[BBC] Zoe Quinn talks about Gamergate. "Big Firms Must Condemn Gamergate"
266 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]The movement blew its shot because of bigoted idiots like myself who won't stop bitching about the bad actions of a small portion of people and using them to generalise everybody behind it as gutter scum [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]I'm one of those people who [I]know[/I] you're on the wrong side of history.
The idea that Gamergate is about journalism and ethics is totally laughable. And it's too bad, because gaming journalism totally is a swamp of corruption. The movement blew it's shot at actually changing anything by spending all their time spamming threats and sexist garbage.[/QUOTE]
Like I've pointed out in other threads.
Do you like, use hyperbole and grandiose claims without actually backing them up as like a fuel source to keep your ability to shitpost going?
When in doubt, use hyperbole
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]I'm one of those people who [I]know[/I] you're on the wrong side of history.
The idea that Gamergate is about journalism and ethics is totally laughable. And it's too bad, because gaming journalism totally is a swamp of corruption. The movement blew it's shot at actually changing anything by spending all their time spamming threats and sexist garbage.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they totally wasted the efforts by actually helping women's rights with extra fundings
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]I'm one of those people who [I]know[/I] you're on the wrong side of history.[/QUOTE]
How can you even breathe under all those fedoras?
Gamergate resulted in changes in disclosure on multiple websites such as the Escapist, exposed hard evidence of long-rumored industry collusion, donated tens of thousands of dollars to charities which promote female-lead game development, has lead some of the worst sites' largest ad partners to back out, and has overall made ethics in gaming journalism a serious debate in the media's eyes.
Meanwhile you're just sitting there, acknowledging the corruption in games journalism, but you're too busy white knighting to acknowledge what these people have accomplished. And I say people, not "pissy teenagers and manchildren" because there's a whole fucking lot of intelligent women in on this movement who you just wrote off a few posts back, who are tired of being continuously painted as the eternal victims of the patriarchy. [I]Don't worry Used Car Salesman, they're safe under your protection.[/I]
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373013]Nope, no misogyny to see here at all!
Basically everything I see about Gamergate on Facepunch confirms what [I]the rest of the world[/I] says about Gamergate: It's a "movement" of pissy teenagers and manchildren that are mad about women trying to change gaming's status as an immature little boy's club.[/QUOTE]
nice job blanket statementing me and the other minorities and women who want a more ethical and respectful games media instead of the pompous prissy white pricks who try and tell us how we should think and that they know what's best for us.
ffs every time one of you fucktards make a post like this I have to make the same exact reply. Shit never changes. You could've made a simple search on twitter, or hell even fucking youtube, and see the kind of people that use the gg tag. After all, that's all gamergate is. A word, a hashtag, but its use has helped bring people together to do some decent stuff. Money was raised for some charities, one of Anita's harassers was identified ( [url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1PvENIIYAApNE3.png:large] of course not that the anti side will care[/url] ), and [url=https://twitter.com/redlianak/status/527883557361188864]even some formerly anti-gg leaning personalities are starting to note the positivity on the gg side[/url] and the gross negativity and harassment coming from the opposing.
but don't take my word for it, take a look at all the dumbs you'll receive for being an absolute fucking moron.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373013]Nope, no misogyny to see here at all!
Basically everything I see about Gamergate on Facepunch confirms what [I]the rest of the world[/I] says about Gamergate: It's a "movement" of pissy teenagers and manchildren that are mad about women trying to change gaming's status as an immature little boy's club.[/QUOTE]
hi there. i'm a feminist. and you're choosing to speak for me, above me, and over me. You're choosing to ignore things I say, and those of similar opinions to me say, as "immature little boys club", but I have no intention of ever making it or leaving it as a boys club yet I support the idea of GG and it's desire for ethics reform.
I disagree with generalizations like this as they are inevitably ignorant and pathetic.
