• "The constitution has failed" - Ron Paul delivers farewell speech to Congress, freedom
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[QUOTE=RinVII;38464574]The most significant leader of the Federal Reserve (arguably the most powerful man in the world) was a disciple of Ayn Rand. You can laugh at her ideas all you want, you can't sneeze off her significance to politics. Keep throwing around "funny" ratings, it won't change the asininity.[/QUOTE] by that logic L Ron Hubbard was one of the foremost thinkers of his age
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38464552]because she's our favorite punching bag as for more important philosophers, just off the top of my head: aristotle, plato, socrates, aquinas, confucius, kant, hume, william of ockham, thomas bayes, isaac newton, [B]foucault [/B](say what you want about postmodernism, foucalt was a sharp cookie), [B]russel[/B], [B]hofstadter[/B], [B]dennet[/B], betham, mill, paine, moldbug[/QUOTE] Did you miss the part where I said [B]19th century[/B] I went ahead and bolded your only arguments.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464500]Rand[/QUOTE] Don't you think someone must be really shit when the only mention they get is the fact that they're a massive cunt
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464508]I go to a public university in one of the most liberal states in the country, she has been mentioned not only in some of my philosophy and history courses but also in every single economics course.[/QUOTE] must be a shit university then
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464606]Did you miss the part where I said [B]19th century[/B] I went ahead and bolded your only arguments.[/QUOTE] You clearly said [B]20th century[/B]
Ron Paul has a few stupid ideas but at least his ideas are his and not a lobbyist's
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38464579]Vladimir Lenin[/QUOTE] Was a politician, could you list one of his premier intellectual works please?
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464606]Did you miss the part where I said [B]19th century[/B] I went ahead and bolded your only arguments.[/QUOTE] yes I did miss it, where the hell did you say anything about the 19th century [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] also moldbug is alive and well [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=RinVII;38464629]Was a politician, could you list one of his premier intellectual works please?[/QUOTE] he has an ism named after him
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464629]Was a politician, could you list one of his premier intellectual works please?[/QUOTE] Have them all. [url]http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/cw/index.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38464634]yes I did miss it, where the hell did you say anything about the 19th century[/QUOTE] Obvious typo, doesn't change the fact that you listed a more than 2000 year old philosopher. [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;38464615]must be a shit university then[/QUOTE] 16th in the world. Grow the fuck up
By the way MBB, I would like to see your response to my arguments in case you're still reading this.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38464645]Have them all. [url]http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/cw/index.htm[/url][/QUOTE] His intellectual works by themselves are not as significant as say Rand's Capitalism the Unknown Ideal. Lenin was just a simple derivative of Marx, and you know that. If you want to make the point that Marx is more important than Rand, I'll concede to it. But not Lenin.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464647]Obvious typo, doesn't change the fact that you listed a more than 2000 year old philosopher.[/QUOTE] you want 20th century philosophers? I got 20th century philosophers, all of them better than ayn fucking rand: hofstadter, dennet, moldbug, hayek, russel, turing, popper, minsky, jaynes, parfit, chomsky, keynes, friedan i'm only scratching the surface
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464647]16th in the world. Grow the fuck up[/QUOTE] You go to the Uni of Pennsylvania but you can't even name a 20th century Political philosopher more influential than Ayn fucking Rand. If it wasn't for Lenin, the USSR and almost every Communist state created since wouldn't exist (at least in their recognized form).
[QUOTE=NoDachi;38464594]Christ even Mao was a bigger and more important intellectual[/QUOTE] Implying the little red book has the rigor of The Virtue of Selfishness (not that the latter has much to begin with). [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38464729]you want 20th century philosophers? I got 20th century philosophers, all of them better than ayn fucking rand: hofstadter, dennet, moldbug, [B]hayek[/B], [B]russel[/B], turing, [B]popper[/B], minsky, jaynes, parfit, [B]chomsky[/B], [B]keynes[/B], [B]friedman[/B][/QUOTE] I never said better, I said more significant. I bolded the ones that I think were good arguments.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464629]Was a politician, could you list one of his premier intellectual works please?[/QUOTE] He was an idiot and a tyrant, yet his ideology was still far far better than Rand's
I think Popper was the greatest philosopher of the 20th century, if we want to consider Keynes as a philosopher then he was obviously the most significant. [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;38464754]He was an idiot and a tyrant, yet his ideology was still far far [B]better [/B]than Rand's[/QUOTE] Never said it wasn't.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464731]I never said better, I said more significant. I bolded the ones that I think were good arguments.[/QUOTE] turing is the man responsible for the device you're using to communicate with me, and the entire field and philosophy of artificial intelligence. I [I]think[/I] he's pretty significant popper's works speak for themselves, jaynes explained and proved how fucking [I]inference[/I] works, parfit's thoughts on identity are nearly unparalleled. [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] you might go to a good university but you're a shit debater, admit it. you're constantly shifting the terms of the debate and wiggling out by arguing semantics.
obumo will lead us 2 communism red means Dead - Ron paol 2012
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464706]His intellectual works by themselves are not as significant as say Rand's Capitalism the Unknown Ideal.[/QUOTE] Ayn Rand's college degree was in the field of social pedagogy, she majored in history, and she knows jack shit about writing and even less about economics. Lenin on the other hand, studied law, founded a party, took over Russia, and then worked until he dropped dead of a stroke after achieving his goal. At least he was intelligent enough to form a party that he had complete control over (after the split) and managed to play off various factions in Russia and abroad in order to win the civil war.
