• CliffyB thinks Sony is 'playing us' and that the industry can't survive with used games.
    126 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Brt5470;41017032]It did. Um what? I thought I was taking a very simple approach to this, but that surprised me.[/QUOTE] point being you're going to have to go all out to even think about getting the attention of an average gamer who has hundreds of other games to choose between if you don't want the attention of your average gamer, then indie development is the way to go but that gives you waaaaaaay less money to work with unless you're already a recognized studio, which at that point a RE6 isn't possible
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017046]point being you're going to have to go all out to even think about getting the attention of an average gamer[/QUOTE] Which again, I think is the problem. The average gamer already has their games. Unless you are THE game that the average person buys like the conventional major FPS shooters, MMO, or RTS maybe, you have to put billions into it to break into that which I don't think Capcom has the ability to do now. I'm not disagreeing that it takes a lot of money, my problem is that their goal is off and they are aiming for something that is so fickle and just goes to the next thing. [QUOTE=Juniez;41017046]point being you're going to have to go all out to even think about getting the attention of an average gamer who has hundreds of other games to choose between if you don't want the attention of your average gamer, then indie development is the way to go but that gives you waaaaaaay less money to work with unless you're already a recognized studio, which at that point a RE6 isn't possible[/QUOTE] Exactly they have so much to choose from. Catering to the average gamer I think is the problem. I just was thinking of this episode: [url]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7405-Damn-Fine-Coffee[/url] Catering to the crowd that already has so many things to play is a bit of the problem I think
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41016713]still don't see anyone in this thread complaining about steam. it's such a one layered issue for so many people. honestly if they said "also because you can't sell games they are only 40 dollars" no one would give a shit[/QUOTE] Why does this argument always come up? Steam sales, you don't need used game sales when Steam sales are cheaper than any game in Gamestop will ever be
[QUOTE=Brt5470;41017071]Which again, I think is the problem. The average gamer already has their games. Unless you are THE game that the average person buys like the conventional major FPS shooters, MMO, or RTS maybe, you have to put billions into it to break into that which I don't think Capcom has the ability to do now. I'm not disagreeing that it takes a lot of money, my problem is that their goal is off and they are aiming for something that is so fickle and just goes to the next thing.[/QUOTE] which at that point you streamline, make yourself smaller, and close a bunch of studios and whoops that's a lot of jobs gone what a mess and then the gaming community would demonize you as a company who closes studios as soon as they become useless, killing their favourite childhood gaming franchises [QUOTE=The Baconator;41017076]Why does this argument always come up? Steam sales, you don't need used game sales when Steam sales are cheaper than any game in Gamestop will ever be[/QUOTE] because, as 'dedicated, loyal' gamers would say, [I]it's the principle![/I]
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017080] because, as 'dedicated, loyal' gamers would say, [I]it's the principle![/I][/QUOTE] uh I don't believe in that, I am case by case. Stop browsing NeoGaf so much
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017080]which at that point you streamline, make yourself smaller, and close a bunch of studios and whoops that's a lot of jobs gone what a mess[/QUOTE] So what is your solution, or do you think there is none. You think it's fine the way it is right now? And yes, if your games, as watered down as they become are not getting the sales you want, you scale back. ORRRR focus on a core audience that wants what they want. RE isn't really horror anymore it's just shooty shooty in green and orange.
[QUOTE=ashxu;41016230]Well then just stick to buying indie games then? [/QUOTE] Excluding the multiplayer part, I think what he/possibly I'd want is the professionalism and talent in the big studios applied to smaller and more diverse projects.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;41017101]So what is your solution, or do you think there is none. You think it's fine the way it is right now? And yes, if your games, as watered down as they become are not getting the sales you want, you scale back. ORRRR focus on a core audience that wants what they want. RE isn't really horror anymore it's just shooty shooty in green and orange.[/QUOTE] I'd say just raise game prices because it would give more funding to AAA studios who want/need it and it would also bring more attention to the (now even cheaper in relative terms) Indie games, which in turn gives them a bigger audience and hopefully more money But that's obviously a developer-focused approach. Anti-consumer, some would call it [editline]13th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=The Baconator;41017095]uh I don't believe in that, I am case by case. Stop browsing NeoGaf so much[/QUOTE] Not going to lie I've got no idea what that is
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017143]I'd say just raise game prices because it would give more funding to AAA studios who want/need it and it would also bring more attention to the (now even cheaper in relative terms) Indie games, which in turn gives them a bigger audience and hopefully more money But that's obviously a developer-focused approach. Anti-consumer, some would call it [/QUOTE] normally I wouldn't say that's so bad but then we'd have each Madden 201X be like $80 or some bs and say because they spend so much, development costs bigger than Avatar, so much work :v: [editline]13th June 2013[/editline] and still have 10 day 1 DLC's somehow
I like how he just keeps turning up releasing statements like anyone cares what he has to say. this is the person who describes himself as ''the tony stark of gaming''.