You know I don't often post anymore, but I do still often read Facepunch for that more Close Community Feeling(tm), and its pretty disappointing to see the people who are usually make pretty good posts like Zeke and Used Car Salesman go down this path blindly. Like I totally understand that it is really difficult to overcome the very human bias of not wanting to be wrong and therefore entrenching one's beliefs even deeper through argument. Those are the memory brain pathways get used more and more simply from defending your points and you end up convincing yourself more and more that you're correct, until saying something like:
[quote]I'm one of those people who know you're on the wrong side of history. [/quote]
Feels right, because you're so certain that you'll be proven right in the end and it will feel so good. I think it's obvious what my position is on this whole debacle but from my fairly limited following of this, it seems the GamerGate folks have a fairly clear agenda with some actual issues that need to be addressed, and a small troll problem that they even try to police internally, while the other side focuses only on the minority of trolls. Honestly its the same thing that happened to Occupy Wallstreet, and seems to be the downside of mass media. I can only imagine what the civil rights movement would have been if the 24 hours news network could constantly pick out tweets from ghetto and more militant black people and use them out of context to paint them as the majority. I bet it would have looked something like this.
Oh and the funniest part is how there are women on the #GG side who are completely ignored by the antiGG side.
Edit: Facepunch general opinion in SH & GD has almost always been a bit ahead of the curve of history from what I've seen the past 7~ years, and it seems this time will be no different.
Edit2: I think its pretty silly that there's even such a divide between the GGers and the antiGGers. You both ultimately want the same thing, more equality for both genders and a less corrupt journalism industry, so there's no reason the dialog between the two sides should be this heated. Both sides would benefit a lot more from figuring out what they have in common first and then working from there. This is like watching The Church of English split off from the Catholic Church.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]I'm one of those people who [I]know[/I] you're on the wrong side of history.
The idea that Gamergate is about journalism and ethics is totally laughable. And it's too bad, because gaming journalism totally is a swamp of corruption. The movement blew it's shot at actually changing anything by spending all their time spamming threats and sexist garbage.[/QUOTE]
And you decided to shitpost.
And that's why sections of this forum is turning into a GG-echochamber, not enough sane voices to argue with.
Also, cunt has nothing to do with misogyny, ta-ta. Rather it has to do with motherhood. Educate yourself.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373013]Nope, no misogyny to see here at all!
[B]Basically everything I see about Gamergate on Facepunch confirms what [I]the rest of the world[/I] says about Gamergate[/B]: It's a "movement" of pissy teenagers and manchildren that are mad about women trying to change gaming's status as an immature little boy's club.[/QUOTE]
[URL=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1421478]I don't think you looked at all.[/URL]
Nothing in that thread suggests 'pissy teenagers and manchildren', and if you read through it (And I mean [B]read[/B], as opposed to "skimmed through and decided I knew with 100% fact") you'd realize that the issues are real and the cause is legitimate.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]I'm one of those people who [I]know[/I] you're on the wrong side of history.
The idea that Gamergate is about journalism and ethics is totally laughable. And it's too bad, because gaming journalism totally is a swamp of corruption. The movement blew it's shot at actually changing anything by spending all their time spamming threats and sexist garbage.[/QUOTE]
If you know it, can you prove it with evidence that can be falsified?
Seriously, these shitposters are just terrible. Bring back thisispain to school you guys on how it's really done.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373013]Nope, no misogyny to see here at all!
Basically everything I see about Gamergate on Facepunch confirms what [I]the rest of the world[/I] says about Gamergate: It's a "movement" of pissy teenagers and manchildren that are mad about women trying to change gaming's status as an immature little boy's club.[/QUOTE]
This is the problem with arguing against a supposedly 'feminist' point of view, if they disagree with us they can just point at us and shout 'misogyny! misogyny!'
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373013]Nope, no misogyny to see here at all!
Basically everything I see about Gamergate on Facepunch confirms what [I]the rest of the world[/I] says about Gamergate: It's a "movement" of pissy teenagers and manchildren that are mad about women trying to change gaming's status as an immature little boy's club.[/QUOTE]
I'm not gonna get tied up in a Gamergate thread, but do you remember the "JUSTIN... CUNT!" thread here on Facepunch? Sure, cunt is a "gendered" insult, but it doesn't necessarily have to be - cunt is used all the time towards any person of any gender. Calling her a "slut" would be much worse.
