Thousands sign petition to publicly hang West Virginia man accused of raping, murdering baby girl
248 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51171554]Well then maybe he shouldn't have raped a baby
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
"Aw wahh he'll be all sad! :("
Well tough titters. [B]Can't rehabilitate him[/B], can't kill him, so let him rot all by himself. He still gets to suckle off of taxpayer money for the rest of his life.[/QUOTE]
Well why not?
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
Damn merge
Even the guy would deserve it, it's still a public hanging.
In 2016, seriously? Just, no.
if you send him to prison hes gonna die by other prisoners. ether way he's gonna die if you look at it
[QUOTE=mastfire;51172010]if you send him to prison hes gonna die by other prisoners. ether way he's gonna die if you look at it[/QUOTE]
So try to make sure that shit didn't happen?
[QUOTE=Kegan;51171066]Help or not his life is pretty much over, you don't just reintegrate into society when something this massive hangs over your head.[/QUOTE]
this is pretty much my perspective. killing him or keeping him in prison forever has the same effect
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51172055]this is pretty much my perspective. killing him or keeping him in prison forever has the same effect[/QUOTE]
If your were in the same position you would not think that
[QUOTE=Megadave;51171453]Then life in prison it be. Point being, they shouldn't be allowed into normal society. They can't be helped, thats my point.[/QUOTE]
Who actually has said "THIS GUY SHOULD BE IN NORMAL SOCIETY"
No one.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51168781]Isn't the idea of rights that they can't be stripped away?[/QUOTE]
Rights most certainly can be stripped away. Its outlined in the US constitution.
Well that's fucked
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
And should be changed, like others have said, we should have a bottom line for treatment of people
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51172064]If your were in the same position you would not think that[/QUOTE]
if i were in the same position as he then i wouldn't expect my wants to be respected. i would've rejected society and in turn would expect society to reject me
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51172067]Who actually has said "THIS GUY SHOULD BE IN NORMAL SOCIETY"
No one.[/QUOTE]
SIRIUS did.
You know what
how about, instead of hanging him, instead of rehabing him, shit, lets not even put him in a normal prison, lets put him into an asylum and research how he thinks, why he thinks, how he acts, etcetc. Lets find out what made him do what he did so we can find out how we can prevent other people from becoming a child rapist before they do. This is assuming he's that far gone that we could learn from him, I mean.
Not even anything more extensive than asking questions would be needed, and seeing how he reacts to things. If I was mentally ill, I'd rather be researched silently and passively than thrown into the dirt. If I, lets say, had a voice in a head that told me to kill someone or some wild shit and I couldn't stop it, or had severe bipolarism like someone I'm related to, I'd BEG for them to help me and learn from me.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51172135]SIRIUS did.[/QUOTE]
Where? Where did he say that this guy shouldn't be punished, and should just be helped?
or is it just a strawman most of you construct to hate
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51172123]I doubt this very much[/QUOTE]
we'll never know for certain. i for one believe he has agency and thus responsibility for his actions.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51172162]Where? Where did he say that this guy shouldn't be punished, and should just be helped?
or is it just a strawman most of you construct to hate[/QUOTE]
Benjamin Taylor is innocent! #Justice4BenjaminTaylor #FreeBenjaminTaylor
[QUOTE=paul simon;51168642]The revenge bullshit isn't gonna get you anywhere.
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
Well of course he can't be rehabilitated when there's no good system in place for doing so.[/QUOTE]
you dont fucking deserve to be rehabilitated if you fucking do this, even if you could be.
I'm actually very happy that I've yet to see anyone say he deserves to be tortured to death
I'm happy that FP has finally grown out of that nonsense
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51172162]Where? Where did he say that this guy shouldn't be punished, and should just be helped?
or is it just a strawman most of you construct to hate[/QUOTE]
From the Scully thread.
[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51120464]Perfect, we'll reform him, and then he can go and play with kids at his new job as a junior high teacher, who knows, maybe he'll even have the privilege of teaching your daughter, or maybe your little cousins :)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SIRIUS in response;51120495]If succesfully reformed... sure[/QUOTE]
That constitutes as putting him back into the normal society, doesn't it? And before you go "oh but that's from another child murderer thread", his opinions remain the same every time.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51172210]Having responsibility doesnt mean being willing to die
You are underestimating the instinct of self-preservation.[/QUOTE]
i wasn't saying i would be willing to die, i was saying i would not expect society to care about my wants if i were caught for doing what this guy may have done. whether that be put me to death or in prison forever, i wouldn't expect my wants to have any effect on what happens to me
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51172227]From the Scully thread.
