Wisconsin Governor Pranked by Pretend Koch Brother Confirming Union Busting Motive
113 replies, posted
[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;28267565]I was listening to Rush "Painkiller" Limbough the other day just because I could, and he says the darndest things.
"I like the increased productivity from the people who work for me because I pay them more than I have to, but if they were in a union I wouldn't pay these guys shit."
Paraphrased from memory, but the message is the same.[/QUOTE]
[Citation Found]
[quote=rush Limbuagh]You know, sometimes I look at how I do business compared to all these other entities, and I just marvel at it. It's not at all the same in terms of employee compensation, benefits packages and so forth. I just have an entirely different mind-set about it than a lot of people do. When I pay people, I expect a bunch of things, and among them is I don't want anybody distracted, and I don't want anybody bothered by traditional compensation problems. I probably pay far more than I have to, but it's worth it to me for the productivity that ends up as a result. It's all worth it to me.
Everybody goes about this in different ways. This is why... If the people that worked for me were members of a union, it would be so different. There wouldn't be any personal relationship that I would have with the employees anything at all. I'd be dealing with people that I would not think are in my best interests, not looking out for me and the company would do well. That would not be their concern. There are so many different business models for doing all of this, which is why I have always said what I've said about joining a union. Free if you want to.
If that's what you want to do, you go right ahead, but understand what happens to you when you do: You have become a vessel for one political party to triumph. You give up your individuality. You're no better than anybody else. Even if you are, it doesn't matter. You're gonna make what everybody else makes 'cause that's the deal, no matter what kind of work you do. If the people working for me had an arbitrator (chuckles), the idea that I could pay them more than what I'm paying them? There's not an arbitrator around who would not agree with that. (interruption) Ummm. (laughing) Does the Official Obama Criticizer have an arbitrator?
No. The Official Obama Criticizer does not have an arbitrator. He doesn't want one, in fact. My point is, let's just take multibillion-dollar company. At this multibillion-dollar company, let's say one of its employees makes $100,000 a year. It clearly has much more than that it can afford to pay somebody. What if an arbitrator said, "Well, you can pay that guy more than a hundred grand," and that's the end of the day? That's the end of it? Bye-bye, business! If that's the only consideration, bye-bye business. That can't possibly work. So I don't want any of you to misunderstand. Binding arbitration is a trap at the end of the day, except maybe in case of year-long impasses and that kind of thing.[/quote]
[url]http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_022311/content/01125111.guest.html[/url]
Nice Twisting yourself. I just read the transcript and there is no mention that he would not pay them.
~snip~
double post
[QUOTE=Glaber;28267849]I read it, but I also read RBM11's post below it where it mentioned Darwin and gave an example of Darwin contradicting his own theory of Evolution and Natural Selection.
[/QUOTE]
That's one of the most widely used Darwin quote-mines you dense fuck, he immediately followed it up with an explanation of how it could happen.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Xen Tricks;28268097]That's one of the most widely used Darwin quote-mines you dense fuck, he immediately followed it up with an explanation of how it could happen.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, as anyone other than Glaber can see, my whole point was that quote mining can make someone look totally against an idea.
Once again, he completely misses the point. I'm kinda starting to feel bad for him. Maybe his views are like certain forms of cancer. You can fight to destroy them as hard as you can, but they will eventually grow even larger and kill you. Not due to the person not trying hard enough, but because of the cancers' basic properties that prevent them from being treated by any means no matter how hard you try.
Maybe it's a fundamental brain structure issue or something? Really not trying to be mean with this post.
You should send funding to schools equally like Canada.
[editline]24th February 2011[/editline]
none of that retarded no child left behind shit
Next time, link to the source. If you want to prove a point you must be clear or the point will keep going over peoples' heads.
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28268199]You should send funding to schools equally like Canada.
[editline]24th February 2011[/editline]
none of that retarded no child left behind shit[/QUOTE]
That may actually be a good Idea. But, If we were to do that, we'd probably run into problem with the teacher's unions as some areas might be paied more than others currently and an attempt to equalize could result in the higher paid areas getting reduced pay while the lower paid areas get more.
I do like the idea though. It's better than "No Child Left Behind" as that program actually leaves children behind. I know I felt Left behind when that program came into effect.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28268215]Next time, link to the source. If you want to prove a point you must be clear or the point will keep going over peoples' heads[/QUOTE]
You should start practicing what you preach.