Yeah her private life sure does justify all of those rape and death threats, right?
And that 'small portion of a larger group' bullshit is such a weak excuse. The amount of vitriol and shit posting on Twitter is overwhelming. I just don't understand how you still insist on being on board with GG - a cause that is so tarnished by symbolic violence. Whichever 'true' motivations you swear by is lost in the horrible noise of conspiratory manchildren.
TotalBiscuit did what he can in an attempt to break the GG supporter stereotype by publishing the interview with the Kotaku editor, but everyone here wants to continue to jump on Quinn instead. Because that's the easiest opinion to have on this forum right now.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;46373550]I'm one of those people who [I]know[/I] you're on the wrong side of history[/QUOTE]
I tried to find a reply that doesn't invoke Godwin's law, and I ain't found shit. You really do sound like a nazi.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;46367528]It's common for women to get kidnapped and then raped in the real world you know.[/QUOTE]
Your ability to ignore context is enviable. I too wish I could let my body and mind be overcome with pure ignorance.
For all it's worth almost all of my friends are British games journalists and I can attest to their lack of corruption entirely. I'm just really bemused when I hear people talking about corrupt games journalists; they're just people paid to write words about computer games. Frankly the whole thing has gotten extremely out of hand and I see gamergate's actual effect being the alienation of a huge number of hobbyist gamers (particularly women), even if that wasn't it's intention.
Gamer culture has became an extremely unpleasant thing as a direct consequence. It pains me to even consider how utterly deplorable the Zoe Quinn fiasco has been. A person's personal & professional life turned upside down just because of their romantic affiliations? Truly shameful. There was never any corruption there and it's deplorable that she's still a subject of hate.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;46375602]Yeah her private life sure does justify all of those rape and death threats, right?
And that 'small portion of a larger group' bullshit is such a weak excuse. The amount of vitriol and shit posting on Twitter is overwhelming. I just don't understand how you still insist on being on board with GG - a cause that is so tarnished by symbolic violence. Whichever 'true' motivations you swear by is lost in the horrible noise of conspiratory manchildren.
TotalBiscuit did what he can in an attempt to break the GG supporter stereotype by publishing the interview with the Kotaku editor, but everyone here wants to continue to jump on Quinn instead. Because that's the easiest opinion to have on this forum right now.[/QUOTE]
People genuinely do not give a flying fuck about your gender online. Your words do not have a penis or vagina. They don't have strong big muscles, and they don't wear make up. Words by women can hurt just as much as words by men. Yet somehow, there's the idea, the notion that saying bad things to women online is like walking up to a girl in real life and suckerpunching her in the face.
These Quinns of the internet take advantage of that by acting like total attentionwhoring twats online, who harass and instigate against anyone standing in their way of becoming E-Famous. Then, when people push back against that, they grasp their faces and fall to the floor, crocodile tears streaming down their cheeks, while crying about misogyny and violence against women.
And in today's political correct environment, it works. People are lining up to defend the Quinns of the internet, regardless of the shit they've pulled.
Women apparently are exempt from criticism. They may not be held accountable for their words and actions. They have online vagina privilege. White knights will come pouring out of the woodwork to defend their vulnerable princesses from the evil, online dragons and up-to-no-goods seeking to soil the pristine glory of the holy vulva.
The more you think about it, the more chauvinistic and anti-equality all this shit seems. How fucked up is your world when you perceive women to be so vulnerable that they need to be protected on the internet of all places.
[QUOTE=V12US;46375907]These Quinns of the internet take advantage of that by acting like total attentionwhoring twats online, who harass and instigate against anyone standing in their way of becoming E-Famous. Then, when people push back against that, they grasp their faces and fall to the floor, crocodile tears streaming down their cheeks, while crying about misogyny and violence against women.[/QUOTE]
Just to add to this, I'm amazed that people are coming to the defense of Zoe Quinn, who, if anyone has taken the time to read some of the chatlogs, should be quite obviously known as an abusive and manipulative personality. Under no circumstance is the harassment she has been receiving justified, but it's astonishing the people who are acting as though she is the paragon of social justice. This is removed from the situation regarding Gamergate, however, and I would suggest taking a look at Reimu's videos covering the matter for further information.
