"The constitution has failed" - Ron Paul delivers farewell speech to Congress, freedom
316 replies, posted
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464925]Nice, to see that you admitted to simply copying that off of a website.
Can you please explain to me how even one of those people were more significant than Rand in terms of politics?
My argument has never been that she was the premier intellectual of her time.[/QUOTE]
No I copied them off the website because I don't have my Norton Anthology of the people we've studied while I'm out of town, and it's easier.
Plus I only cherry picked about 20%.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464894]Lenin was more intelligent than Ayn Rand, her intellectual works however were more significant to politics than the few works he completed throughout the course of his career.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism,_the_Highest_Stage_of_Capitalism#Intellectual_influence[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Theses#Effects[/url]
Not to mention his works became widely read by many aspiring communist revolutionaries.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464960]Not really, it just seems to me that anyone well versed in politics is well aware of and already has a clear opinion on her ideas. Lenin is significant because of his legacy as a politician, not because of his intellectual works.[/QUOTE]
Ayn Rand is dumb and out of touch, now get out.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38464975][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism,_the_Highest_Stage_of_Capitalism#Intellectual_influence[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Theses#Effects[/url][/QUOTE]
The periphery model is a good argument, I remember learning about it to some extent in political science.
How many politicians today do you think are aware of the April Theses?
[editline]15th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Irkalla;38464995]Ayn Rand is dumb and out of touch, now get out.[/QUOTE]
Awesome argument, you'll do well in school if you ever decide to finally go.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38465005]The periphery model is a good argument, I remember learning about it to some extent in political science.
How many politicians today do you think are aware of the April Theses?[/QUOTE]
Fact of the matter is that he directly started a revolution in Russia, and the publication helped him with bringing back party members to his side.
Unrelated to Lenin: I Think William Beveridge and his works were more influential than Ayn Rand in fact (and his works are something British politicians know about).
This thread has been completely derailed, my bad
[editline]15th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38465050]Fact of the matter is that he directly started a revolution in Russia, and the publication helped him with bringing back party members to his side.[/QUOTE]
Yes but he didn't start a revolution in Russia as an intellectual, he was a politician and a tyrant.
[editline]15th November 2012[/editline]
Lenin was primarily a politician influenced by an intellectual not the other way around.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38464847]Yes, but what Rand has going for her is that she's a pop philosopher (for better or worse).
Go down the street and ask someone their opinion on Turing and they won't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]
It all makes sense now.
Rand is the Beiber of the philosophical world.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38465127]
Rand is the Bieber of the philosophical world.[/QUOTE]
Essentially.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38465053]Yes but he didn't start a revolution in Russia as an intellectual, he was a politician and a tyrant.[/QUOTE]
Except he was more influential than Ayn Rand, who basically took the paper output of a small European country and wrote a shit book with it.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38465133]Essentially.[/QUOTE]
I guess. No one will care about Bieber in the future, and nor will Bieber really influence music.
Maybe she's more like the Elvis Presley then.
you guys all seem to be forgetting the most influential economist of the late 20th century, morgan freeman
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;38464412]Regardless of whether it's proven to be false, there is absolutely no reasonable ground for believing in it. Being so sure about its truth as creationists are when all signs are pointing to the theories of evolution and the Big Bang just shows poor judgment.[/QUOTE]
Okay? Doesn't mean people who believe in it (majority of humans) automatically unintelligent
[QUOTE=RinVII;38465180]Maybe she's more like the Elvis Presley then.[/QUOTE]
No no, I think Bieber is about right... except Bieber was popular.
[QUOTE=RinVII;38465005]
Awesome argument, you'll do well in school if you ever decide to finally go.[/QUOTE]
Oh hey guys I'm just going to insult people based on regional stereotypes because that's mature and proper. I'm so good at debating.
Really though there's no reason any of us should be debating with you, you're pretty much evidence of what Ayn Rand does to someone's mind.
[QUOTE=MBB;38465221]Okay? Doesn't mean people who believe in it (majority of humans) automatically unintelligent[/QUOTE]
I'd actually argue that someone who refuses to accept something when provided with evidence, while blindly holding to something with no supporting evidence is unintelligent.
That or lacking in education. I don't see how you can splice that any other way.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38465291]I'd actually argue that someone who refuses to accept something when provided with evidence, while blindly holding to something with no supporting evidence is unintelligent.
That or lacking in education. I don't see how you can splice that any other way.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry that less than 20% of Americans are in your elite club of the only "intelligent" people on Earth
[QUOTE=MBB;38465310]I'm sorry that less than 20% of Americans are in your elite club of the only "intelligent" people on Earth[/QUOTE]
[quote]That or lacking in education.[/quote]
If you have not been taught some of the basics of critical thinking/rational thought/whatever buzzword you want to use, you cannot be expected to accurately weight the significance of information that is being presented to you.
