• Bethesda Knew PS3 Skyrim Had Memory Issues, Shipped Anyway
    113 replies, posted
I bought a console once, then I noticed PC gaming was godlike, never used it again.
ok so guys guys GUYS We're going to take a 3.2GHz PPC processor with 6 SPEs. GUYS and we're going to use 256mb of RAM Who the fuck thought the PS3 was a good idea when they were designing it?
[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;34753219]Makes you wonder what kind of people work at Betheshda. From what I've seen they have: Mediocre graphics for current AAA titles (just a very minor quirk). Beyond terrible animations (in every damn game). Clunky and unpleasant combat in every game. And rather shitty programming.[/QUOTE] The graphics are good. Keep in mind these are open world games, you can't afford to put the same graphics as BF3 on a game that features an entire country. Do you know what would happen if Skyrim had graphics as good as BF3 ? In order to run anywhere near playable the game would have to load cells at the very last moment and very shitty LOD textures even on high settings, which would be hidden with massive distance fog or blur. This, and the skybox would more or less be removed and replaced with a plain blue sky that you can't see because of massive bloom all over it. The AA would probably go down the shitter as well. So, yeah, "better" graphics for a game that big is just unreasonable. The animations are starting to be much better. The ones in Skyrim are much above average and much better than the other games. The combat is good for a RPG. It's not very demanding and rather simple but if you don't set your standards on a bitch level (aka expecting dark messiah combat on every game), they are fine. The programming is far from shitty. It could be better for sure, but it's not shitty programming, or else nothing would work - and practically the entire game works correctly. I've been accumulating 126 hours on Skyrim and not once have I stumbled upon a game breaking glitch, not even a really noticeable one. Once again, keep in mind that the scale of the game is enormous, it covers an entire country and has a buttload of content, don't expect everything to be as smooth and perfect as for a script-driven linear experience that will never change and only lasts 6 hours max. Every one of your complaints are irrelevant to this genre anyway. Don't expect superb graphics, ultra-smooth animations, very immersing combat and perfect programming in a game that doesn't require or can't possibly have any of those. Set your standards accordingly to what you're playing and be reasonable.
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;34747430']I can name a game buggier than this GTA4 And it struggles to run on my q6600 and 4GB RAM[/QUOTE] GTA4 might be poorly optimized but as for actual bugs there don't seem to be any(game breaking ones). The nonbreaking ones are hilarious and do nothing bad to gameplay. [editline]18th February 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;34757998]The graphics are good. Keep in mind these are open world games, you can't afford to put the same graphics as BF3 on a game that features an entire country. Do you know what would happen if Skyrim had graphics as good as BF3 ? In order to run anywhere near playable the game would have to load cells at the very last moment and very shitty LOD textures even on high settings, which would be hidden with massive distance fog or blur. This, and the skybox would more or less be removed and replaced with a plain blue sky that you can't see because of massive bloom all over it. The AA would probably go down the shitter as well. So, yeah, "better" graphics for a game that big is just unreasonable. [/QUOTE]Not true. I don't see why skyrim couldn't have some better quality character models, though they're still a huge step up from oblivion. Other than that it doesn't look bad though. If you think default one looks bad, there's thousands of graphics mods. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;34757998] The combat is good for a RPG. It's not very demanding and rather simple but if you don't set your standards on a bitch level (aka expecting dark messiah combat on every game), they are fine. [/QUOTE] They're awfully boring. Especially when they broken bow combat and made it console friendly. The combat isn't bad, it's just boring. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;34757998] The programming is far from shitty. It could be better for sure, but it's not shitty programming, or else nothing would work - and practically the entire game works correctly. I've been accumulating 126 hours on Skyrim and not once have I stumbled upon a game breaking glitch, not even a really noticeable one. Once again, keep in mind that the scale of the game is enormous, it covers an entire country and has a buttload of content, don't expect everything to be as smooth and perfect as for a script-driven linear experience that will never change and only lasts 6 hours max. [/QUOTE] Programmers might be ok but why won't they fix age old bugs that are there even since fallout 3 times.
