[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699215]It's not their job to enforce fear into people, but that law does that...
It's only striking fear into criminals who may become worthy of the death penalty anyway, I don't see the negative side of that.[/QUOTE]
That's an insightful comment, I agree more or less completely.
Why shouldn't people be afraid of the law? Fear is a very powerful emotion, I can understand people obviously fearing a government gaining that sort of power. But you have to understand the in most governments. The judicary body is seperate from the political body. If they're connected, that's a failing in a fair system of government.
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699215]It's not their job to enforce fear into people, but that law does that...
It's only striking fear into criminals who may become worthy of the death penalty anyway, I don't see the negative side of that.[/QUOTE]
No, the possibility that the police have the ability and the right to kill you, regardless of the situation, frightens any sane person.
ESPECIALLY California. Ask any black or latino man living in South Central LA if they like the notion of police being able to execute people.
[editline]02:07AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19699260]Why shouldn't people be afraid of the law?[/quote]
Uhm, because the whole purpose and ideology behind laws is suppose to make people feel and know that they are SAFE, that they are FREE and they can live their lives WITHOUT fear. Not make people fear for their lives from BOTH criminals AND the government.
[QUOTE=Trotsky;19689612]I don't know about you, buy my libertarian blood makes me wish this was a crime punishable by death[/QUOTE]
I thought libertarians wanted taxing punishable by death.
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19699150]I understand that murder is wrong, but I'm also mature enough to know that sometimes it's necessary. Sometimes we have to do things that we don't like.[/quote]
no that's not maturity, that's you being an animal
[editline]08:09AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=lmaoboat;19699280]I thought libertarians wanted taxing punishable by death.[/QUOTE]
well my trolling just punched me back in the face :C
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699237]Not an answer. WHY is DEATH, specifically, necessary?
Why not become a cop? Why not find a badge? Why not become a lawyer or a leader and actually TRY to seek justice legitimately?
WHY is it necessary to strangle people to death?[/QUOTE]
Those solutions are not exactly accessible. Please think about what you are saying, these vigilantes are presumably poor and ill-educated. Considering mexico isn't the richest of countries. I could be wrong, but it is logical to assume at this point that going into law school would not be a reasonably easy solution.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699262]No, the possibility that the police have the ability and the right to kill you, regardless of the situation, frightens any sane person.
ESPECIALLY California. Ask any black or latino man living in South Central LA if they like the notion of police being able to execute people.[/QUOTE]
Police open fire if protection of them or someone else is required, that's how it's supposed to work anyway, corruption is a tottaly different argument. I'm talking about the death penalty as in, you are arrested and then go through a trial and then depending on your crime it is decided whether you get the death penalty or not.
[QUOTE=Trotsky;19699283]no that's not maturity, that's you being an animal
[editline]08:09AM[/editline]
well my trolling just punched me back in the face :C[/QUOTE]
Whatever, maybe I am an animal. I hope I never get into a situation where I have to kill another human being. I hope you don't either.
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19699319]Those solutions are not exactly accessible. Please think about what you are saying, these vigilantes are presumably poor and ill-educated. Considering mexico isn't the richest of countries. I could be wrong, but it is logical to assume at this point that going into law school would not be a reasonably easy solution.[/QUOTE]
You neither have to be rich nor educated to be a good leader. They can deter crime without killing people.
[editline]02:15AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699352]Police open fire if protection of them or someone else is required, that's how it's supposed to work anyway, corruption is a tottaly different argument. I'm talking about the death penalty as in, you are arrested and then go through a trial and then depending on your crime it is decided whether you get the death penalty or not.[/QUOTE]
And since the advent of DNA forensics we have discovered dozens and dozens of cases in which a now-executed inmate was wrongfully convicted.
Just because you aren't a criminal doesn't make you safe.
Not to mention how STUPID an idea it is to give a government the right to kill its own people.
