Marine who urinated on dead Taliban sentenced to 30 days in jail
352 replies, posted
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;38917255]no its a valid comparison, people are just double standard and wanting that agree rating cause their moral standards are so fucking weird, im outie[/QUOTE]
One is an example of freedom of speech being used to do something offensive.
The other is someone physically desecrating a body.
If you really can't see the difference between the two then I don't know what to tell you.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;38917255]no its a valid comparison, people are just double standard and wanting that agree rating cause their moral standards are so fucking weird, im outie[/QUOTE]
Your posts are deteriorating into something worse.
[QUOTE=Sir Drone;38917287]So they did it for laughs or pure hatred and venting off some steam?[/QUOTE]
They did it because they thought it made them cool. Hence why they video taped it.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;38917255]no its a valid comparison, people are just double standard and wanting that agree rating cause their moral standards are so fucking weird, im outie[/QUOTE]
You act as if we approve of what the WBC is doing. It's because banning any type of speech, no matter how unpopular or disrespectful it is sets a dangerous fucking precedent.
While an excessive sentence would have been rather cruel, 30 days is nothing. Should have been at the very least a few months. This really feels more like a token morale gesture than anything else
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38914854]You're un-fucking-believable if you think he deserves this sentence, or, god help you, a lighter one.
If your troops can't show basic discipline they shouldn't be given permission to wield a firearm, let alone kill someone. Getting 'stressed' is no excuse to desecrate the other side's corpses. If a Taliban fighter 'got stressed' and decided to piss on a dead American soldier, he'd probably be in Guantanamo.
They are [I]very[/I] stressed in that photo, indeed, with all of their smiles.[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure the taliban would do something muuuch worse to the corpse of a US serviceman/woman, like honestly guys the taliban are pretty brutal.
Not saying that this is right though, the whole urinating thing.
30 days is not just "nothing" for this marine, along with demotion he most definitely WILL NOT be selected for retention in the Marine Corps. Any amount of brig time in the Navy or Marine Corps is a one way ticket out of your career. This guys going to lose his career and everything he's known for as long as he's been in, in short he's fucked even though its just 30 days.
Don't bother InvaderNouga, these guys won't accept the fact that that is indeed how the military genuinely operates.
[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;38917663]Pretty sure the taliban would do something muuuch worse to the corpse of a US serviceman/woman.[/QUOTE]
Who cares?
If the US, and by extension NATO as a whole is going to militarily occupy a country under the morale tarp of instilling democracy and stopping terrorism, then they need to actively display those principles. Desecrating bodies is something that animalistic extremist zealots do, not professional soldiers who are supposed to be instilling democracy and lawful, fair society.
Honestly I think 30 day jail time is a pretty just punishment. Though maybe it should've been 2-3 months? I dunno.
[QUOTE=hypno-toad;38917750]Who cares?
If the US, and by extension NATO as a whole is going to militarily occupy a country under the morale tarp of instilling democracy and stopping terrorism, then they need to actively display those principles. Desecrating bodies is something that animalistic extremist zealots do, not professional soldiers who are supposed to be instilling democracy and lawful, fair society.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry I didn't mean it like that, I was just saying... I guess what I said was pretty off-topic.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;38917688]30 days is not just "nothing" for this marine, along with demotion he most definitely WILL NOT be selected for retention in the Marine Corps. Any amount of brig time in the Navy or Marine Corps is a one way ticket out of your career. This guys going to lose his career and everything he's known for as long as he's been in, in short he's fucked even though its just 30 days.[/QUOTE]
Then go find a new job.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38917758]Then go find a new job.[/QUOTE]
If only it was that simple, it's not. I'm not supporting his actions, I'm just saying there's a whole lot more to this than just 30 days.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;38917688]30 days is not just "nothing" for this marine, along with demotion he most definitely WILL NOT be selected for retention in the Marine Corps. Any amount of brig time in the Navy or Marine Corps is a one way ticket out of your career. This guys going to lose his career and everything he's known for as long as he's been in, in short he's fucked even though its just 30 days.[/QUOTE]
It's a deserved consequence of his overly stupid, unnecessary, cruel actions.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38917801]It's a deserved consequence of his overly stupid, unnecessary, cruel actions.[/QUOTE]
You are right! I'm not supporting his actions. Again all I'm saying is that he's getting a lot more punishment than it seems like he is right now.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38917758]Then go find a new job.[/QUOTE]
He will probably get an "Other than honorable" discharge. This would make his employment options dwindle to near zero.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38917821]He will probably get an "Other than honorable" discharge. This would make his employment options dwindle to near zero.[/QUOTE]
you've yet to prove this.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38917821]He will probably get an "Other than honorable" discharge. This would make his employment options dwindle to near zero.[/QUOTE]
Except he didn't. If he did, it would've been a part of the sentence he just received. Furthermore, OTHs are basically the lesser version of a dishonorable discharge. Dishonorable discharges would be equivalent of a felony and would lesson his chances of unemployment.
Other than honorable discharges is a discharge but without the long term consequences - you got entirely wrong.
