• [BBC] Zoe Quinn talks about Gamergate. "Big Firms Must Condemn Gamergate"
    266 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366731]Can we acknowledge that video game consumer practices are fucked up but hey sexism is also endemic in the industry?[/QUOTE] The sentiment as I gather it is that the basic idea behind TvW is great, but the videos themselves are poorly researched at best and outright misleading at worst. No one should be discriminated against based on their gender or race or any other accident of birth, and everyone should be given an equal chance to do what they want. I don't think there's a sexist majority in the gaming community. There are sexists and racists, but they're a tiny minority within a much larger inclusive whole. Didn't Riot release some statistics about the player base for LoL a while back? Something about how the lions share of shit flinging is done by 5% of the player base, or some other equally small fraction? That's how I see things like harassment and sexism in the gaming community.
[QUOTE=The mouse;46366739]Do you know anyone who seriously believes that more Women in the industry is a bad thing because I can safely say that I have never seen anyone who does think that. Nor do I know why someone would be against such a thing or even why Gender is important anyway.[/QUOTE] There was a huge fucking backlash when she first started the kickstarter, including a flash game where you could beat her up. I know there's this goofy history of celebrity beatup flash games but think about what you're doing next time. Sexist action would be the problem, not so much sexist words. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46366769] I don't think there's a sexist majority in the gaming community. There are sexists and racists, but they're a tiny minority within a much larger inclusive whole. Didn't Riot release some statistics about the player base for LoL a while back? Something about how the lions share of shit flinging is done by 5% of the player base, or some other equally small fraction? That's how I see things like harassment and sexism in the gaming community.[/QUOTE] The statistics lately show that women are just about edging dudes out as a majority. But games being made now haven't really shifted to reflect that.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366786]There was a huge fucking backlash when she first started the kickstarter, including a flash game where you could beat her up. I know there's this goofy history of celebrity beatup flash games but think about what you're doing next time.[/QUOTE] Anonymous hating dweebs who get a kick from power-tripping on others. At least they don't hold position of authority or influence like the public hating dweebs this controversy is about. Seriously, find any even small-name dev who says "women are really awful and have no place in games, not even playing them". [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] Also those statistics include mobile casual games, tbh there is a lot to argue whether or not those should be counted. Statistics that discount them still show males in a majority. Even then it's up to the devs, not the gamers. If no game in existence is good enough for what you want, make your own.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;46366796]Anonymous hating dweebs who get a kick from power-tripping on others. At least they don't hold position of authority or influence like the public hating dweebs this controversy is about. Seriously, find any even small-name dev who says "women are really awful and have no place in games, not even playing them".[/QUOTE] are these the same anonymous that support the fine young capitalists? I can never tell. and again, it's not really about explicit sexism to me, rather it's implicit. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=G-Strogg;46366796]If no game in existence is good enough for what you want, make your own.[/QUOTE] Gone Home is pretty good
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366786] The statistics lately show that women are just about edging dudes out as a majority. But games being made now haven't really shifted to reflect that.[/QUOTE] no there are games that are being made for women, and they tend to be mobile/facebook apps because that's what they are playing. the gaming market that is buying the big AAA titles and playing a lot of games is predominately male.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366813]are these the same anonymous that support the fine young capitalists? I can never tell. and again, it's not really about explicit sexism to me, rather it's implicit. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] Gone Home is pretty good[/QUOTE] Ok so play Gone Home or games similar to it.
[QUOTE=stealth_camo;46366817]no there are games that are being made for women, and they tend to be mobile/facebook apps because that's what they are playing. the gaming market that is buying the big AAA titles and playing a lot of games is predominately male.[/QUOTE] Well that's a problem isn't it
Also you do fucking realise you can be nice and anonymous as well as evil and anonymous? You're just coming off as a troll now tbh.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;46366820]Ok so play Gone Home or games similar to it.[/QUOTE] No I like to talk and argue with people on facepunch too.