WE, the people, are above our government. WE sign their checks. WE are SUPPOSED to be in charge. When they have the ability to murder us, our power over them is strained.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699360]You neither have to be rich nor educated to be a good leader. They can deter crime without killing people.[/QUOTE]
Not many people posess those qualities, and the chances are even less people pay attention to those qualities.
Even a child understands death. Yes, crime can be detterred without killing people. But not always. Some people never learn.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699360]You neither have to be rich nor educated to be a good leader. They can deter crime without killing people.
[editline]02:15AM[/editline]
And since the advent of DNA forensics we have discovered dozens and dozens of cases in which a now-executed inmate was wrongfully convicted.
Just because you aren't a criminal doesn't make you safe.
Not to mention how STUPID an idea it is to give a government the right to kill its own people.
WE, the people, are above our government. WE sign their checks. WE are SUPPOSED to be in charge. When they have the ability to murder us, our power over them is strained.[/QUOTE]
You want everyday people to be in charge of a country?
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699422]You want everyday people to be in charge of a country?[/QUOTE]
[I]It's not like that's how it's suppose to be.[/I]
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19699413]Not many people posess those qualities, and the chances are even less people pay attention to those qualities.
Even a child understands death. Yes, crime can be detterred without killing people. But not always. Some people never learn.[/QUOTE]
If everyone is a killer, everyone is a leader.
[editline]02:18AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699422]You want everyday people to be in charge of a country?[/QUOTE]
That's sort of the point of republican democracy.
Government is accountable to its people, not the other way around.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699437]If everyone is a killer, everyone is a leader.
[editline]02:18AM[/editline]
That's sort of the point of republican democracy.
Government is accountable to its people, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
Ok so if you want the people to be in charge and not the government do you support vigilantes?
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699437]If everyone is a killer, everyone is a leader.
[editline]02:18AM[/editline]
That's sort of the point of republican democracy.
Government is accountable to its people, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
The American government would not hesitate to order lethal force on it's own citizens, if the circumstances were dire.
I was going to rant a bit here about how the military is supposed to side with it's people. But this is conjecture and I doubt I know enough about the subject matter to offer a worthwile opinion.
Anyway, yes. It is right to fear the government having the power to kill it's own citizens. But this fear is unfounded, when they are only killing serious criminals. You only need to start being afraid when they start killing people for minor crimes or trying to make freedom of speech itself a crime.
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699470]Ok so if you want the people to be in charge and not the government do you support vigilantes?[/QUOTE]
How is that in any way similar?
In a democracy, the majority decides right and wrong. Not some lone crazed gunman.
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699470]Ok so if you want the people to be in charge and not the government do you support vigilantes?[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between vigilantism and controlled populism.
[editline]02:24AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19699475]The American government would not hesitate to order lethal force on it's own citizens, if the circumstances were dire.[/QUOTE]
Uhh they would because there's about a million of their combatants and three hundred million of ours.
This is why we have the second amendment. They ain't killing ANYONE. The second they open up on civilians is the second an angry, armed mob is going to storm the city halls and capitol hill.
H'okay!
No more internet arguing, it never goes anywhere, no matter who's wrong or right!!!
[QUOTE=Melkor;19699510]How is that in any way similar?
In a democracy, the majority decides right and wrong. Not some lone crazed gunman.[/QUOTE]
The majority doesn't decide what's right, the majority decides upon whom they think would best represent them. And if they do a poor job they can be removed.
The majority cannot vote directly on most issues because it violates the protection of the minority that the Constitution guarantees.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19699559]The majority doesn't decide what's right, the majority decides upon whom they think would best represent them. And if they do a poor job they can be removed.
The majority cannot vote directly on most issues because it violates the protection of the minority that the Constitution guarantees.[/QUOTE]
Yes I understand that. But because it is ultimately us who decide who represents us. I consider that an indirect form of majority rule.
This is far beyond my area of 'expertise'. Yes, I think it's a bad idea for a government to be able to murder innocent citizens. I think it's fine for them to kill serious criminals though.
But like I said, justice and politics shouldn't even ever be related. Criminals should be punished, and the politicians should have no say at all in who is a criminal and what exactly is a crime. This should be left up to the people based on their morals and their logic.