Yes, but what Rand has going for her is that she's a pop philosopher (for better or worse). Go down the street and ask someone their opinion on Turing and they won't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Regardless, you've all built a strawman.. let me restate the claim I made before. [quote]The fact of the matter is that she was [B]perhaps [/B]the most important [B]political [/B]philosopher [/quote] Politics is unfortunately the sector of society that is most affected by pop philosophy and intellectualism. [editline]15th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38464794] you might go to a good university but you're a shit debater, admit it. you're constantly shifting the terms of the debate and wiggling out by [B]arguing semantics[/B].[/QUOTE] It seems to me this wouldn't be necessary if you would stop changing my argument.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464847]Yes, but what Rand has going for her is that she's a pop philosopher (for better or worse). Go down the street and ask someone their opinion on Turing and they won't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Regardless, you've all built a strawman.. let me restate the claim I made before. Politics is unfortunately the sector of society that is most affected by pop philosophy and intellectualism.[/QUOTE] wow dodged a bullet there didnt you
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38464828]Ayn Rand's college degree was in the field of social pedagogy, she majored in history, and she knows jack shit about writing and even less about economics. Lenin on the other hand, studied law, founded a party, took over Russia, and then worked until he dropped dead of a stroke after achieving his goal. At least he was intelligent enough to form a party that he had complete control over (after the split) and managed to play off various factions in Russia and abroad in order to win the civil war.[/QUOTE] Lenin was more intelligent than Ayn Rand, her intellectual works however were more significant to politics than the few works he completed throughout the course of his career.
Okay lets list intellectuals from the 20th century that I would put before Rand. (this is going to take a while but here goes) FREUD T. S. ELIOT TROTSKY HEIDEGGER JACQUES LACAN CLAUDE LÉVI-STRAUSS ROLAND BARTHES LOUIS ALTHUSSER PAUL DE MAN GILLES DELEUZE FÉLIX GUATTARI MICHEL FOUCAULT JACQUES DERRIDA EDWARD W. SAID HÉLÉNE CIXOUS JULIA KRISTEVA GAYATRI CHAKRAVORTY SPIVAK TERRY EAGLETON KATHERINE HAYLES DICK HEBDIGE PAUL GILROY JUDITH BUTLER Sorry for the formatting, I really couldn't be arsed to change to from the Norton Anthology site. And plus, I'm only scratching the surface with what I know.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464847]It seems to me this wouldn't be necessary if you would stop changing my argument.[/QUOTE] it would help if you actually laid out your argument properly as far as I can tell, you think that rand is the most influential political philosopher of the 20th century because .. uh .. one of her disciples became head of the Fed not only is that pathetic compared to say, Lenin, the fucking federal reserve is contrary to the very ideals of objectivism in the first place.
Nice, to see that you admitted to simply copying that off of a website. Can you please explain to me how even one of those people were more significant than Rand in terms of politics? My argument has never been that she was the premier intellectual of her time.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;38463006]It's really not comparable. If Somalia and the United States adopted the same government style (regardless of the type) the US would naturally outperform Somalia because of the [B]pre-existing conditions.[/B][/QUOTE] I never realised health insurance was so important to the survival of a nation.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464847]Yes, but what Rand has going for her is that she's a pop philosopher (for better or worse). Go down the street and ask someone their opinion on Turing and they won't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. Regardless, you've all built a strawman.. let me restate the claim I made before. Politics is unfortunately the sector of society that is most affected by pop philosophy and intellectualism.[/QUOTE] This is really getting quite ridiculous. She's a popular philosopher among those who agree with her, but I guess if we were going by some weird metric of significance where we judge a person based on how much they are disagreed with, then yeah [I]perhaps[/I] she was the most important, but this is just semantics.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464346]Which system solves every problem?[/QUOTE] the one that changes to accommodate to society and actively solve problems using logic, reason and empiricism.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38464916]it would help if you actually laid out your argument properly as far as I can tell, you think that rand is the most influential political philosopher of the 20th century because .. uh .. one of her disciples became head of the Fed[/QUOTE] Not really, it just seems to me that anyone well versed in politics is well aware of and already has a clear opinion on her ideas. Lenin is significant because of his legacy as a politician, not because of his intellectual works.
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