[QUOTE=Ta16;46365376]I hate this kind of stuff. I work a somewhat high stress job... I've been shot at, I've shot at people, I've watched people die right in front of me (It was an industrial accident), I come home and I just want to sit down and enjoy playing games, the only medium where people of all walks of life come together and enjoy playing together regardless of ideological or physical attributes. My whole fucking job is politics, the last thing I want is to come home and enjoy a good game with people. Yet, the ONE thing I can unwind with is tossed into bullshit politics by an attention whore who only masquerades as someone who is fighting for women rights. For the love of god people, we just got done with the whole 'Games Cause gun Violence' shit, keep this shit away![/QUOTE] is it alright if I ask what it is that you do for a living? all I can think of is mercenary
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366822]Well that's a problem isn't it[/QUOTE] how is that a problem? the genders are different the different genders are allowed to like different things you know
Is this the FP equivalent of when people on twitter go "fart fart"? I guess there's no point in trying to have a conversation with you.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366786]There was a huge fucking backlash when she first started the kickstarter, including a flash game where you could beat her up. I know there's this goofy history of celebrity beatup flash games but think about what you're doing next time. Sexist action would be the problem, not so much sexist words. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] The statistics lately show that women are just about edging dudes out as a majority. But games being made now haven't really shifted to reflect that.[/QUOTE] What kind of shift do you expect to see, and who from?
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;46366824]Also you do fucking realise you can be nice and anonymous as well as evil and anonymous? You're just coming off as a troll now tbh.[/QUOTE] I really don't mean too. I just think 4chan is fucking idiotic.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366822]Well that's a problem isn't it[/QUOTE] is it a problem that more women play phone games than men?
[QUOTE=3noneTwo;46365694]There's a big difference between a single person addressing a group of people by being invited by a large network to talk about the group and their personal experience with them, and a group of people addressing a single person by sending hundreds of messages ranging [I]wildly[/I] in tone, from "Nobody cares about you, you will be forgotten," to insults about her appearance and private personal affairs, to threats of stalking, violence, and rape/death threats directed at her friends, her family, and herself. People [I]want[/I] to talk about ethics, just as much as they [I]want[/I] to talk about harassment. But as it stands, "GamerGate" has already been defined in the mainstream as a confused movement mired by a disproportionate amount of violent threats by a small but [I]poisonous and unshakable[/I] core. GamerGate supporters won't be able to have the conversation they want to have, as long as they associate with a name that is tainted beyond repair. Why is the name so important to keep?[/QUOTE]The journalists already smeared "gamergate." Pray, tell us what they'll do if we create a new name?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46366840]What kind of shift do you expect to see, and who from?[/QUOTE] it would be nice to see a change from the big companies like Ubisoft or rockstar. You know, game studios that have massive launches and have millions and millions in sales.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366856]it would be nice to see a change from the big companies like Ubisoft or rockstar. You know, game studios that have massive launches and have millions and millions in sales.[/QUOTE] what do you want them to change
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46366858]what do you want them to change[/QUOTE] Not to be misogynistic, have a female charater as the lead?
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366856]it would be nice to see a change from the big companies like Ubisoft or rockstar. You know, game studios that have massive launches and have millions and millions in sales.[/QUOTE] they are making games for their demographic economically speaking aiming for different people now would be a terrible decision on their behalf. why make a game that your main buyers are not interested in and the new market you're aiming for might not even buy?
Like shit let's have the next GTA have a female lead that is basically kima griggs. that would make me a happy camper. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=stealth_camo;46366873]they are making games for their demographic economically speaking aiming for different people now would be a terrible decision on their behalf. why make a game that your main buyers are not interested in and the new market you're aiming for might not even buy?[/QUOTE] If there are all these totally not sexist video gamers there shouldn't be a problem changing up the formula. or are you saying capitalism favors a white patriarchal hegemony and we should stage a communist revolution that's deep brah
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366862]Not to be misogynistic, have a female charater as the lead?[/QUOTE] What do you mean when you say "not to be misogynistic"? I have a hard time recalling any game that was actually misogynistic. If by misygonistic you mean, "there are not as many women in gaming as I would like" then you have misunderstood what that word means. And yes, it would be nice if we had more diverse leads but in the end it's up to the game developers to decide who they want as a protagonist. If they want a white, straight, male as a protagonist, that is their right. Don't go and demand quotas and shit for how many stronk female leads have to be in a publishers yearly lineup, because that won't give you any interesting and well written characters, hell it will do the opposite since it's hard carring for something you are forced to do.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366862]Not to be misogynistic, have a female charater as the lead?[/QUOTE] 'not being misogynistic' is kind of a vague goal I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for more female protagonists. I don't think it's a sign of sexism that guys make power trip games about being an action dude, though. It just so happens that power trip action dude games sell really well because lots of guys fantasize about being a super powerful action dude. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambeth;46366881]Like shit let's have the next GTA have a female lead that is basically kima griggs. that would make me a happy camper. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] If there are all these totally not sexist video gamers there shouldn't be a problem changing up the formula. or are you saying capitalism favors a white patriarchal hegemony and we should stage a communist revolution that's deep brah[/QUOTE] a certain genre of content appealing to a certain demographic doesn't make it a "hegemony" nobody is being oppressed when someone plays God of War, the same way that no one is being oppressed when some guy watches Indiana Jones or Die Hard.