[QUOTE=nikomo;34757949]ok so guys guys GUYS We're going to take a 3.2GHz PPC processor with 6 SPEs. GUYS and we're going to use 256mb of RAM Who the fuck thought the PS3 was a good idea when they were designing it?[/QUOTE] 256mb system and 256mb video. I believe the 360 has 512mb shared, so they're about the same.
I think it's ironic that the console gamers are struggling from a port issue for once.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;34757998]The graphics are good. Keep in mind these are open world games, you can't afford to put the same graphics as BF3 on a game that features an entire country. Do you know what would happen if Skyrim had graphics as good as BF3 ? In order to run anywhere near playable the game would have to load cells at the very last moment and very shitty LOD textures even on high settings, which would be hidden with massive distance fog or blur. This, and the skybox would more or less be removed and replaced with a plain blue sky that you can't see because of massive bloom all over it. The AA would probably go down the shitter as well. So, yeah, "better" graphics for a game that big is just unreasonable.[/QUOTE] Being an open world game is no excuse for bad graphics. Cryengine 3 achieves much better shading and lighting without any baked lighting etc at much higher geometry and texture density at the same level of performance. Robust, fast streaming systems exist that can produce consistent geometric detail at next to no performance hit. Meanwhile Bethesda has the worst CSM implementation I've ever seen, not even any attempt at indirect lighting, awful assets many of which have no LOD models whatsoever, and a streaming system that can't maintain anything close to uniform detail. [editline]18th February 2012[/editline] Funny that the absolute worst case for skyrim is in cities, where the open world argument doesn't even exist.
[QUOTE=nikomo;34757949]ok so guys guys GUYS We're going to take a 3.2GHz PPC processor with 6 SPEs. GUYS and we're going to use 256mb of RAM Who the fuck thought the PS3 was a good idea when they were designing it?[/QUOTE] It was Sony's idea to go with RAMBUS. You know how much their memory costs?
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;34758136]256mb system and 256mb video. I believe the 360 has 512mb shared, so they're about the same.[/QUOTE] Many devs have stated that's hard to program for because of that, so it's really not the same.
[QUOTE=install gentoo;34759464]Being an open world game is no excuse for bad graphics. Cryengine 3 achieves much better shading and lighting without any baked lighting etc at much higher geometry and texture density at the same level of performance. Robust, fast streaming systems exist that can produce consistent geometric detail at next to no performance hit. Meanwhile Bethesda has the worst CSM implementation I've ever seen, not even any attempt at indirect lighting, awful assets many of which have no LOD models whatsoever, and a streaming system that can't maintain anything close to uniform detail. [editline]18th February 2012[/editline] Funny that the absolute worst case for skyrim is in cities, where the open world argument doesn't even exist.[/QUOTE] Because Cryengine 3 was totally used for open worlds, right And I never had a single problem with cities, runs smoothly and without any problem. Plus, the way Skyrim's made (and generally bethesda games) cells all communicate with each other in a way or another so loading times are short and efficient, which implies that even in cities the outside world is still loaded.
And I was rated 50 dumbs in an old skyrim news thread for saying the "after sales updates ability" for modern games makes programmers a little lazy V:v:V
[QUOTE=The Baconator;34746200]There's literally no point to the PS3. It's the most abnormal to program on, and Epic hired an entire team just for PS3 ports. In addition, developing for 360 is allot like developing for a Windows PC, so much that many 360 games get PC ports (like Mass Effect or Alan Wake). Also, Blu-Ray, which did nothing for gaming but made the PS3 more expensive (and disc reads [B]far[/B] slower than DVD, thus longer load times on PS3 and some games even require mandatory installs). There's literally no incentive to "unleash the true power of the PS3 :downs:" since you can spend that money on making a PC or Wii or smartphone version instead, and just release a shitty PS3 port (like what most devs do unless Sony pays them).[/QUOTE] You sound like an XBox fanboy. We frown on your kind here...
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;34760521]Because Cryengine 3 was totally used for open worlds, right And I never had a single problem with cities, runs smoothly and without any problem. Plus, the way Skyrim's made (and generally bethesda games) cells all communicate with each other in a way or another so loading times are short and efficient, which implies that even in cities the outside world is still loaded.[/QUOTE] Open worlds make zero difference with a real streaming system, that was my point. In cities I get decent performance but it's abysmal for how bad the game looks. I'm fine with keeping the outside cells in memory for better load times if it's a real benefit while inside a city but there's no good reason to render them rather than just a skybox. The game has no real reason to look as bad as it does, and the only reason it isn't blasted for awful visuals is that the environment art is [I]really[/I] good.