I mean fuck I even greatly exaggerated my post before the quote.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28268215]Next time, link to the source. If you want to prove a point you must be clear or the point will keep going over peoples' heads[/QUOTE]
Guys, we have to try hard to place our posts on level with Glaber's head:
[img]http://corporatecatapult.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/head-in-the-sand.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28268237]You should start practicing what you preach.[/QUOTE]
Believe me, I'm trying to be as clear as possible. I still don't understand where Thy Reaper got that I want schools to close, especially because I was using Detroit as an example of what a State is doing to try to balance a budget and I never said if I support it or not. I'm actually on the fence about What my state is doing as Wisconsin has my attention currently.
Also Sega Saturn, where did you get that quote from anyway?
[QUOTE=Glaber;28268215]Next time, link to the source. If you want to prove a point you must be clear or the point will keep going over peoples' heads.
That may actually be a good Idea. But, If we were to do that, we'd probably run into problem with the teacher's unions as some areas might be paied more than others currently and an attempt to equalize could result in the higher paid areas getting reduced pay while the lower paid areas get more.
I do like the idea though. It's better than "No Child Left Behind" as that program actually leaves children behind.[b] I know I felt Left behind when that program came into effect.[/b][/QUOTE]
What the fuck does this even mean?
[editline]25th February 2011[/editline]
And no child left behind can let failures get to the next grade. It looks good on paper.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28267849][Citation Needed] Where did I say I wanted Schools to shut down? My example of what my State is doing to try to balance the Budget? Nice (Bad)reading between the lines there.[/QUOTE]
I was going by HumanAbyss remarking that you wanted to cut the education budget before other things, and you not mentioning that as wrong. If you don't want to cut the education budget, you can safely ignore that particular post. You're still a sick, twisted individual from the countless other horrible things you've said.
Full quote Glaber:
[quote]To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.
[B]Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.[/B][/quote]This is the exact same way the author manipulated FDR's quote for his own agenda. I posted my example, hopefully to draw a parallel between the FDR quote and the most common and literally textbook definition of quote mining that I assumed everyone would know about.
Maybe my post being highly exaggerated would tip even those who had no idea what Darwin's quote was to maybe google it or the term quote mining. But you took it as fact.
I'm really starting to understand how people like Hitler or groups like the Khmer Rouge manipulated their people to commit genocide against millions of another group of people.
If you go to any right wing news site and read the comments under a story about Muslims, you'll likely see at least one person say something to the effect of "'we must shoot/nuke/forcibly convert/destroy these intolerant/evil/genocidal Muslim barbarians/criminals/murderers/rapists *insert Quran verse*'
21 people like this!"
They are the ones advocating genocide, yet the Muslims are the intolerant ones. It's no different than Muslim extremists doing the same.
Of course much more commonly it's benign "These communists are infiltrating our society/these unions are destroying America"
But they both happen the same way and often the former evolves from the latter.
[editline]24th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Glaber;28268410]Believe me, I'm trying to be as clear as possible. I still don't understand where Thy Reaper got that I want schools to close, especially because I was using Detroit as an example of what a State is doing to try to balance a budget and I never said if I support it or not. I'm actually on the fence about What my state is doing as Wisconsin has my attention currently.
Also Sega Saturn, where did you get that quote from anyway?[/QUOTE]
You can google parts of quotes and the full one will pop up.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28268410]Believe me, I'm trying to be as clear as possible. I still don't understand where Thy Reaper got that I want schools to close, especially because I was using Detroit as an example of what a State is doing to try to balance a budget and I never said if I support it or not. I'm actually on the fence about What my state is doing as Wisconsin has my attention currently.
Also Sega Saturn, where did you get that quote from anyway?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act[/url]
Further cited to Millis, Harry A., From the Wagner act to Taft-Hartley; a study of labor policy and labor relations, University of Chicago Press., 1950.
Here's two good reasons why I didn't post the source:
1. You would have read the introduction of the article and found that the Wagner Act did not apply to the public sector and then asserted that your points still stand valid, even though when Roosevelt said those things he was speaking about labor issues in general in a "Senate address on May 8, 1937"
2. “The right to bargain collectively is at the bottom of social justice for the worker, as well as the sensible conduct of business affairs. The denial or observance of this right means the difference between despotism and democracy.” I originally took out the part that read "as well as the sensible conduct of business affairs," because I knew you would hang on that as if it were exclusive to one side of the issues.
I can't throw you any bones or else you'll go running with them like a child with a balloon. I guarantee that your first urge after reading that is to wave around that Roosevelt mentioned business when talking about labor, and thus "wasn't talking about the public sector," even though the thought was tacked on to let the people know he wasn't talking about the public sector [i]exclusively.[/i]
[QUOTE=Nikota;28268440]What the fuck does this even mean?