That constitutes as putting him back into the normal society, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]
If and only if rehabilitated, till then he should be in prison
[QUOTE=Govna;51171419]This is idiotic. Nowhere did I say that they would be for a public execution, that's a nonsense claim by you. I said that they would be in favor of capital punishment. And no, for the record, you're wrong to claim that public execution "goes against the Constitution"; historically, we executed people in public (like every other country at the time did) well into the 1930s. We stopped because it was [i]considered[/i] to be in bad taste, Kentucky being the last state deciding to conduct executions privately (interestingly, the Governor of Kentucky regretted this afterwards). But that's totally irrelevant to my point since I'm not even saying this guy should be executed publicly, and I made sure to be very clear about that in my original post-- so unless you just have trouble reading, not sure where you picked up the idea that I was in favor of having him executed publicly from. And it's not an appeal to emotion; fact for fact, this is what they have to go through when they do their jobs. It's more than horrific, it's very inconvenient for them to have to deal with for reasons that shouldn't be difficult to imagine. In fact, a lot of them suffer from PTSD, depression, and other mental disorders as a result-- like soldiers who have to see death and killing on a regular basis. You can call that an appeal to emotion all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that this is just what happens and what it is like. It's easy to make judgement calls about things you have no experience with when you're a keyboard warrior, my point is simply that the people who actually do this stuff for a living don't care about you and your uneducated, irrelevant opinions. And actually, these people can be called in to testify in court about the nature of the crime, but since you're also claiming stuff about the law that's completely wrong, I'm not surprised you don't know this; the material they collect in the course of doing their jobs (evidence, I mean) is of course admissible in addition to them being allowed to attest to the nature of the crime (as in they're allowed to make statements about whether it was particularly heinous/gruesome, which makes sense given that, you know, this is part of how justice works, and they have a professional background dealing with this stuff).
And no, sorry, these people are still very much a threat even when they're incarcerated. They kill and injure people in prisons all the time, staff as well as other inmates. They also have a habit of tearing things up and causing trouble. Then when they're stuffed into solitary confinement or restrained somehow to keep them from doing this, people like you come along and claim that that's an inhumane way to treat them. OR, although it's rare, they manage to get out and hurt or kill somebody in the time they're free. In fact, that's what happened when Ted Bundy was initially picked up in Colorado in 1977; it happened twice, and in the time he was free after his second successful escape, he killed three more people and severely injured two others (one of which was left permanently disabled because of how badly he smashed her head in). Just a few years ago, there were three inmates who escaped from prison down in Arizona who killed a couple vacationing in New Mexico after they got out so they could steal their car (they also robbed them). After that, they got into a shootout with police, but fortunately nobody died. They were in prison in the first place for murder. It's almost like these people are just plain dangerous...
But whatever. Your mind is made up, and you're sold on your opinion regardless of the facts. There's nothing anybody can do to make a person who doesn't want to listen and learn something listen and learn. Again, just know that the people who actually matter and who actually deal with this stuff don't care in any case what you've got to say.
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
Okay, since you're an expert, you help him then.[/QUOTE]
I never actually said you were in favor of public execution. That would be a pretty dumb thing to say considering you said you weren't in favor of public execution. I was discussing the highly emotionally charged people that you were defending who were calling for this man's life, many of whom by public execution.
Sorry bud but you saying that this isn't an appeal to emotion while continuing to repeatedly appeal to emotion and even go so far as to say that these people can even go so far as to suffer from mental disorders (which further reinforces the idea that these people are not objective and should not be passing judgement). Maybe for your next post you can tap your heels together three times and say "I'm not appealing to emotion!" Obviously people of certain professions can testify in court but they still do not pass judgement and do not make the call on who lives or who dies.
I never claimed to be against solitary, nor do I care if he is in solitary especially if it means protecting others in prison or whatever mental facility he may be placed in. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here though, and assume you weren't really accusing me specifically of saying those claims.
I also like how you site weird edge cases about people escaping from prison and doing more damage while dismissing innocent people being executed as being weird edge cases.
But yeah these posts are great reading, keep them up.
