Microsoft reportedly working to block apps that re-enable the Windows 8 Start button
447 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Perl;36144673]it's just like windows 7 except the start menu looks different and the OS works faster because it has to work well on mobile devices
that's it
looks different
that's all it is
the start menu looking different and OS being faster fucks you over?[/QUOTE]
The point again is that there is no option to switch between the Start Menu and the Metro Menu, which is punishing KB+mouse users.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36144690][b]The Express version can only develop Metro apps[/b] and they changed the UI because "why not."[/QUOTE]
What the fuck? Why.
also, isn't it in beta?
[QUOTE=Perl;36144685]There was nothing wrong with VS 2008, everything was perfect there.
What's your point?[/QUOTE]
the new visual studio for windows 8 only makes metro apps.
[QUOTE=Coffee;36144745]the new visual studio for windows 8 only makes metro apps.[/QUOTE]
That's only Express
[url]https://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/en-us/products/express[/url]
[QUOTE]Customers want rich, new experiences for work, play, and entertainment. [B]Visual Studio 11 Express Beta for Windows 8 unlocks the power to develop Metro style applications[/B] that deliver these experiences.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36144690]The Express version can only develop Metro apps and they changed the UI because "why not."[/QUOTE]
Then use vs10? Also, getting Vs11 Ultimate is piss easy if you're a student.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36144753]That's only Express
[url]https://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/11/en-us/products/express[/url][/QUOTE]
Well I hope they have non-metro in VS11 Express once the real version is released.
Otherwise I can see why it's bullshit.
[QUOTE=Perl;36144773]Well I hope they have non-metro in VS11 Express once the real version is released.
Otherwise I can see why it's bullshit.[/QUOTE]
Or, you know. They'll force everyone to use Metro and make Metro apps, and we can say goodbye to programs and everything.
[QUOTE=Zeriga;36144804]Or, you know. They'll force everyone to use Metro and make Metro apps, and we can say goodbye to programs and everything.[/QUOTE]
Seeing as a lot of end-users for software development still use XP I think that will be awhile out
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36144833]Seeing as a lot of end-users for software development still use XP I think that will be awhile out[/QUOTE]
But what if they also decide to remove program functionality in Windows 8, and make everyone use Apps?
[QUOTE=Zeriga;36144857]But what if they also decide to remove program functionality in Windows 8, and make everyone use Apps?[/QUOTE]
It would be the biggest blunder in computer history. This Metro-App nonesense is extremely agressive. I am all up for new things, but you can't just weed out what millions of users are accustomed to for several years.
[QUOTE=Datsun;36144892]It would be the biggest blunder in computer history.[/QUOTE]
Things that are more stupid then that have happened in history, I wouldn't be surprised.
[QUOTE=Perl;36144773]Well I hope they have non-metro in VS11 Express once the real version is released.
Otherwise I can see why it's bullshit.[/QUOTE]
NOW you're starting to see things our way.
Because given Microsofts current attitude it's highly unlikely that VS11 Express will be usable for anything else than Metro related things.
[QUOTE=Bumrang;36143334]I don't remember when I haven't. I rarely use my desktop for opening programs, I always just type in the application into the search bar and instantly open it.[/QUOTE]
But that is just one tiny feature of the start button.
I mean, I use 2 clicks.
And you wouldn't even need the start button too if there was a search bar integrated in Metro. Maybe by keypress.
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt. Lulz;36143348]I do.
And when I last started Control Panel through Start.
And My PC.
And My Documents.
Microsoft is being fucking retarded with Windows 8.[/QUOTE]
I have that linked on the desktop.
Jesus Christ, what a sensational headline.
They're not actively trying to block programs that bring back the start menu. Its just a side effect of them cleaning up legacy code. They did the same thing with Windows 7's Super Bar as well.
[QUOTE=Van-man;36144923]NOW you're starting to see things our way.
Because given Microsofts current attitude it's highly unlikely that VS11 Express will be usable for anything else than Metro related things.[/QUOTE]
Well damn.
I mean, if they had metro forced, ok. Can deal with it, but if they force everyone to use metro apps it's fucking stupid and they should die in a fire.
[QUOTE=Perl;36144987]Well damn.
I mean, if they had metro forced, ok. Can deal with it, but if they force everyone to use metro apps it's fucking stupid and they should die in a fire.[/QUOTE]
Aaaand I can see this happening, them forcing everyone to use "Apps" instead of programs.
[img]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/085/Kornheiser_Why.JPG[/img]
This is [B]STUPID.[/B]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Image macro / Meme" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Perl;36144987]Well damn.