Literally never seen anyone say she's a "paragon of social justice". All I've seen is people defending the idea that someone shouldn't be subject to a torrent of abuse, literally ruining their lives, just because of things they do in their private life. It's easy to deflect arguments saying "OH IT'S JUST WHITEKNIGHTING; STOP DEFENDING HER" instead of acknowledging that the argument is that someone's private life has literally nothing to do with anyone on the internet.
Love that when someone is shown on the media as being upset and victimized, people's reaction isn't to acknowledge that they're legitimately upset and victimized (as in, literally a victim of abuse/death threats), but to accuse them of "crocodile tears". Jesus fucking Christ.
She's not exempt from criticism for her personal affairs because she's a woman, but because they're [I]personal affairs[/I] and it's nobody's fucking business to criticize the way they're handled.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;46376146]Literally never seen anyone say she's a "paragon of social justice". All I've seen is people defending the idea that someone shouldn't be subject to a torrent of abuse, literally ruining their lives, just because of things they do in their private life. It's easy to deflect arguments saying "OH IT'S JUST WHITEKNIGHTING; STOP DEFENDING HER" instead of acknowledging that the argument is that someone's private life has literally nothing to do with anyone on the internet.
Love that when someone is shown on the media as being upset and victimized, people's reaction isn't to acknowledge that they're legitimately upset and victimized (as in, literally a victim of abuse/death threats), but to accuse them of "crocodile tears". Jesus fucking Christ.
She's not exempt from criticism for her personal affairs because she's a woman, but because they're [I]personal affairs[/I] and it's nobody's fucking business to criticize the way they're handled.[/QUOTE]
It's also quite easy to deflect arguments with SHE IS A VICTIM OF HARASSMENT STOP HURTING HER but I don't see you complaining about that.
Also, emotional abuse in a relationship is not 'just' a personal affair, just like how a dude beating his girlfriend isn't either.
Anyone else think all of this has been blown out of proportion?
[QUOTE=Robbobin;46376146]Literally never seen anyone say she's a "paragon of social justice". All I've seen is people defending the idea that someone shouldn't be subject to a torrent of abuse, literally ruining their lives, just because of things they do in their private life. It's easy to deflect arguments saying "OH IT'S JUST WHITEKNIGHTING; STOP DEFENDING HER" instead of acknowledging that the argument is that someone's private life has literally nothing to do with anyone on the internet.
Love that when someone is shown on the media as being upset and victimized, people's reaction isn't to acknowledge that they're legitimately upset and victimized (as in, literally a victim of abuse/death threats), but to accuse them of "crocodile tears". Jesus fucking Christ.
She's not exempt from criticism for her personal affairs because she's a woman, but because they're [I]personal affairs[/I] and it's nobody's fucking business to criticize the way they're handled.[/QUOTE]
I genuinely think you're a good guy so I want to give you some feedback on why I disagreed with your post.
First, I want to say that imo there are two proper ways to deal with Zoe. You either say that it's a private matter and therefore not up for debate or, if you decide to talk about it nonetheless, keep in mind that despite various leads that Zoe abused her boyfriend in their relationship multiple times especially main stream media disregards the entire thing has a "smear campaign" by an "angry ex-boyfriend".
Second, it is not rational to argue that an entire industry is without mistakes because of your personal connections to various journalists. You say that they're just paid to "write words" while that's basically the job of any journalist in every industry.
You talk about the alienation of hobbyist gamers/gaming enthusiasts/gamers and leave out the infamous "gamers are dead" articles.
Lastly, I'd recommend reading this post from TotalBiscuit: [url]http://blueplz.blogspot.com/2014/10/whose-side-am-i-on.html[/url]
Btw, I'm planning to do a 3rd community stream/google hangout about Gamergate on saturday with some other facepunchers (probably at around 10pm BST). You're more than welcome to join us and have a debate.