[QUOTE=Muggi;46366903]What do you mean when you say "not to be misogynistic"? I have a hard time recalling any game that was actually misogynistic. If by misygonistic you mean, "there are not as many women in gaming as I would like" then you have misunderstood what that word means. And yes, it would be nice if we had more diverse leads but in the end it's up to the game developers to decide who they want as a protagonist. If they want a white, straight, male as a protagonist, that is their right. Don't go and demand quotas and shit for how many stronk female leads have to be in a publishers yearly lineup, because that won't give you any interesting and well written characters, hell it will do the opposite since it's hard carring for something you are forced to do.[/QUOTE] GTA V was pretty bad as I recall. Red Dead Redemption too. I'm not talking about quotas but see all these beefy white guy protagonists can be boring. And it's not really up to the developer, it's up to the publisher and apparently the invisible hand of the free market.
The notion of "burly white male lead" has been way more prelavent the past 6 years than it was before that in gaming. Female leads and in general well-versed games were extremely common. I think the new trend is because of the more mainstream games like call of duty. [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambeth;46366931][B]GTA V was pretty bad as I recall. Red Dead Redemption too.[/B] I'm not talking about quotas but see all these beefy white guy protagonists can be boring. And it's not really up to the developer, it's up to the publisher and apparently the invisible hand of the free market.[/QUOTE] Come on man, don't hold out on us. Share some nice examples of what they did that was misogynistic.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46366905] a certain genre of content appealing to a certain demographic doesn't make it a "hegemony" nobody is being oppressed when someone plays God of War, the same way that no one is being oppressed when some guy watches Indiana Jones or Die Hard.[/QUOTE] I'm talking larger brah. Sexism is also a problem in movies/tv/life/history/art [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;46366905]'not being misogynistic' is kind of a vague goal I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for more female protagonists. I don't think it's a sign of sexism that guys make power trip games about being an action dude, though. It just so happens that power trip action dude games sell really well because lots of guys fantasize about being a super powerful action dude.[/QUOTE] See that's another problem, too many dudes are obsessed with power.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366931]GTA V was pretty bad as I recall. Red Dead Redemption too. I'm not talking about quotas but see all these beefy white guy protagonists can be boring. And it's not really up to the developer, it's up to the publisher and apparently the invisible hand of the free market.[/QUOTE] in my experience the character's content is more important than their skin, and john marston was a pretty good character, as I recall i mean if you didn't think they were good characters I don't think changing their gender would help [editline]30th October 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambeth;46366945]I'm talking larger brah. Sexism is also a problem in movies/tv/life/history/art See that's another problem, too many dudes are obsessed with power.[/QUOTE] I don't really see what's wrong with escapist fantasies, pretty much everyone has them
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46366931]GTA V was pretty bad as I recall. Red Dead Redemption too. I'm not talking about quotas but see all these beefy white guy protagonists can be boring. And it's not really up to the developer, it's up to the publisher and apparently the invisible hand of the free market.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it is the market that decides most of that shit, because they put a fuckload of money into it and are going to take the safest most market-research approved path possible. Everyone except them knows how shit it usually turns out, but they think it's safe. So how exactly is them taking the safe route misogyny? They didn't pick it, that's just the audience who buys their games and there's no intention or even room for prejudice in that kind of sterile market analysis. Is it misogynistic simply because it doesn't have tokenism?
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;46366938] Come on man, don't hold out on us. Share some nice examples of what they did that was misogynistic.[/QUOTE] Both GTA V and RDR have ambient rape scenes that just sort of happen in the open world. GTA V female characters all seem to slot in to convenient awful gender roles. Let me be upfront and say I haven't played either. But I'm gonna get GTA V when it comes out on steam.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;46365758]Same reason why feminism has the same name even though people post crazy shit on twitter. If you really think Gamergate is about misogyny then you've been baited by the whole smear campaign. Why would any opposing party describe their enemies stance in a positive view? You don't ask a democrat the end goals of the republican party, or ask a chauvinist what is feminism. You don't take to heart what anti-gamergate people say about gamergate. Unless of course they provide counter-arguments or evidence.[/QUOTE] The issue is because of minorities of cunts ruining it for the rest of us they can provide evidence in the form of death threats and that shootout threat to Sarkessian.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.