First FemThor, now Captain African-America: Marvel's to repalce Steve Rogers with new, black Captain
133 replies, posted
Rhodes (black man) took over as Iron Man for a while in the (iirc) 80's. Nick Fury magically turned black at some point. There actually was a Captain America mini-series where a group of African Americans were given the super soldier serum and one of them became a black Captain America (I guess this wasn't cannon but it was a Marvel comic series).
No one should be getting upset about this. This stuff has happened before and honestly it makes sense for Falcon to hold the shield. I wouldn't be surprised if race wasn't even discussed when this decision was made. The writer of this article is making something out of nothing. Honestly, the fact that Cap's race is being discussed at all is the only real issue I'm seeing.
And to everyone saying "you can't just change a character like that" doesn't know anything about comic book creation. Go google image search what Beast from the X-men looked like in his first appearances and what he looks like now.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45417493]honestly if you're getting genuinely upset about the changes marvel are making then [B]You've Probably Got Brain Problems[/B]
yeah man we should just let media stagnate and never change anything because some people might not like it
grow up lol[/QUOTE]
What a compelling argument made like a real grown up lol.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;45417521]No, I'm directly addressing your point in my last sentence there.[/QUOTE]
Sigh. It doesn't matter if you create a different dimension for a whacky spin off, where one of the main character is replaced by some other version of it. People who liked the character that got replaced will still dislike it because they wanted to see more of that character. If DC would create a spinoff of batman where he dresses in pink and has dildos for ears, people who like the original batman would still dislike it despite it being a different universe.
People grow attached to their fav characters and don't want to see them killed, do something that doesn't suit them or have them replaced, regardless of the story being a spinoff in a different dimension or some shit. They want to see more of what they like.
Ehhh, I'm all for more diverse Superheroes (I am so sick of the "strong and awesome white guy" thing most heroes go for), but I think it's kind of lazy to take an existing hero and just go "well, he is black/female/etc now! Aren't we progressive?". Why not try to make an original character that already is a woman? Or black?
And besides, we all know that in a couple of months they are just going to pull the "multiverse" card, and everything will be back to normal.
[QUOTE=Colliseemoe;45417553]Rhodes (black man) took over as Iron Man for a while in the (iirc) 80's. Nick Fury magically turned black at some point. There actually was a Captain America mini-series where a group of African Americans were given the super soldier serum and one of them became a black Captain America (I guess this wasn't cannon but it was a Marvel comic series).
No one should be getting upset about this. This stuff has happened before and honestly it makes sense for Falcon to hold the shield. I wouldn't be surprised if race wasn't even discussed when this decision was made. The writer of this article is making something out of nothing. Honestly, the fact that Cap's race is being discussed at all is the only real issue I'm seeing.
And to everyone saying "you can't just change a character like that" doesn't know anything about comic book creation. Go google image search what Beast from the X-men looked like in his first appearances and what he looks like now.[/QUOTE]
Rhodes took over as Iron Man when Tony Stark lost Stark Industries and became super addicted to drugs. Other than that he's usually War Machine.
Nick Fury is black in the Ultimate Marvel universe. In the main universe (616) he's still a white guy. In fact in the Ultimate Universe he was made to look exactly like Samuel L Jackson because he was set to play Fury in the films. Tony Stark also bears a close resemblance to Robert Downey Jr.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;45417825]Rhodes took over as Iron Man when Tony Stark lost Stark Industries and became super addicted to drugs. Other than that he's usually War Machine.[/QUOTE]
I'm not current on Cap but how is that really any different from what's happening here?
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;45417825][B]Rhodes took over as Iron Man when Tony Stark lost Stark Industries and became super addicted to drugs. Other than that he's usually War Machine.[/B]
Nick Fury is black in the Ultimate Marvel universe. In the main universe (616) he's still a white guy. In fact in the Ultimate Universe he was made to look exactly like Samuel L Jackson because he was set to play Fury in the films. Tony Stark also bears a close resemblance to Robert Downey Jr.[/QUOTE]
Is that not basically the same as what is happening now? It's not like they are making Steve Rogers black, he is just having someone else do his job.
[QUOTE=riki2cool;45416925]Next up: Spiderman decides to come out of the closet as a transexual[/QUOTE]
Shhh, don't give them ideas.
[editline]17th July 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45417493]honestly if you're getting genuinely upset about the changes marvel are making then You've Probably Got Brain Problems
i'd rather they make small changes here and there like this than leave the characters the same forever. plus it's pretty obvious they're making it so they have more options for the characters in their respective movies in the future. like if the actors decide they don't want to play the same characters any more they don't have to recast the same part, but can instead change over to one of the other characters instead of having to do what they did with the hulk and just change the actors and have everyone in the universe be like "lol yep they're the same person whatever"
[editline]17th July 2014[/editline]
yeah man we should just let media stagnate and never change anything because some people might not like it
grow up lol[/QUOTE]
You're right, hitler should be known as a jew loving woman :D, I mean, it's progressive and that way the media doesn't stagnate.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;45416951]So are we calling him Captain Falcon or what[/QUOTE]
what a badass name
Clearly attempting to be progressive doesn't count unless you're introducing a completely new character in a completely new role, obviously.