[QUOTE=Lesovikk1;46376199]Anyone else think all of this has been blown out of proportion?[/QUOTE]
The whole issue has evolved far past Zoe Quinn now and basically it's now boiled to people trying their best to expose the corruption in the video game industry while their detractors are still locked on Zoe Quinn because it's easier to defend her than to actually admit there's a lot of shit wrong with the gaming industry.
it's not a hate campaign on zoe quinn ffs it's a campaign against corruption
have you listened to anybody except anti-gg?
[QUOTE=uber.;46376232]Second, it is not rational to argue that an entire industry is without mistakes because of your personal connections to various journalists. You say that they're just paid to "write words" while that's basically the job of any journalist in every industry.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the conscientious reply. I agree that part of my post was purely anecdotal and non-rational; wasn't really a part of my argument, more of an expression of my bewilderment at the whole thing (should have made that more clear!). Games journalists are under a lot of scrutiny (often quite abusive) by the community and that's upsetting to me when my friends are all under this when I know they all excellent people and treat their journalistic integrity as utterly paramount.
[editline]31st October 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=ThatSprite;46376344]it's not a hate campaign on zoe quinn ffs it's a campaign against corruption
have you listened to anybody except anti-gg?[/QUOTE]
I said "zoe quinn hate campaign" so to separate it [I]from[/I] gamergate as a campaign against corruption. Wasn't trying to equivocate the two.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;46376338]It's not deflection; that's the whole side of the argument. She literally is a victim of harassment and people should stop...
If someone's being abused, I feel others should be within rights to intervene. Should they be within rights to send death threats years after the event? This isn't about protecting her ex from emotional abuse and it never was. It's about slut-shaming and revenge.
This is completely separate from cases of domestic physical violence. In any other case, you wouldn't send death threats and abuse to the attacker; you empowering the victim, elevating them out the abusive relationship.
So she was an abusive girlfriend? She should feel some degree of guilt for the way she treated him. She probably already did. Does anyone truly think she deserves abuse from thousands of anonymous people on the internet? I've been cheated on and emotionally abused in relationships before and I can safely say that an internet hate campaign on said person would be utterly deplorable. I've also been on the other end sadly, and cheated myself. And without the abuse from the internet I felt long months of shame and guilt proportional to my wrongdoing. Nobody has the right to destroy my personal or professional life because of my actions.
I feel like everyone who's involved themselves with the Zoe Quinn hate campaign just hasn't had the right experiences in life to understand what the proportional response should be to her actions. I know this because, if they did, they would have done literally nothing because it's not your fucking place.[/QUOTE]
Of course sending threats and harassment is idiotic. That should go without saying. But why are we to be held accountable for the idiocy of others, and death threats received by pro-GG personalities be brushed off as irrelevant? Because that is happening in every mainstream media account of the events.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;46376322]The whole issue has evolved far past Zoe Quinn now and basically it's now boiled to people trying their best to expose the corruption in the video game industry while their detractors are still locked on Zoe Quinn because it's easier to defend her than to actually admit there's a lot of shit wrong with the gaming industry.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's that they don't want to admit there's anything wrong with the industry. It's rather that they see the ongoing abuse as a bigger issue than the supposed corruption. Not really anything wrong with that; just a matter of perspective. I feel sorry for people who want to fight any corruption in the industry in many ways, because the way this whole equivocation of hate with fighting corruption has really, really damaged the movement.
This whole gamergate phenomenon is just a huge tangled mess in a way it didn't need to be. Imagine if the whole ZQ thing never happened and people just independently decided to investigate for corruption. So much more could fucking get done and so many people would have avoided total alienation from their communities.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;46376406]I don't think it's that they don't want to admit there's anything wrong with the industry. It's rather that they see the ongoing abuse as a bigger issue than the supposed corruption. Not really anything wrong with that; just a matter of perspective. I feel sorry for people who want to fight any corruption in the industry in many ways, because the way this whole equivocation of hate with fighting corruption has really, really damaged the movement.
This whole gamergate phenomenon is just a huge tangled mess in a way it didn't need to be. Imagine if the whole ZQ thing never happened and people just independently decided to investigate for corruption. So much more could fucking get done and so many people would have avoided total alienation from their communities.[/QUOTE]
Sadly, ZQ ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back.
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