I mean, if they had metro forced, ok. Can deal with it, but if they force everyone to use metro apps it's fucking stupid and they should die in a fire.[/QUOTE]
Microsoft is more then just aggressive in pushing metro onto the masses.
It's borderlining to bullying.
You can still bring it back with third party programs. I'm not entirely sure what code they removed but it's still easy to add back a 3rd party start menu.
They're more than likely cleaning up leftover code that isn't used anymore rather than attacking 3rd party developers.
Either way users should still have a choice as to how they use the OS.
Also reading this thread and it seems like a lot of people think that Metro apps are mandatory and you can't use mouse and keyboard on the start screen. I could be wrong.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;36144340]well I'm sorry your anecdotal evidence means that everyone's an idiot for not liking an interface that is unintuitive for KB+mouse users[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to go rambo in this thread, but while he made a postulate, you just postulated that it's unintuitive for desktop use. That's again opinion, and while this thread is very much uniform, it's still something you're imposing on others.
And it seems like people are think they're removing the start menu and the functionality that comes with it - this is [I]not[/I] true. It's different in design, but whether you like it or not, the functionality is [I]exactly[/I] the same. It acts the way the old one does - start typing something, it'll come up. The "only" (like it's a small thing) thing that's different, is that it's full screen, and has got some new, and actually useful, managing options. I can understand why people don't like it, but please don't judge it only on the looks (I'm aware of that a good bunch of you aren't).
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kazumi;36143423]I like my desktop clean so I've hidden all the icons. For years I've been running pretty much everything through the start button.
Speaking of which. The prophecy is coming full circle.
[t]http://anongallery.org/img/4/2/windows-8.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
While I can understand that people don't like the start menu, I can't even begin to fathom why people would agree with this. Whether you like any of the OSs, it doesn't show every version on this chart, and a lot of the hate on Vista is a bandwagon. This is a forum devoted to a computer game (orginally), don't you people know about Windows 2000? All the NT versions? Windows 98 SE? This is incredibly dumb.
[QUOTE=Takkuull;36145208][img]http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/085/Kornheiser_Why.JPG[/img]
This is [B]STUPID.[/B][/QUOTE]
They're making Windows more focused on mobile capabilities since that is the direction the market is heading in. Also by pushing Metro onto the PC market, they will be creating a market of metro apps they are planning to [url="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/16/microsoft_to_take_30_cut_of_metro_apps_under_windows_8.html"]capitalize on[/url] (you can bet this is the main reason why VS express will only be able to create metro apps). Tablets and smartphones are inevitably [url="http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykosner/2012/03/04/tablets-will-take-over-sooner-than-you-think-five-telling-trends/"]going to take over the PC market[/url], and Microsoft is simply adapting to this. It's a smart business move for them to stay relevant in the business, even though the transition is not going to be very popular with the old-schoolers.
Wait... wasn't 98 really unstable?
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
Mind, I have 98se installed on my duron which has been perfect.
Why I don't like metro:
It's fucking intrusive. Start menu was this small window that opened on the side. Metro on the other hand stomps on anything I was doing and screams "look at me".
It's horizontal scrolling. Fucking why? I understand you can flick on a tablet, but on a pc it feels much more intuitive to scroll DOWN.
The stuff is all over the place. In normal start menu you have your recent/favorited items and on the right easy access to documents, my compuer... In metro it just looks crap. I don't want a grid menu that goes horizontally.
But my main concern is it going fullscreen, that just kills the flow of what you're doing.
I can see how these points wouldn't matter to most, but as a developer I have to bend my workflow around the OS. I hope there will be enough modding to bend the OS instead.
Also for anyone who likes to quickly open programs, look up Launchy. It's great. Like windows start menu but imo faster and more sleek.
[QUOTE=inconspicious;36145437]Wait... wasn't 98 really unstable?
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
Mind, I have 98se installed on my duron which has been perfect.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why'd you even argue about the qualities of the OSs, the image is obviously bullshit.
[QUOTE=Instant Mix;36143019]Just.. Why? Seriously. Are they seriously that idiotic that they fail to understand that we [B] DON'T [/B] want the start button removed?[/QUOTE]
I haven't tried Windows 8, and I'm probably going to look at videos after I post this but, aren't they designing it in such a way that it doesn't need a start button? I'm thinking of it as a facebook update. how they change everything around and how 10% of people accept the changes right away while everyone else acts like their rattle was taken away from them until they get used to their newer shinier rattle.