"im not appealing to emotion h-honest! th-these people have ptsd! y-youre just a keyboard warrior! (man, i sure got him!)" lmao I genuinely can't wait to see what other inane drivel you spew out next.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;51172212]you dont fucking deserve to be rehabilitated if you fucking do this, even if you could be.[/QUOTE]
Rehabilitation should be for everyone, regardless of subjective opinions on whether or not they "deserve" it.
When you misinterpret [I]rehabilitation[/I] with [I]retaliation[/I]. I always read words wrong when I read, why is that happening?
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
Google says early dementia, I say fuck Google.
[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;51172227]From the Scully thread.
That constitutes as putting him back into the normal society, doesn't it? And before you go "oh but that's from another child murderer thread", his opinions remain the same every time.[/QUOTE]
so what someones been rehabilitated yeah I don't get the problem, should we just kill them the second they make an offense because that would make you feel better?
you can be all like "GOTCHA" all you want but you really haven't because under the context of someone being successfully rehabilitated then it's a different situation
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]I never actually said you were in favor of public execution.[/quote]
I never said that you said I was. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to follow along with.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]That would be a pretty dumb thing to say considering you said you weren't in favor of public execution.[/quote]
Yeah, it would be. But again, I never said that you said I was.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]I was discussing the highly emotionally charged people that you were defending who were calling for this man's life, many of whom by public execution.[/quote]
Nowhere did I say that they would be in favor of a public execution. I spoke strictly of the current capital punishment system we have today. They are in favor of the system we currently have. I brought it up because this discussion devolved into the tired, old "pro vs. anti-death penalty" shit we've heard plenty of times before.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]Sorry bud but you saying that this isn't an appeal to emotion while continuing to repeatedly appeal to emotion and even go so far as to say that these people can even go so far as to suffer from mental disorders (which further reinforces the idea that these people are not objective and should not be passing judgement). Maybe for your next post you can tap your heels together three times and say "I'm not appealing to emotion!" Obviously people of certain professions can testify in court but they still do not pass judgement and do not make the call on who lives or who dies.[/quote]
No, I'm stating fact for fact that this is what goes on with them. And this is how our justice system works. Juries are not meant to function like emotionally-devoid robots; I don't know where people are getting this idea from. Judges are not meant to function like this either. Cops, lawyers, etc. also do not work this way. Strange as it may seem, human beings have emotions, these emotions are perfectly natural, and they are also perfectly relevant and worthy of consideration when it comes to how our society operates and how we react under controlled circumstances-- especially when it comes to passing sentencing for heinous crimes (heinous crimes are in fact legally defined, FYI, even though they're subjective). It's a straightforward matter: they are experts on the subject because they deal in it all the time (it's their job), they know more about it than most people do (especially the ones who try to argue that their first-hand experiences are, for no actual reason, irrelevant), therefore their opinion and professional input matters more than your average person's does. Again, I don't care if you like this or not, and neither do the people who actually deal with this stuff on a consistent basis as part of their job; that's just how it is.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]I never claimed to be against solitary,[/quote]
Other people have. I was speaking in reference to them. They've done it in this thread, they've done it in other threads. And their opinion is stupid. Again, it comes from the fact that they have no first-hand experience dealing with dangerous individuals. They've got no hands-on education with this subject, nor do they have a formal education with it either. In other words, they just don't know what they're talking about.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]nor do I care if he is in solitary especially if it means protecting others in prison or whatever mental facility he may be placed in.[/quote]
How do you reconcile this mindset with the people who disagree with you that are on your side (against the death penalty I mean)? They claim it's torture and that it's inhumane. I'm trying to get a feel for your thought process here.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]I also like how you site weird edge cases about people escaping from prison and doing more damage[/quote]
They're not "weird edge cases", they're perfect examples of why this idea you brought up that "once they're convicted and imprisoned, they're no longer a danger" is complete nonsense. It's not uncommon for them to attack other people inside prison (inmates as well as staff members), to tear shit up and cause problems for no other reason than because they can, etc. I specifically mentioned cases with escapees because that's the worst case scenario, that they break out and start hurting innocent people again, and because it destroys the idea that they won't ever be a problem again. It's by no means the only critique of that argument, because as I also just said there's all the instances of them doing terrible things in prison that proves they are in fact still a threat. It boils down to this: if they're alive, then they are a threat; if they're dead, then it's impossible for them to be a threat. The idea though that just because they're locked up they're no longer a threat is ridiculous however.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]while dismissing innocent people being executed as being weird edge cases.[/quote]
It actually doesn't happen as often as you and other people seem to think, and that's because (like I pointed out the first time) it takes a lot to go from being charged with a crime to being sentenced to death. In fact, if you look through public criminal records of people who were recently executed or recently sentenced and are currently awaiting execution, you'll find that they usually have a long, well-established criminal background. That's because (strange as it may sound to you and your ilk) the United States doesn't believe in handing out the death penalty like it's not a big deal, and this has especially been true since the introduction of modern investigative forensic techniques. There are historical examples of innocent people being executed, but the idea that this is happening all the time today is bullshit, and the reason why it's not happening all the time is thanks to (again) advanced, modern investigative techniques.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;51172254]But yeah these posts are great reading, keep them up.