Good night, or morning as it is now.
[QUOTE=Melkor;19699590]Yes I understand that. But because it is ultimately us who decide who represents us. I consider that an indirect form of majority rule.[/QUOTE]
It's controlled though. We have representatives because they do not have to abide exclusively by the current populist rage, and they have the ability to discern between legitimate concerns of the majority and potential abuses of the minority.
We do this so that we can maintain a free and secular state, as the majority is Judeo-Christian we are still a secular, non-theocratic state that protects the beliefs (or lack thereof) and rights of the minority instead of worrying about the desires and clamoring of the majority.
[editline]02:36AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19699613]This is far beyond my area of 'expertise'. Yes, I think it's a bad idea for a government to be able to murder innocent citizens. I think it's fine for them to kill serious criminals though.
But like I said, justice and politics shouldn't even ever be related. Criminals should be punished, and the politicians should have no say at all in who is a criminal and what exactly is a crime. This should be left up to the people based on their morals and their logic.[/QUOTE]
Morality is subjective. If we allow morality to hold sway in a court of law we will once again be executing homosexuals and stoning atheists.
The law is objective. We need lawmakers, lawyers and politicians to maintain this. This is their job, this is why we are not an anarchy. We cannot allow the masses to decide the fate of individuals, that defies the very definition of justice.
[QUOTE=Trotsky;19693071]what the fuck is a kira[/QUOTE]
It's an anime reference god damn you angry person
fuck
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;19699862]It's an anime reference god damn you angry person
fuck[/QUOTE]
I cursed once
you cursed twice
thesefore you're more angry
[QUOTE=Trotsky;19699888]I cursed once
you cursed twice
thesefore you're more angry[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, I love you.
Now you're more angry
Stop this hate and get along. Can't we all love each other?
[QUOTE=AngryAsshole;19698698]Death is clean, and allows people to move on. Life imprisonment, requires a guard to clean up and care for a criminal. Prisons are necessary, we can't just execute every convict. It's not right and it's probably not even logically possible.
Also, cutting off organs is pretty sadistic. At least if they're dead, they don't have to live mutilated.[/QUOTE]
To some criminals, death would mean freedom. Remember that.
[editline]08:19AM[/editline]
Whoa, wrong freaking page.
[QUOTE=Cypher_09;19699910]I'm sorry, I love you.
Now you're more angry[/QUOTE]
touche motha fucka
[QUOTE=HQRSE;19699550]H'okay!
No more internet arguing, it never goes anywhere, no matter who's wrong or right!!![/QUOTE]
It never goes anywhere because even if a person on the internet knows they are wrong, but still acts like a giant douche, you can't reach over and punch them in the face.
Only on Facepunch can a news article on drug crime turn into the deconstruction of a comic book.
[QUOTE=Lankist;19692923]This is how the Ku Klux Klan got started.
Yes the government can NEVER recoup. It will ALWAYS be weak and nobody should ever even TRY to enforce laws legitimately. No we should all be Batman and The Punisher and run around murdering innocent people on a whim, with no system of accountability or evidence and no method of appeal for wrongful punishment.
You are the dumbest person I've ever heard. Not only do you want these people to live in poverty, no that's not enough. They need to live in FEAR as well. They need to FEAR everyone on every street corner. Abiding by the law isn't enough, the vigilantes don't even abide by the law. They'd have to defend themselves against the vigilantes. They'd have to stockpile guns and go on an anti-vigilante vigilante raid.
Congratulations. You've just started a civil war, you tit. It'll be the Mexico Massacre. Nobody is to be trusted, shoot everyone who isn't your blood before they shoot you.[/QUOTE]
The Mexican government? I've never heard of such a thing.
You know, Mexico is practically a failed state. Don't know what a failed state is? Go look up Somalia or Afghanistan. Those are failed states, places with no government at all. In Mexico, the government can't do shit. The drug empires, the gangs, and the out of control crime control everything.
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