Sure, having a new character take on the role of Captain America may sell far, far better, but it's the principle of the thing dammit!
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45417579]What a compelling argument made like a real grown up lol.[/QUOTE]
at least I'm actually trying to make an argument instead of doing what you're doing and just saying "b-b-but people don't like change so things should never change" over and over again :v:
[QUOTE=Kinversulath;45418325]Clearly attempting to be progressive doesn't count unless you're introducing a completely new character in a completely new role, obviously.
Sure, having a new character take on the role of Captain America may sell far, far better, but it's the principle of the thing dammit![/QUOTE]
yeah but creating a brand new superhero that isn't a white guy will make most of comic readers ignore it precisely because it [I]isn't[/I] the same shit again (consumer racial/sex bias non withstanding), it's like the realistic war shooter market, developers can try making new IPs and innovate, but whatever gets made is usually ignored because it's unfamiliar and everyone gets back to playing the newest call of duty. it makes more sense to change the already existing thing that we know people are gonna pay attention to.
let's not forget that marvel are a business first and foremost, and they want their shit to sell. you could argue that they're just "pandering" to SJWs but that's a moot point considering ALL businesses do is pander to their customers because, you know, they wouldn't buy their product otherwise? getting up in arms about it now is stupid considering that's literally all they've ever done.
we [I]know[/I] they're doing this for money, but it's still good because as it stands, superheros are samey and rehashed as fuck.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45418913]at least I'm actually trying to make an argument instead of doing what you're doing and just saying "b-b-but people don't like change so things should never change" over and over again :v:[/QUOTE]
1. Insulting does not equal making an argument.
2. I was explaining the reason why people might dislike it to someone who didn't understand their point of view.
3. I never said things should never change. I don't care about the character. It's their work so they can do what they want with it. I do however have an opinion that it's pretty cheap to change characters like that instead of making new ones, especially in the name of political correctness.
4. You have terrible reading comprehension, putting words in my mouth and adding lol or :v: at the end of your "arguments" doesn't help your case.
[QUOTE=zeldar;45417341]Wow that last panel is hilarious considering how the Flash's mom was murdered when he was only a child.[/QUOTE]
Can't you really blame him for not knowing anything about [I]Flash?[/I]
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45417244]New character as in, this new character is going to be pretty much like that other hero we've had before but it's not going to be a straight white male this time.[/QUOTE]
are you from the future? how do you know how this character is gonna turn out?
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45419126]1. Insulting does not equal making an argument.
2. I was explaining the reason why people might dislike it to someone who didn't understand their point of view.
3. I never said things should never change. I don't care about the character. It's their work so they can do what they want with it. I do however have an opinion that it's pretty cheap to change characters like that instead of making new ones, especially in the name of political correctness.
4. You have terrible reading comprehension, putting words in my mouth and adding lol or :v: at the end of your "arguments" doesn't help your case.[/QUOTE]
"You have terrible reading comprehension"? You're deliberately not reading my posts in an effort to make yourself sound like the calm, collected, reasonable person and to make me out to be some drooling insult machine. If you'd actually read what I'd posted, you would've seen that I was pointing out that the point of view you're describing is pretty much redundant. They're not changing beloved characters, they're temporarily replacing them with new ones.
As previous posters have mentioned, there are already tons of black characters, female characters, gay characters, whatever. The media don't tend to recognise them at all, meaning that comic books are seen as predominantly white, predominantly straight, predominantly male, as if that's the way things should be. So Marvel are going out of their way to reimagine their most popular characters in different ways that will [I]force[/I] the media and the general public to pay attention. It's not "political correctness", it's a statement. They [I]know[/I] people will make a fuss about this stuff, and they're doing it regardless.
My point, if by this stage I really have to underline it for you, is that I fail to see how this is in any way a bad thing.
Hasn't the Falcon been Captain America before during the 90s?
This isn't the first time he has taken over the roll.
Personally I think this'll be a very interesting change. Falcon's set of skills and basically what makes him 'good' are different than Captain America's. They both have different styles of getting things done. I'm not completely up-to-date on the comics, but I'm pretty sure Falcon isn't essentially superhuman like the Captain is, so that in and of itself is an interesting change.
[QUOTE=Urafever;45419008]yeah but creating a brand new superhero that isn't a white guy will make most of comic readers ignore it precisely because it [I]isn't[/I] the same shit again (consumer racial/sex bias non withstanding), it's like the realistic war shooter market, developers can try making new IPs and innovate, but whatever gets made is usually ignored because it's unfamiliar and everyone gets back to playing the newest call of duty. it makes more sense to change the already existing thing that we know people are gonna pay attention to.
let's not forget that marvel are a business first and foremost, and they want their shit to sell. you could argue that they're just "pandering" to SJWs but that's a moot point considering ALL businesses do is pander to their customers because, you know, they wouldn't buy their product otherwise? getting up in arms about it now is stupid considering that's literally all they've ever done.
we [I]know[/I] they're doing this for money, but it's still good because as it stands, superheros are samey and rehashed as fuck.[/QUOTE]
I know, I was being facetious.