"im not appealing to emotion h-honest! th-these people have ptsd! y-youre just a keyboard warrior! (man, i sure got him!)" lmao I genuinely can't wait to see what other inane drivel you spew out next.[/QUOTE]
Sure, I mean I'm having fun with this. Not only do you not understand that our justice system isn't run like it's being administrated by a bunch of fucking Vulcans/emotionless robots, you also don't know how capital punishment sentencing works, the problems with incarcerating dangerous individuals, all the resources that have to be diverted into caring for those same dangerous individuals, etc. You have no first-hand experience with any of this stuff (cleanup and all that basic shit aside that I talked about earlier with regards to the crimes themselves, you don't even have experience with the logistical side of things-- especially incarceration), so you truthfully don't know what you're talking about... and yet you're still arguing what we should and shouldn't be doing. That's quite entertaining. I know the people who actually deal with this stuff for a living find it just as amusing when people who don't know anything about it start lecturing about it. You could be a politician with that kind of behavior lol.
What's the end game guys? Like so many of you talk "oh he needs help" but then what? We give him help and release him?
"Hey I'm Steve, your new neighbor. Oh little side note, I raped a baby. Anyways got alot to do today bye!"
Or keep him locked up, so he can live a comfortable life in a cell with 3 meals a day, and medical care.
I always thought it was a money thing, that lethal injection cost a shit ton. I mean this is pretty cheap ain't it? Rope and a some wood.
(and before anyways thinks I'm taking away from your opinion or trying to disrespect I'm not, it just I don't share that idea that all life is equal, and your actions determine your worth in this life. If you do bad things like this you're kinda a worthless meat sack.)
[QUOTE=Govna;51172626]I never said that you said I was. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to follow along with.
Yeah, it would be. But again, I never said that you said I was.
Nowhere did I say that they would be in favor of a public execution. I spoke strictly of the current capital punishment system we have today. They are in favor of the system we currently have. I brought it up because this discussion devolved into the tired, old "pro vs. anti-death penalty" shit we've heard plenty of times before.
No, I'm stating fact for fact that this is what goes on with them. And this is how our justice system works. Juries are not meant to function like emotionally-devoid robots; I don't know where people are getting this idea from. Judges are not meant to function like this either. Cops, lawyers, etc. also do not work this way. Strange as it may seem, human beings have emotions, these emotions are perfectly natural, and they are also perfectly relevant and worthy of consideration when it comes to how our society operates and how we react under controlled circumstances-- especially when it comes to passing sentencing for heinous crimes (heinous crimes are in fact legally defined, FYI, even though they're subjective). It's a straightforward matter: they are experts on the subject because they deal in it all the time (it's their job), they know more about it than most people do (especially the ones who try to argue that their first-hand experiences are, for no actual reason, irrelevant), therefore their opinion and professional input matters more than your average person's does. Again, I don't care if you like this or not, and neither do the people who actually deal with this stuff on a consistent basis as part of their job; that's just how it is.
Other people have. I was speaking in reference to them. They've done it in this thread, they've done it in other threads. And their opinion is stupid. Again, it comes from the fact that they have no first-hand experience dealing with dangerous individuals. They've got no hands-on education with this subject, nor do they have a formal education with it either. In other words, they just don't know what they're talking about.
How do you reconcile this mindset with the people who disagree with you that are on your side (against the death penalty I mean)? They claim it's torture and that it's inhumane. I'm trying to get a feel for your thought process here.