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38465291]I'd actually argue that someone who refuses to accept something when provided with evidence, while blindly holding to something with no supporting evidence is unintelligent.
That or lacking in education. I don't see how you can splice that any other way.[/QUOTE]
Or religious. Sorry :v:
I'm actually religious tho so its k rite?
[QUOTE=Irkalla;38465398]Or religious. Sorry :v:
I'm actually religious tho so its k rite?[/QUOTE]
i can understand faith in a higher power but religion? why affilate yourself with a group dedicated to separation?
[QUOTE=Zephyrs;38465358]If you have not been taught some of the basics of critical thinking/rational thought/whatever buzzword you want to use, you cannot be expected to accurately weight the significance of information that is being presented to you.[/QUOTE]
Yes, because over 80% of Americans somehow have no education on basic science/evolution.
*I* didn't say they weren't intelligent. I said they were somewhat mentally retarded, as they form at least one illogical conclusion.
And it's entirely possible for the majority of people to be mentally retarded, why wouldn't it be?
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;38465469]*I* didn't say they weren't intelligent. I said they were somewhat mentally retarded, as they form at least one illogical conclusion.
And it's entirely possible for the majority of people to be mentally retarded, why wouldn't it be?[/QUOTE]
...if you can't see how 80% of Americans being mentally retarded is a ridiculous claim, then I'm done here.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;38462528]Oh come on guys, he's spot on about a lot of things in that speech. I disagree with a lot of his ideology but I admire the man.[/QUOTE]
You don't actually believe that, on further review, and I'll put $10 on it.
Get a transcript, look at a list of his normal platitudinous bullshit, misconceptions and lies, and see what of that speech doesn't fall into one of those two categories. Then come back and tell me with a straight face (I assume you have Skype) that you think he was "spot on" about anything.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;38464416]I don't get the idea that you should respect or like someone just because they genuinely believe what they are saying. Especially if what they are saying is batshit crazy and dangerous to the well being of 300+ Million people and quite likely many more than that.[/QUOTE]
Better the devil you know. I'd rather an honest idiot than a proven liar.
That isn't a defense of Paul, though, because he is the same lying career politician his fans pretend he isn't.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38465191]you guys all seem to be forgetting the most influential economist of the late 20th century, morgan freeman[/QUOTE]
I'm much more fond of Hugh Hefner.
[QUOTE=MBB;38465420]Yes, because over 80% of Americans somehow have no education on basic science/evolution.[/QUOTE]
That is not what I said at all.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;38465398]Or religious. Sorry :v:
I'm actually religious tho so its k rite?[/QUOTE]
Depends. If you deny scientific findings because of your religious beliefs, you fit into one or both of the categories I listed. Not that this rules out the possibility of a higher power, merely that having god(s) interfere with what is observable fact, and the theories derived to explain those fact, puts you there.
[QUOTE=MBB;38465554]...if you can't see how 80% of Americans being mentally retarded is a ridiculous claim, then I'm done here.[/QUOTE]
Why can't they not be?
Please do tell me.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;38465718]Why can't they not be?
Please do tell me.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001523.htm[/url]
[quote]Mental retardation affects about 1 - 3% of the population.[/quote]
[QUOTE=MBB;38465818][url]http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001523.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
[quote]Mental retardation is a condition diagnosed before age 18 that includes below-average general intellectual function, and a lack of the skills necessary for daily living.[/quote]
Okay, I'll admit mental retardation is a bad term.
However, as logical thought is one of the basic things that make us human, and quite important for human life, I do see making illogical conclusions as a bad thing, as some form of illness related to the mind, though it's not mental retardation by the accepted medical definition.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;38465891]Okay, I'll admit mental retardation is a bad term.
However, as logical thought is one of the basic things that make us human, and quite important for human life, I do see making illogical conclusions as a bad thing, as some form of illness related to the mind, though it's not mental retardation by the accepted medical definition.[/QUOTE]
there isn't really anything that 'makes us human' if you're referring to something that another human does not have. logic and thought process is learned to a great extent, so if you go without the educational process for the larger portion of your early years then you're doomed to have no thought process of logic.
[QUOTE=Irkalla;38465253]Oh hey guys I'm just going to insult people based on regional stereotypes because that's mature and proper. I'm so good at debating.[/quote]
Sorry, I'm actually not sure what you're referring to here.
[quote]Really though there's no reason any of us should be debating with you, you're pretty much evidence of what Ayn Rand does to someone's mind.[/QUOTE]
I don't actually like Ayn Rand, I'm just familiar with her work and have read a lot of it.
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