also non AAA games would be priced the same as insanely high budget games
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017143]I'd say just raise game prices because it would give more funding to AAA studios who want/need it and it would also bring more attention to the (now even cheaper in relative terms) Indie games, which in turn gives them a bigger audience and hopefully more money But that's obviously a developer-focused approach. Anti-consumer, some would call it [editline]13th June 2013[/editline] Not going to lie I've got no idea what that is[/QUOTE] Not only is it developer focused but it will likely sell logarithmically. An 80 dollar game will likely not cut number of sales by a third but likely much more than the increase in revenue from the extra price. Speaking purely from the business side.
I liked Cliffy when he was making Gears 1. It all changed when he asked people not to call him "Cliffy B" anymore, that dark day changed him. [editline]13th June 2013[/editline] [url]http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/21/cliff-bleszinski-is-done-being-cliffyb/[/url] :v:
[QUOTE=Brt5470;41017183]Not only is it developer focused but it will likely sell logarithmically. An 80 dollar game will likely not cut number of sales by a third but likely much more than the increase in revenue from the extra price. Speaking purely from the business side.[/QUOTE] Didn't hurt sales too much in the long run when we went from 50 to 60 - gamers aren't very good at the whole vote with your wallet thing (either that or they still believe its worth it) The other solution would be to have less people working on games in general, leaving only the most creative and talented but then firing so many people is kinda mean I guess it depends on how seriously you value your video game experience
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;41015741]His stance on used games makes sense, but I think he's conveniently ignoring the other option: Stop spending so much goddamn money on marketing and obscenely large development teams. The AAA market will always be important, but there comes a point where it's simply unsustainable. His comments about Sony 'playing us' just sounds like denial though. CliffyB seems to play the contrarian a lot, for better or worse.[/QUOTE] But then the game will be considered a flop if it only sells 5 million copies :((((
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017242] I guess it depends on how seriously you value your video game experience[/QUOTE] I feel like I am the only person on FP who doesn't value most games. People always make fun of a console saying "$XXX when I already got preexisting consoles + PC? Nah" and then like 2 games they like are announced and they must spend multiple hundreds on a console they previously disliked. For me I am not one of those boycotters, I just sorta don't care about most games anymore like when I was younger, other than a few multiplayers, sorta makes me feel bad but then I just think of all the money I save :v:
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017242]Didn't hurt sales too much in the long run when we went from 50 to 60 - gamers aren't very good at the whole vote with your wallet thing (either that or they still believe its worth it) The other solution would be to have less people working on games in general, leaving only the most creative and talented but then firing so many people is kinda mean I guess it depends on how seriously you value your video game experience[/QUOTE] I mean I get your point, but I think 50-60 is most of the limit for people. Not because it's an increase but because, holy shit 80 dollars that's a significant investment for people. Even when i was working at my old job and I had very little concern for money at the time, I would pause and really considering buying a new game on release, I'd only do it if I thought I could make some videos out of it to make back some cash. I think it's less about the increase and more of the rank. That's like two days worth of hours for people to work on most entry level jobs to afford a new game, hence moving to used games. So publishers could probably move to a higher initial price point, but I think used game sales would go up exponentially since more people can't justify the high price.
[QUOTE=Brt5470;41017273]I mean I get your point, but I think 50-60 is most of the limit for people. Not because it's an increase but because, holy shit 80 dollars that's a significant investment for people. Even when i was working at my old job and I had very little concern for money at the time, I would pause and really considering buying a new game on release, I'd only do it if I thought I could make some videos out of it to make back some cash. I think it's less about the increase and more of the rank. That's like two days worth of hours for people to work on most entry level jobs to afford a new game, hence moving to used games. So publishers could probably move to a higher initial price point, but I think used game sales would go up exponentially since more people can't justify the high price.[/QUOTE] I don't really buy games at release either because unfortunately video games take a lot of money to make and are super expensive, but then again I don't buy them used either - game prices go down by themselves just fine without the secondhand market's help At least in the gamestop that I go to it's only like five bucks cheaper to buy used and I would much rather support developers
[QUOTE=Juniez;41017340]I don't really buy games at release either because unfortunately video games take a lot of money to make and are super expensive, but then again I don't buy them used either - game prices go down by themselves just fine without the secondhand market's help At least in the gamestop that I go to it's only like five bucks cheaper to buy used and I would much rather support developers[/QUOTE] Sometimes too fast. I bought Crysis 3 on launch and 2 weeks later it was half off. And MP is horrible. I wish they just made the SP Longer and didn't bother with MP. I paid 80 bucks for Crysis 3 with all the trimmings and it took a lot of thought to make that decision and then they make a customer appreciation sale... by undervaluing the people who bought early.