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
Just looked at a preview. What the fuck microsoft. My computer is not a fucking touch screen ipad. :/
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;36145512]Why I don't like metro:
It's fucking intrusive. Start menu was this small window that opened on the side. Metro on the other hand stomps on anything I was doing and screams "look at me".
It's horizontal scrolling. Fucking why? I understand you can flick on a tablet, but on a pc it feels much more intuitive to scroll DOWN.
The stuff is all over the place. In normal start menu you have your recent/favorited items and on the right easy access to documents, my compuer... In metro it just looks crap. I don't want a grid menu that goes horizontally.
But my main concern is it going fullscreen, that just kills the flow of what you're doing.
I can see how these points wouldn't matter to most, but as a developer I have to bend my workflow around the OS. I hope there will be enough modding to bend the OS instead.
Also for anyone who likes to quickly open programs, look up Launchy. It's great. Like windows start menu but imo faster and more sleek.[/QUOTE]
How does it kill your workflow? You can fit more programs onto it, and, this is a well-kept secret, if you click anywhere else than on the start menu in 7 [I]it closes.[/I] Horizontal scrolling makes sense, as you'll probably be using a 16:9 monitor. If it was vertical, you'd have to move the mouse itself around a lot more, killing workflow. "The stuff is all over the place" I don't know... organize it? Microsoft introduced a little thing called groups, so you can group your programs together. That way they aren't a complete mess. And if you want access to your documents from the start menu, place a shortcut to the folder - or make a whole group called "documents" or whatever, having shortcuts to maybe every subject you have in school. Incredibly useful, and one of the things I very much prefer to Windows 7.
[QUOTE=Within;36143631]The start menu is [B]GREAT[/B] for shortcuts. I just type 'calc', 'notepad', 'cmd', 'msconfig', etc., just like I would in the Run dialog. There's [U]NO[/U] justification for removing the start menu when it's such a useful thing.[/QUOTE]
guess what? You can do the same in Windows 8. Start typing and you get search results.
[QUOTE=Jurikuer;36145550][b]I haven't tried Windows 8[/b], and I'm probably going to look at videos after I post this but, aren't they designing it in such a way that it doesn't need a start button? I'm thinking of it as a facebook update. how they change everything around and how 10% of people accept the changes right away while everyone else acts like their rattle was taken away from them until they get used to their newer shinier rattle.
[editline]31st May 2012[/editline]
Just looked at a preview. What the fuck microsoft. My computer is not a fucking touch screen ipad. :/[/QUOTE]
..then cut the last line. I don't know about you, but generally I'd try out things before complaining about them. I'm not saying you're stupid, but I think this is the way a lot of people think, and it's not really the way to adapt to new things. Try it out before judging. And don't do it in virtual box. And don't just uninstall the same day, it takes some time.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36145367]I'm not going to go rambo in this thread, but while he made a postulate, you just postulated that it's unintuitive for desktop use. [B]That's again opinion [/B][/QUOTE]
Yeah, no, that's entirely false. It's fullscreen and horizontally navigated, while the original one is only a small window and entirely vertically navigated. One's entirely designed around keyboard and mouse, the other is not. How much someone [I]enjoys[/I] the menu is opinion, but the simple fact is that one menu is designed for people who use a keyboard and mouse, and the other is for mobile touchscreen platforms. It's not postulation at all, and the fact that it's completely mandatory is even worse.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36145367]And it seems like people are think they're removing the start menu and the functionality that comes with it - this is [I]not[/I] true. It's different in design, but whether you like it or not, the functionality is [I]exactly[/I] the same. It acts the way the old one does - start typing something, it'll come up. The "only" (like it's a small thing) thing that's different, is that it's full screen, and has got some new, and actually useful, managing options. I can understand why people don't like it, but please don't judge it only on the looks (I'm aware of that a good bunch of you aren't).[/quote]
Nobody is saying it's less functional. All the core is still there, it's just harder to use and a gigantic switch from the (now classic) old menu.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36145606]How does it kill your workflow? You can fit more programs onto it, and, this is a well-kept secret, if you click anywhere else than on the start menu in 7 [I]it closes.[/I] Horizontal scrolling makes sense, as you'll probably be using a 16:9 monitor. If it was vertical, you'd have to move the mouse itself around a lot more, killing workflow. "The stuff is all over the place" I don't know... organize it? Microsoft introduced a little thing called groups, so you can group your programs together. That way they aren't a complete mess. And if you want access to your documents from the start menu, place a shortcut to the folder - or make a whole group called "documents" or whatever, having shortcuts to maybe every subject you have in school. Incredibly useful, and one of the things I very much prefer to Windows 7.[/QUOTE]
It kills your workflow because it is full screen.
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