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;34760845]You sound like an XBox fanboy. We frown on your kind here...[/QUOTE] Oh look a PS3 fanboy. Nobody gives a shit about you stupid multimedia device.
I was so close to buying skyrim for ps3 but opted to buy it on steam because it was easier/quicker. Glad I did. [editline]18th February 2012[/editline] also pc master race fuckl your consoles lol!
Further evidence that the PS3 is hopelessly outdated. Also, it's amusing to see PS3 gamers get treated like PC gamers for once. "Bugs? Fuck em, ship anyway. They're PC gamers, they'll figure out how to fix it."
I had no idea this issue existed, the only criticism of the PS3 as its base levels is that it's awkward to port games to, and that it uses half of its RAM to run the Playstation itself, the other half to run the game. Didn't realise it could get that bad.
[QUOTE='[EG] Pepper;34747430']I can name a game buggier than this GTA4 And it struggles to run on my q6600 and 4GB RAM[/QUOTE] Poorly optimized does not equal buggy.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/iCFg6.png[/t] [t]http://i.imgur.com/659Bh.png[/t] This thread works real well on my phone
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;34760845]You sound like an XBox fanboy. We frown on your kind here...[/QUOTE] I only PC game
It's about time they drop loading cells. Open cities, open houses, open everything please. They should hire some programmers who know shit about proper streaming.
[QUOTE=The golden;34765103]I'm not going to lie, the cell-based system that TES games use really breaks the immersion.[/QUOTE] At least it's not Morrowind where you would get slapped by 20 load screens if you used a jump spell to get across the land.
Imagine programming this with a punch card computer. The horror.
Consoles are all but dead at this point, The games look like shit and have errors everywhere. PC is the way to go
How would people have felt if they delayed the PS3 release? I'm sure some people would be patient, but there would probably be a lot more bitching to them about the delay. I wonder when in the development phase they realized that ps3 users would have this problem.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;34762316]I only PC game[/QUOTE] Then what the fuck is your XBL doing there?
[QUOTE=proch;34768164]Then what the fuck is your XBL doing there?[/QUOTE] the xbox is just a portable PC with gamepads [img]http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/Bill%20Gates%20grin.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;34761091]entropia universe is an open world mmo on cryengine 2, and it runs like butter[/QUOTE] This is what comes out when I google entropia universe : [img]http://img.jeuxvideo.fr/00555972-photo-entropia-universe.jpg[/img]
Prioritizing fixes in the game industry is a hard task. On a game of that scale, keeping everything in line and meeting deadlines means they most likely couldn't delay the release. That would only piss people off more than the memory issue. Yes its a major bug and needs(needed) to be fixed, but the game is huge. There are millions of moving parts churning away all simultaneously and the fact that it works as well as it does (most of you sunk a lot of time into that game, regardless of bugs, judging by the responses) should be applauded. As for the people knocking their programmers, just be quiet. The game was rather smooth running in most cases(backwards dragons withstand, i thought it was funny). The mindset of OH MY GOD THERE ARE BUGS IN A GAME I WANT MY MONEY BACK AND EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE GAME ARE SHIT is just depressing.
[QUOTE=Lonkost;34768390]Prioritizing fixes in the game industry is a hard task. On a game of that scale, keeping everything in line and meeting deadlines means they most likely couldn't delay the release. That would only piss people off more than the memory issue. Yes its a major bug and needs(needed) to be fixed, but the game is huge. There are millions of moving parts churning away all simultaneously and the fact that it works as well as it does (most of you sunk a lot of time into that game, regardless of bugs, judging by the responses) should be applauded. As for the people knocking their programmers, just be quiet. The game was rather smooth running in most cases(backwards dragons withstand, i thought it was funny). The mindset of OH MY GOD THERE ARE BUGS IN A GAME I WANT MY MONEY BACK AND EVERYONE INVOLVED IN THE GAME ARE SHIT is just depressing.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between a game being delayed for minor and rare issues and a game being delayed for major and every-single-person-experiences-them issues.
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