[editline]25th February 2011[/editline]
And no child left behind can let failures get to the next grade. It looks good on paper.[/QUOTE]
It means that when the program came into effect during High School, I felt that it wasn't doing anything for my education. Instead of learning more, I wasn't learning as much and felt that I wasn't getting a good education. This was especially evident in my C++ class where I'd even beat myself up literally for not being able to get what was being taught. So instead of being brought up to speed, I was being left behind.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;28268553]I was going by HumanAbyss remarking that you wanted to cut the education budget before other things, and you not mentioning that as wrong. If you don't want to cut the education budget, you can safely ignore that particular post. You're still a sick, twisted individual from the countless other horrible things you've said.[/QUOTE]
If he changes his opinions here, i can shout hurrah.
massive lulz itt
[QUOTE=Glaber;28268709]It means that when the program came into effect during High School, I felt that it wasn't doing anything for my education. Instead of learning more, I wasn't learning as much and felt that I wasn't getting a good education. This was especially evident in my C++ class where I'd even beat myself up literally for not being able to get what was being taught. So instead of being brought up to speed, I was being left behind.[/QUOTE]
While No Child Left Behind is a laughable system, it isn't responsible for a bad programming class. Bad programming classes are overwhelmingly the norm due to how long it takes for education to catch up to the state of an industry, especially a very new one.
Glenn Beck is a NAZI!!!
He said it not me!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucL2GKgfp8U[/media]
Glaber, let me point something out:
We are all here:
[img]http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/earth-day/7764182-1-eng-US/Earth-Day_full_600.jpg[/img]
You are here
[img]http://www.bobcesca.com/images/landofthelost4.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Sega Saturn;28268687][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act[/url]
Further cited to Millis, Harry A., From the Wagner act to Taft-Hartley; a study of labor policy and labor relations, University of Chicago Press., 1950.
Here's two good reasons why I didn't post the source:
1. You would have read the introduction of the article and found that the Wagner Act did not apply to the public sector and then asserted that your points still stand valid, even though when Roosevelt said those things he was speaking about labor issues in general in a "[B]Senate address on May 8, 1937[/B]"
2. “The right to bargain collectively is at the bottom of social justice for the worker, as well as the sensible conduct of business affairs. The denial or observance of this right means the difference between despotism and democracy.” I originally took out the part that read "as well as the sensible conduct of business affairs," because I knew you would hang on that as if it were exclusive to one side of the issues.
I can't throw you any bones or else you'll go running with them like a child with a balloon. I guarantee that your first urge after reading that is to wave around that Roosevelt mentioned business when talking about labor, and thus "wasn't talking about the public sector," even though the thought was tacked on to let the people know he wasn't talking about the public sector [i]exclusively.[/i][/QUOTE]
You might have just thrown me one without realizing it. You see, there this matter of Time involved.
The quote you used comes from May 8th of 1937, but the quote the Washington times uses comes from Aug. 16th of the same year, 1937. You almost had me there, but if it wasn't for the Washington times giving out an exact date for their quote, I would of conceded defeat.
good fucking god.
i don't even have words for the fucking mental gymnastics you do. Do you realize that you're doing some fucking amazing mental gymnastics here? you are.
So Glaber, do you not want to cut the education budget, or was I right? Please, let me be wrong!
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;28269419]good fucking god.
i don't even have words for the fucking mental gymnastics you do. Do you realize that you're doing some fucking amazing mental gymnastics here? you are.[/QUOTE]
Actually I do. But it's not just the mental stuff, but the use of the internet too. I was originally trying to find an online version of Wikipedia's source of that quote, but the page was either down or missing so I was unable to find out more about the quote in question. So just as I was about to admit Defeat, I took one last look at the dates of the quotes. My quote wound up being the later one.
[editline]24th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;28269460]So Glaber, do you not want to cut the education budget, or was I right? Please, let me be wrong![/QUOTE]
Personally I rather not, but if the test scores don't improve. Well, what would you do? This isn't an easy choice you know.
[QUOTE=RBM11;28268992]Glenn Beck is a NAZI!!!
He said it not me!
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucL2GKgfp8U[/media][/QUOTE]
Okay, That' I don't believe, Reason: Glenn's history of nonsense used to prove a point that I've been exposed too. (EX: the boiling of a Frog that turned out to be plastic with edited footage inserted before the toss in)
Plus there has been an over use of Fox quote mines. I was never exposed to a Darwin quote mine until today.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28269506]Personally I rather not, but if the test scores don't improve. Well, what would you do? This isn't an easy choice you know.[/QUOTE]
Really? Test scores aren't improving let's eliminate the entire budget! That'll fix the problem.