They're not "weird edge cases", they're perfect examples of why this idea you brought up that "once they're convicted and imprisoned, they're no longer a danger" is complete nonsense. It's not uncommon for them to attack other people inside prison (inmates as well as staff members), to tear shit up and cause problems for no other reason than because they can, etc. I specifically mentioned cases with escapees because that's the worst case scenario, that they break out and start hurting innocent people again, and because it destroys the idea that they won't ever be a problem again. It's by no means the only critique of that argument, because as I also just said there's all the instances of them doing terrible things in prison that proves they are in fact still a threat. It boils down to this: if they're alive, then they are a threat; if they're dead, then it's impossible for them to be a threat. The idea though that just because they're locked up they're no longer a threat is ridiculous however.
It actually doesn't happen as often as you and other people seem to think, and that's because (like I pointed out the first time) it takes a lot to go from being charged with a crime to being sentenced to death. In fact, if you look through public criminal records of people who were recently executed or recently sentenced and are currently awaiting execution, you'll find that they usually have a long, well-established criminal background. That's because (strange as it may sound to you and your ilk) the United States doesn't believe in handing out the death penalty like it's not a big deal, and this has especially been true since the introduction of modern investigative forensic techniques. There are historical examples of innocent people being executed, but the idea that this is happening all the time today is bullshit, and the reason why it's not happening all the time is thanks to (again) advanced, modern investigative techniques.
Sure, I mean I'm having fun with this. Not only do you not understand that our justice system isn't run like it's being administrated by a bunch of fucking Vulcans/emotionless robots, you also don't know how capital punishment sentencing works, the problems with incarcerating dangerous individuals, all the resources that have to be diverted into caring for those same dangerous individuals, etc. You have no first-hand experience with any of this stuff (cleanup and all that basic shit aside that I talked about earlier with regards to the crimes themselves, you don't even have experience with the logistical side of things-- especially incarceration), so you truthfully don't know what you're talking about... and yet you're still arguing what we should and shouldn't be doing. That's quite entertaining. I know the people who actually deal with this stuff for a living find it just as amusing when people who don't know anything about it start lecturing about it. You could be a politician with that kind of behavior lol.[/QUOTE]
So are you saying you do have lots of first hand experience to be making these claims with
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51172638]What's the end game guys? Like so many of you talk "oh he needs help" but then what? We give him help and release him?
"Hey I'm Steve, your new neighbor. Oh little side note, I raped a baby. Anyways got alot to do today bye!"
Or keep him locked up, so he can live a comfortable life in a cell with 3 meals a day, and medical care.
I always thought it was a money thing, that lethal injection cost a shit town. I mean this is pretty cheap ain't it? Rope and a some wood.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, lets just kill them the second they're convicted because convictions have never been wrong and you can totally just raise a corpse from the dead and say "sorry we killed you and you were innnocent, our bad"
Fuck dude
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51172638]What's the end game guys? Like so many of you talk "oh he needs help" but then what? We give him help and release him?
"Hey I'm Steve, your new neighbor. Oh little side note, I raped a baby. Anyways got alot to do today bye!"
Or keep him locked up, so he can live a comfortable life in a cell with 3 meals a day, and medical care.
I always thought it was a money thing, that lethal injection cost a shit town. I mean this is pretty cheap ain't it? Rope and a some wood.[/QUOTE]
Can you give us an argument against it?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51172639]So are you saying you do have lots of first hand experience to be making these claims with
[editline]8th October 2016[/editline]
Yeah, lets just kill them the second they're convicted because convictions have never been wrong and you can totally just raise a corpse from the dead and say "sorry we killed you and you were innnocent, our bad"
Fuck dude[/QUOTE]
Don't twist my words sillybilly. I never said lets just convict him and kill him. If the evidence pointed to him (remember he raped a baby, I'm sure he left some sperm) So obviously they have him trapped, so...I don't get where any of those words came, and why you twisted my words.
[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;51172664]Don't twist my words sillybilly. I never said lets just convict him and kill him. If the evidence pointed to him (remember he raped a baby, I'm sure he left some sperm) So obviously they have him trapped, so...I don't get where any of those words came, and why you twisted my words.[/QUOTE]
because you're ignorant about where the cost of the death penalty comes from
It comes from the appeals process. Without that, then yes, we might as well convict and kill because if there is no appeals, that's what you're fucking doing.
It's not putting words in your mouth. It's you not having a clue what words you have in your mouth already.
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