows 8 Start button
    447 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Panda X;36161709]Stuff like the start menu, charms, the app switcher. Sure we know about it since we read through the development of it, but to the average user, they're not going to know that any of this exists. Example the start button. While it's still there, there's no visual indicator that it's still there, hell look how everyone went to shit when the news came out "they "removed" the start button". People going to shit asking "how will I open the start menu/screen" etc. [/QUOTE] Tech support will get bombarded with people asking where's the start button and if their copy of windows is broken.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36161787]Tech support will get bombarded with people asking where's the start button and if their copy of windows is broken.[/QUOTE] And how to shut it down. The average user doesn't CTRL+ALT+DEL, they use the bloody start menu!
[QUOTE=inconspicious;36161876]And how to shut it down. The average user doesn't CTRL+ALT+DEL, they use the bloody start menu![/QUOTE] I don't understand why they would hide something as basic and important as shut down button deep in metro menus. User friendly my ass.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36161917]I don't understand why they would hide something as basic and important as shut down button deep in metro menus. User friendly my ass.[/QUOTE] Metro is for the visually impaired, that's the only kind of user it actually suits.
[QUOTE=inconspicious;36161949]Metro is for the visually impaired, that's the only kind of user it actually suits.[/QUOTE]Blind people can't tell if computer is on or off :v:
You know, one thing came out of it. Metro works really well on screens < 10" and > 30", as in a tablet or HDTV.
I'm actually surprised at Microsoft, this sounds more like something Apple would try to pull. I don't see the point in disabling something that only power users would use as long as there isn't a security risk behind it.
Have they fixed the absolutely terrible DPI scaling on windows yet?
Can someone explain why this is in any way a problem, please?
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;36162334]Can someone explain why this is in any way a problem, please?[/QUOTE] By this you mean ... ?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36162378]By this you mean ... ?[/QUOTE] I'm having trouble seeing why it matters. They've already gotten rid of the old start menu. What difference is getting rid of the start button going to make? It was great with the old start menu because it meant that your mouse was already in the perfect position for using it but now that it takes up the whole screen, it takes no longer to use the start button on your keyboard. Besides, I only ever used the start menu for search so it's better for me using the keyboards start button since it means my hands are already on the keyboard and search works exactly the same with the new start screen.
[QUOTE=Panda X;36161709]Stuff like the start menu, charms, the app switcher. Sure we know about it since we read through the development of it, but to the average user, they're not going to know that any of this exists. Example the start button. While it's still there, there's no visual indicator that it's still there, hell look how everyone went to shit when the news came out "they "removed" the start button". People going to shit asking "how will I open the start menu/screen" etc. [editline]1st June 2012[/editline] It falls back to 640x480 if it can't be displayed at that resolution, and I believe if it doesn't work then it falls back to a black screen with the error on it.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call that "advanced settings" but yeah, that's definitely some stuff they fucked up.
[QUOTE=Tobba,;36161672]Also what the fuck were they thinking when they changed the "BSOD" Old one was drawn with the console mode because everything ever supports that perfectly no matter how hard everything crashes, the new one has a resoloution beyond what the standard VGA hardware handles and looks like uses some kind of font rendering As in its completely fucking pointless now because most crashes will cause the screen to fail to display properly anyways[/QUOTE] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_setting]Kernel mode setting[/url]
[QUOTE=Panda X;36161709]Stuff like the start menu, charms, the app switcher. Sure we know about it since we read through the development of it, but to the average user, they're not going to know that any of this exists. Example the start button. While it's still there, there's no visual indicator that it's still there, hell look how everyone went to shit when the news came out "they "removed" the start button". People going to shit asking "how will I open the start menu/screen" etc. [editline]1st June 2012[/editline] It falls back to 640x480 if it can't be displayed at that resolution, and I believe if it doesn't work then it falls back to a black screen with the error on it.[/QUOTE] This is the big trouble. People are used to how Windows 7 works and will find it hard to adapt to 8. They'll need to come up with some kind of really good tutorial for it.
And it's a stupid argument because nobody reads the error text on a BSOD. I've had plenty of them on Win7 so I would know. It auto reboots before you get a chance to try to read it even if you cared to. Additionally, on the next reboot Windows 7 gives you dialog box when you login that contains your BSOD information anyway.
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;36162559]This is the big trouble. People are used to how Windows 7 works and will find it hard to adapt to 8. They'll need to come up with some kind of really good tutorial for it.[/QUOTE]If it will pop up when you first launch windows, no one will watch it. Just like with that intro thingy in XP
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;36162559]This is the big trouble. People are used to how Windows 7 works and will find it hard to adapt to 8. They'll need to come up with some kind of really good tutorial for it.[/QUOTE] Good software shouldn't require a tutorial. Ironically, this was something Microsoft espoused in the past.
Well, the only reason people don't need a tutorial to use their current Windows PCs is because everyone's used to it by now. There's just a couple of pretty important things in Windows 8 that people need to know to get the best use out of it. It can't be that hard for people to get used to once they know it's all there. It's just not clear at all that it is there. It's kind of like the desktop button at the bottom right in Windows 7. It's not clear at all that it's there and so many people have absolutely no idea about it. It's just a little inconspicuous rectangle with no indication on it. This is a pretty big issue and they've got to do something to make sure people know what they're missing.
Windows 8 looks like a fucking [B]Xbox 360[/B] interface. Why in gods name would I want an Xbox 360 interface on my PC? Does this mean if I every buy a new PC its going to come with this shit? Cause I will defect back an OS in a heartbeat. Seriously, this takes all PC users freedom on a PC, and it just looks horrible. It doesn't even look like you can problem solve any more, it looks like it is for old people who don't know how to use a PC. Jesus Christ Microsoft how much can you fuck up and change what a computer actually is and then expect to still have a real fucking profit margin...