CliffyB, here's what you need to do: Shut. The Fuck. UP! Used games do not hurt your business in any way whatsoever. So fuck off.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41016713]still don't see anyone in this thread complaining about steam. it's such a one layered issue for so many people. honestly if they said "also because you can't sell games they are only 40 dollars" no one would give a shit[/QUOTE] Consoles generally have the tradition of being easy-to-set-up "party consoles". My friends and I occassionally use them offline to play fighters at school.
Microsoft combats piracy and used games via restrictions, DRM, Kinectron 9000, etc. Sony draws people into their online shop with PS+ that beats retailers and pirates with low sales, free stuff and exclusive content. A.k.a. the Valve way of getting shit done. I wonder, I wonder.
[IMG]http://i6.minus.com/iGITEnMFd8ALJ.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=zugu;41019291][IMG]http://i6.minus.com/iGITEnMFd8ALJ.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] Yeah, fuck that guy with the statistics to back up his argument, who cares about evidence lol I don't get you guys, your solution to ballooning developer costs is just telling them to "spend less money"? That's like saying we'd have done better in the Afghanistan War if we just "killed more terrorists". Being a game developer is already hell, what with the awful hours and low wages, so they can't really lower their budgets without seriously cutting back on what they can put out. Watchdogs has a massive amount of hype behind it, and a lot of people are pointing to it as an amazing display of potential, but guess what? Without a ton of money behind it, it'd be on the technical level of GTA San Andreas, which while it was a good game, has aged incredibly shittily. Have you noticed there are a lot of stories of hardship in the industry right now? Like with Metro: Last Light, Dungeon Defenders, most EA games and various other devs like Cliff speaking about how shitty the industry is? That's because they're basically ran like sweatshops, and if consumers keep demanding bigger and better games while rejecting coping measures from publishers like higher prices or anti used game measures, we're gonna see another industry crash [editline]13th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;41018533]CliffyB, here's what you need to do: Shut. The Fuck. UP! Used games do not hurt your business in any way whatsoever. So fuck off.[/QUOTE] Uhm yes they do?
He dismisses those who say that game budgets should be reduced. Has he not noticed how costs have spiralled to the millions, and how selling 6 million units can be considered a flop (see Tomb Raider). Budgets [B]need[/B] to be reviewed, but taking it out on the consumer is not the answer.
[QUOTE=Vedicardi;41016713]still don't see anyone in this thread complaining about steam. it's such a one layered issue for so many people. honestly if they said "also because you can't sell games they are only 40 dollars" no one would give a shit[/QUOTE] We don't complain about steam because we don't need to. We already have. It doesn't change anything. Steam does need to allow secondhand sales though.[QUOTE=The Baconator;41017076]Why does this argument always come up? Steam sales, you don't need used game sales when Steam sales are cheaper than any game in Gamestop will ever be[/QUOTE] The principle of the thing. I bought it. I should be able to sell it. It's stupid that I can't. I probably never would actually use that function myself but I still think it should be there. Incidentally those steam sales are the only way I can afford to buy new games and buy food at the same time. They're great.
[QUOTE=JeanLuc761;41015741]His stance on used games makes sense, but I think he's conveniently ignoring the other option: Stop spending so much goddamn money on marketing and obscenely large development teams. The AAA market will always be important, but there comes a point where it's simply unsustainable. His comments about Sony 'playing us' just sounds like denial though. CliffyB seems to play the contrarian a lot, for better or worse.[/QUOTE] Well he seems to like being the devil's advocate. That said you need to keep one thing in mind. If one of thebig publishers stop spending on marketing only one thing will happen. They will get flattened by the other big ones.
Wouldn't retail game stores all close if there was no used game markets, i thought that their profits relies on used game sales.
just curious, what does CliffyB do now?
[QUOTE=bunnyspy1;41020214]just curious, what does CliffyB do now?[/QUOTE] Tweet. A lot.
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