WW2: "Hmm the situation in Italy is not improving. I KNOW!!! LET'S STOP SENDING OUR TROOPS SUPPLIES THAT'LL MAKE US WIN!!!!"
Do you not realize how dumb that sounds?
[quote]Okay, That' I don't believe, Reason: Glenn's history of nonsense used to prove a point that I've been exposed too. (EX: the boiling of a Frog that turned out to be plastic with edited footage inserted before the toss in)
Plus there has been an over use of Fox quote mines. I was never exposed to a Darwin quote mine until today.[/quote]The post I was responding to, combined with my language exaggeration and the implausibility of Darwin disproving his own theory, would have led any rational reader to conclude that was NOT what Darwin meant or the quote was fake, prompting them to research the quote to see the truth.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28269395]You might have just thrown me one without realizing it. You see, there this matter of Time involved.
The quote you used comes from May 8th of 1937, but the quote the Washington times uses comes from Aug. 16th of the same year, 1937. You almost had me there, but if it wasn't for the Washington times giving out an exact date for their quote, I would of conceded defeat.[/QUOTE]
The exact date has nothing to do with it, and we both know that you're too dense to concede ground no matter how badly you are beaten. I looked up the letter that you quoted in the Washington Times. He wrote this: "As I am unable to accept your kind invitation to be present on the occasion of the Twentieth Jubilee Convention of the National Federation of Federal Employees, I am taking this method of sending greetings and a message.
Reading your letter of July 14, 1937, I was especially interested in the timeliness of your remark that the manner in which the activities of your organization have been carried on during the past two decades "has been in complete consonance with the best traditions of public employee relationships." Organizations of Government employees have a logical place in Government affairs.
The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. Organization on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations. The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress. Accordingly, administrative officials and employees alike are governed and guided, and in many instances restricted, by laws which establish policies, procedures, or rules in personnel matters.
Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees. Upon employees in the Federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people, whose interests and welfare require orderliness and continuity in the conduct of Government activities. This obligation is paramount. Since their own services have to do with the functioning of the Government, a strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable. It is, therefore, with a feeling of gratification that I have noted in the constitution of the National Federation of Federal Employees the provision that "under no circumstances shall this Federation engage in or support strikes against the United States Government."
I congratulate the National Federation of Federal Employees the twentieth anniversary of its founding and trust that the convention will, in every way, be successful."
He writes that public employees should be allowed to form unions and petition the public for better working conditions, but should aware that because they cannot draw the entire American public into talks over working conditions that they should not be allowed to strike over their grievances as other unions are allowed to do, since their commitment to the people should be paramount. But notice this sentence: "Organizations of Government employees have a logical place in Government affairs." Roosevelt has remarked here that government employees have the right to represent themselves in unions. Not according to your beloved Governor Walker, who seems to think that government employees should not be allowed to form unions at all, and should be forced into any condition that his organization seems fit, throwing their rights to the wayside.
Since the people of Wisconsin are striking not because of their working conditions being worsened by cost-cutting legislation, but are instead protesting the fact that the Governor is blatantly and admittedly trying to bust unions in the interests of his campaign contributors, I believe that Roosevelt would have stood by the strikers on this occasion.
[url]http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445[/url]
Now that that is out of the way, whether or not FDR would have personally stood by these workers has absolutely nothing to do with the morality of this governor. All of us can agree that there is a conflict of interest here, but you seem too blinded by your partisan, Fox-news inspired fanaticism to acknowledge that this governor, not all Republicans, but just this governor, is a piece of trash that needs to be removed from office.
oh snap you just got told glaber
Supreme Court needs to overturn Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission or politicians will become even more of corporate shills than they already are.
[editline]24th February 2011[/editline]
[U][U][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNaZedAWmlE[/media][/U]
[/U]
Come on Glaber, respond to Sega!
[QUOTE=Glaber;28269506]Personally I rather not, but if the test scores don't improve. Well, what would you do? This isn't an easy choice you know.[/QUOTE]
How does non-improving test scores necessitate reducing the budget? That's about as opposite of a good response as you can get. It's like a doctor giving a patient a weak anti-biotic for a disease it could treat. When the patient doesn't respond, instead of trying something different, or giving a bigger dosage, he just gives up treating him.
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