Personally I think having a black man take on the role of a character who is supposed to symbolize all that is great about America, a character who predates the Civil Rights Movement no less, is pretty cool.
[QUOTE=Swebonny;45417119]Okay, so why should I cry. Because he's black? I mean, if this is just another character within the universe taking the previous Captain America's spot, wot? It's not like he magically turned black or female like that Thor thing.[/QUOTE]
I don't really know much about Marvel lore, but don't Thor's powers come from the hammer?
"Whosesoever wields this hammer, if he be worthy, shall wield the power of Thor," ye? It reads like the hammer chooses Thor, not the other way around. Ignoring the masculine pronoun, if the hammer had no owner, and some lady walked over and tried to pick it up, and the hammer said, "yeah, this bird is some choice meat," then whammo, FemThor!
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;45419633]I don't really know much about Marvel lore, but don't Thor's powers come from the hammer?
"Whosesoever wields this hammer, if he be worthy, shall wield the power of Thor," ye? It reads like the hammer chooses Thor, not the other way around. Ignoring the masculine pronoun, if the hammer had no owner, and some lady walked over and tried to pick it up, and the hammer said, "yeah, this bird is some choice meat," then whammo, FemThor![/QUOTE]
Most of his powers in the mythology also arise from or are increased by from hammer and the other magical items in his possession (Meginjord the girdle, which doubles his strength, Jarngreipr the gloves, to handle his hammer properly, and the staff Gridalvodr, which saved his life once.) But Thor does, of course, have the goods, remember how the giants tried to trick him by challenging him to the three impossible tasks? even though he didn't complete them, they were scared shitless when he almost destroyed the world by picking up one paw of the kitten (which was actually Jormungand), and were terrified when he drank up most of the water in the ocean in the challenge where he was asked to empty a certain horn of ale.
Now make Wolverine gay with a love interest on Cyclops
Let's make Catwoman and Wonderwoman into guys.
The problem I have with this stuff isn't that they're suddenly changing everyone, but that it feels so fucking disingenuous and they're doing it all at once. It doesn't bother me too much either way but it is so phony. I'm used to this stuff from comics though.
[QUOTE=Silly Sil;45416966]Next up, Batman comes from a poor family.[/QUOTE]
the bat mobile is a crusty 1998 honda civic with 150,000 miles on the odometer, and his gadgets are a bunch of mcgivered togather stuff
[QUOTE=Sableye;45420327]the bat mobile is a crusty 1998 honda civic with 150,000 miles on the odometer, and his gadgets are a bunch of mcgivered togather stuff[/QUOTE]
that would be pretty cool to see actually
[QUOTE=Urafever;45420609]that would be pretty cool to see actually[/QUOTE]
Only if they rename him Poorman
[QUOTE=LeonS;45416846]i thought Bucky turned into captain america?
anyhow i dont see the issue, pretty sure the Falcon is as american as Steve is[/QUOTE]
The gun that killed Captain America sent him back in time instead of killing him.
I'm not making this up.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45419259]"You have terrible reading comprehension"? You're deliberately not reading my posts in an effort to make yourself sound like the calm, collected, reasonable person and to make me out to be some drooling insult machine. [/QUOTE]
You were throwing out sarcastic remarks mixed with personal attacks and acting like I said that "things should never change". There is no way to read your posts in any other way.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45419259]If you'd actually read what I'd posted, you would've seen that I was pointing out that the point of view you're describing is pretty much redundant. [/QUOTE]
Stop acting like you've actually made an actual argument before. You weren't poiting out anything, you said that the people with different opinion than you are brain damaged and need to grow up.
And yeah if you want you can say that personal taste is redundant because that's what it boils down to.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45419259]They're not changing beloved characters, they're temporarily replacing them with new ones.
[/QUOTE]
And it's perfectly within reason for people to dislike what the creators of fiction has done to established characters. Why are you insisting that everyone shoul love that change?
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45419259]
As previous posters have mentioned, there are already tons of black characters, female characters, gay characters, whatever. The media don't tend to recognise them at all, meaning that comic books are seen as predominantly white, predominantly straight, predominantly male, as if that's the way things should be. So Marvel are going out of their way to reimagine their most popular characters in different ways that will [I]force[/I] the media and the general public to pay attention. It's not "political correctness", it's a statement. They [I]know[/I] people will make a fuss about this stuff, and they're doing it regardless.
[/QUOTE]
Dude you just described political correctness and said it's not political correctness. That's the point that they are doing it solely because of comic books being seen as predominantly white, predominantly straight, predominantly male and now they want to be politically correct.
[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;45419259]
My point, if by this stage I really have to underline it for you, is that I fail to see how this is in any way a bad thing.[/QUOTE]
I haven't said it's a bad thing nor that they shouldn't do it so stop putting that in my mouth.
do you get off arguing trivial minutiae or are you just threadshitting on purpose
he thinks it's cool, you don't. fuck, that could've saved some time.
i swear people are getting gayer and gayer
"HE’S A MODERN-DAY MAN IN TOUCH WITH THE PROBLEMS OF THE 21ST CENTURY."
haha yeah ok
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