I'd be a lot more sympathetic/accepting of the heat of the moment thing if they didn't videotape it. I mean if you [B]have[/B] to piss on a corpse of some guy that was trying to fucking kill you, fine whatever, but don't film it.
Sentence is light and anyone excusing this behavior as "Well they are just soldiers and they need to let off some steam lol" needs to get some perspective.
[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;38917842]you've yet to prove this.[/QUOTE]
I hate quoting wikipedia, but here it is.
[quote]General
General discharges are given to service members whose performance is satisfactory but is marked by a considerable departure in duty performance and conduct expected of military members. Reasons for such a characterization of service vary, from medical discharges to misconduct, and are utilized by the unit commander as a means to correct unacceptable behavior prior to initiating discharge action (unless the reason is drug abuse, in which case discharge is mandatory). A commander must disclose the reasons for the discharge action in writing to the service member, and must explain reasons for recommending the service be characterized as General (Under Honorable Conditions). The service member is normally required to sign a statement acknowledging receipt and understanding of the notification of pending discharge memorandum. The person is also advised of the right to seek counsel and present supporting statements.
In addition, service members are required to sign documents acknowledging that "substantial prejudice in civilian life" may be encountered under a general discharge. Despite this, some personnel think because the discharge is described as general under honorable conditions, it is as good as or the same as an honorable discharge. Concerning VA disability and most other benefits that is true; however, a general discharge may preclude participation in the GI Bill, service on veteran's commissions, and other programs where a fully honorable discharge is required.[/quote]
[editline]20th December 2012[/editline]
I was thinking about a general discharge with other than honorable conditions. My bad.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;38917878]Except he didn't. If he would, it would've been a part of the sentence from the he just received. Furthermore, OTHs are basically the lesser version of dishonorable discharge. Dishonorable discharges would be equivalent to a felony and lessening his chances of unemployment.
Other than honorable discharges is a discharge but without the long term consequences, so no, you got it entierly wrong.[/QUOTE]
He could receive a bad conduct discharge as well, which is much worse than an OTH.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38915783]Have you killed anyone yet, yes or no?
Because with your attitude, you sure as shit should not be handling a firearm.
'I'm fine with killing people' is something someone who has never shot at a living thing says.[/QUOTE]
The 8 men I killed, I had no problem with. I knew it was either them, me, or my mates. So I shot, and got 'em. Each one of them fired first.
Really, my small amount of PTSD stems more from seeing my friend die, and seeing some kid get blown up by a landmine.
The only real defense for this guys actions would be the old "don't hate the player, hate the game." remark. You have to expect stuff like this to happen when thrust somebody into the ass-end of nowhere and expect them to fight in a grueling counter-insurgency, so in a way this guy has been pushed under the bus.
I'm still of the mind that there never should have been a large military presence in Afghanistan in the first place, incidents like this should really reflect more on the actions and predicament of NATO as a whole, rather than the soldiers themselves.
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;38917902]He could receive a bad conduct discharge as well, which is much worse than an OTH.[/QUOTE]
Why does this even matter? These can only be given by a court-martial, and the court-martial has already issued its verdict; 30 days in prison. Speculating on what "he could've got" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
[QUOTE=pvt.jenkins;38917663]Pretty sure the taliban would do something muuuch worse to the corpse of a US serviceman/woman, like honestly guys the taliban are pretty brutal.
Not saying that this is right though, the whole urinating thing.[/QUOTE]
I've seen some shit the Taliban did to bodies, mate. Unbelievable. Gives me nightmares thinking about it.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;38917946]Why does this even matter? These can only be given by a court-martial, and the court-martial has already issued its verdict; 30 days in prison. Speculating on what "he could've got" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.[/QUOTE]
Kay, you're right.
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;38917943]The 8 men I killed, I had no problem with. I knew it was either them, me, or my mates. So I shot, and got 'em. Each one of them fired first.
Really, my small amount of PTSD stems more from seeing my friend die, and seeing some kid get blown up by a landmine.[/QUOTE]
In that case you were threatened, and according to you, 'they shot first' and so it's pretty much justified if we are going off on your post.
What isn't fine is going into combat with the mentality that you are completely fine with killing people. Not just killing people in the defense of you or your comrades, but killing people in general.
[editline]21st December 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Moustacheman;38917960]I've seen some shit the Taliban did to bodies, mate. Unbelievable. Gives me nightmares thinking about it.[/QUOTE]
Like what? I'm curious.
Unless you'd rather not talk about it.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;38917893]I hate quoting wikipedia, but here it is.
[editline]20th December 2012[/editline]
I was thinking about a general discharge with other than honorable conditions. My bad.[/QUOTE]
this is kinda proving our point
Lol read this title as "30 years in prision" and was about to bitch about that until I read it said "Days" instead
I think the punishment is heavy enough. The 30 days is alright, but a demotion is pretty heavy.
[QUOTE=Mike42012;38918003]
Like what? I'm curious.
Unless you'd rather not talk about it.[/QUOTE]
I'd much rather not talk about it, I'm waiting for a plane, and I'd actually like to sleep tonight.
But, let's just say the German ISAF lad I met, well, I didn't recognize him the next time I saw him.
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