[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;36162779]Well, the only reason people don't need a tutorial to use their current Windows PCs is because everyone's used to it by now. There's just a couple of pretty important things in Windows 8 that people need to know to get the best use out of it. It can't be that hard for people to get used to once they know it's all there. It's just not clear at all that it is there. It's kind of like the desktop button at the bottom right in Windows 7. It's not clear at all that it's there and so many people have absolutely no idea about it. It's just a little inconspicuous rectangle with no indication on it. This is a pretty big issue and they've got to do something to make sure people know what they're missing.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the porn hider button.
[QUOTE=redBadger;36159517] The start menu issue is petty and people can grow the fuck up about it not being there. If not, they can download something to put it back in.[/QUOTE] You're not very good at reading. The entire thread is about how they're BLOCKING those kinds of things so you CAN'T put it back in. And that isn't even the point, it's the principle of it. We don't WANT it taken out and they're not listening to us. The CONSUMER BASE who you are marketing your product to, needs to be listened to. If no one is happy with your product no one will buy it. If the consumers want Aero and the Start Button so fucking what? Fuck your stupid company's "new image" make Metro default and add in options for the consumer to use other themes, like Windows 7. IIRC there's a "Vista" theme in Windows 7. Why can't there be a "Windows 7" theme in Windows 8?
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;36163486]You're not very good at reading. The entire thread is about how they're BLOCKING those kinds of things so you CAN'T put it back in. [/QUOTE] You're not very good at reading either. It has been stated multiple times that this article is full of shit, and those workarounds still work in the release preview. I'm getting sick of people of this forum just reading the thread title and then having a spaz attack.
"Release Preview" is a beta. It's FAR from release material. If they're working to remove it now it will be gone by the time it hits shelves, you prat.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;36163779]"Release Preview" is a beta. It's FAR from release material. If they're working to remove it now it will be gone by the time it hits shelves, you prat.[/QUOTE] It's the release candidate.
Which means it's still undergoing revisions.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;36163486]You're not very good at reading. The entire thread is about how they're BLOCKING those kinds of things so you CAN'T put it back in. And that isn't even the point, it's the principle of it. We don't WANT it taken out and they're not listening to us. The CONSUMER BASE who you are marketing your product to, needs to be listened to. If no one is happy with your product no one will buy it. If the consumers want Aero and the Start Button so fucking what? Fuck your stupid company's "new image" make Metro default and add in options for the consumer to use other themes, like Windows 7. IIRC there's a "Vista" theme in Windows 7. Why can't there be a "Windows 7" theme in Windows 8?[/QUOTE] a) Microsoft is not actively blocking any apps. They aren't blocking you from recreating a start menu or bringing in your own solution. They are removing legacy code. In the same vein progman.exe was removed (you remember progman right?) b) the majority of people anywhere and everywhere are CHANGE IS BAD. I HATE CHANGE. uinless it's something miniscule. It usually takes a year or more for actually choices on the change to emerge among the general populace.
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;36163817]Which means it's still undergoing revisions.[/QUOTE] A release candidate means if there are no remaining bugs it releases as is. So if no bugs are found in this build, then this build is released. Microsoft will change the build number but that's about it.
[QUOTE=Tobba,;36161672]Also what the fuck were they thinking when they changed the "BSOD" Old one was drawn with the console mode because everything ever supports that perfectly no matter how hard everything crashes, the new one has a resoloution beyond what the standard VGA hardware handles and looks like uses some kind of font rendering As in its completely fucking pointless now because most crashes will cause the screen to fail to display properly anyways[/QUOTE] They replaced it with a sad face, seriously what the fuck? Why don't they just put a giant fucking text dick instead while they're at it?
[QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;36163486]You're not very good at reading. The entire thread is about how they're BLOCKING those kinds of things so you CAN'T put it back in. And that isn't even the point, it's the principle of it. We don't WANT it taken out and they're not listening to us. The CONSUMER BASE who you are marketing your product to, needs to be listened to. If no one is happy with your product no one will buy it. If the consumers want Aero and the Start Button so fucking what? Fuck your stupid company's "new image" make Metro default and add in options for the consumer to use other themes, like Windows 7. IIRC there's a "Vista" theme in Windows 7. Why can't there be a "Windows 7" theme in Windows 8?[/QUOTE] Couple of points. 1) This article is complete nonsense, they're not blocking anything. It said these methods don't work in the RC when they do, I tried it myself. 2) We're a small subset of the people who'll be experiencing Windows 8, whether we buy it or just try it out. Many people bitched and complained about the 10 extra pixels on 7's taskbar before it came out. There were people who bitched and complained about 7's Libraries being too confusing (which is why Microsoft removed it from Vista before release), people bitched and complained about Aero during Vista's development, there were people who bitched and complained about the breadcrumbs in explorer, there were people who bitched and complained about the command bar in explorer, there were people who bitched and complained about the start menu in Vista/XP/ and 95. It's not easy for Microsoft to determine what will fail and what will end up succeeding in the long run. A lot of people bitch about a lot of things that end up being liked after users use them for a while. The previous start menu's functionality is still there, the fullscreen might be bothersome for some people but it's all still there.
[QUOTE=Van-man;36144376]Riding the wave. I strongly dislike the idea of a desktop OS that's heavily inspired by OS's for small mobile devices with touchscreens as their main type of input.[/QUOTE] Microsoft thinks they can get more money by following a fad, and while yes it's true, they're doing it wrong. "GUYS! MOTION GAMING IS MAKING SO MUCH MONEY, LET'S MAKE A COPY!" And now, it's "GUYS! BIG ICONS AND APPS ARE MAKING SO MUCH MONEY, LET'S MAKE A COPY!" R&D needs to get slapped
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